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So what does everyone think of the exhaustion condition to iron will?
I think a 75% reduction to grunts of pain was enough to nerf the perk the the exhaustion condition is not needed imo just remove it is unnecessary
But I want other opinion on the matter. Is this needed for iron will?
Comments
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Yes, since clearly it was too buggy to program in the breathing sound, and the footstep sounds only work if they feel like it killers deserve sound, simple as that
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It should have either been 75% reduction and works while exhausted or is 100% reduction but doesn't work when you're exhausted. It should never have been both. They went overboard with the perk changes, just like calm spirit.
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I think the perk was fine and people over exaggerated. It helped chases with the strong killers at the time (Nurse, Blight, Spirit) that a lot of times relied on sound to find out exactly where they were during chase. I liked it because it brought more mind gaming to chases. Anyone with decent headphones can hear you making noise now (even if you're playing a quiet character like Ace or Ada) and the perk deactivating while exhausted makes no sense to me at all. I know it won't be reverted but there's a reason almost no one brings it now unless they're trying new builds, messing around, or playing casually versus at a higher MMR.
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I think it should just have been the exhaustion condition, without the 25% nerf. Would've made it a quasi-exhaustion perk that's still strong, but also rules out the possibility of a surprise speed boost.
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I think it's dumb. Either make the character 100% quiet when not exhausted, or 75% quiet all the time.
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It was an overnerf imo. But with some exhaustion perks it's still usable. Just don't use it with sprint burst lol.
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Exactly this. BHVR still can’t figure out how to make reliable survivor noises, so iron will needed the nerf it got.
OTR is a much healthier version of the previous iron will, and people can use that if they want 100% reduced noises.
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It's fine. It's still a good perk. I use it with dead hard. If the killer finds me thru iron will then I still have dead hard as a conditional get out of jail free card and the exhaustion caveat doesn't matter. Iron will already served it's purpose.
People just got accustomed to an utterly busted crutch perk for years.
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Just more hand holding for BHVR and their precious killers.
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I was quite opposed to it at first, but it synergises greatly with DH, so I'm fine with it lol. But, before everyone raises their pitchforks to come at me, I only use that combo on Leon and Claire, because they're loud AF. Otherwise I don't really need to use it.
Combining it with other exhaustion perks is a bit more difficult, like SB and Overcome. I reckon it'll also be fine to use with Lithe, Balanced Landing and Head-On, in those instances you're usually in mid-chase anyways so being 75% more silent doesn't always matter.
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The old iron will was a good perk and didn't need gutting. It's useless now. Was my staple perk but now it nulls stealth whilst injured so have to use inner healing instead.
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I think it's the best outcome for the perk. Iron Will was poorly designed as previously constructed. It did way too much without any downsides and also caused bugs in every single patch. It's fair in its current form. Survivors have a trade off for the benefit, and it also doesn't completely delete a killer's power like Spirit.
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Personally, I think it's in a good state and the condition makes sense. If you've seen Otz's video on it or have used it yourself, you'll notice that the 75% reduced noise is actually very good at keeping your character almost completely silent, especially when crouching or in a locker. I don't think it should be 100% because for some reason it causes an audio bug that makes the survivor comepletely silent, even the breathing. The reason I think the condition makes sense is that Iron Will is meant more for hiding while the exhaustion perks are meant to prolong or escape a chase. If you could escape a chase completely unheard, then it'd be no different than the older Iron Will.
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I agree with this notion. It should've been one or the other, both were really overkill. Granted I still use it in some of my builds since it helps in some situations, but it's become pretty niche like most of the perks in the current roster.
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Plus otr isn't free, they don't really choose when to activate it, and it has limited use. Iron will was an infinite use and you could control how long its active for especially with healing items.
Off the record is just a much healthier perk for not making noises
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I think it’s fine. I thought IW was overnerfed at first, but after seeing it more I think it’s still a decent perk and I’ve still occasionally lost survivors because of it, although it’s definitely not as effective as it was before.
I don’t use it much myself though, I didn’t use it very often even before it got nerfed because it's just not my preference most of the time.
Yeah, but that was the problem with it. Silencing injured noises unconditionally, while certainly effective against the killers you mentioned, was never balanced, especially against Spirit who relies on sound more than any other killer, offering her little to no counterplay sometimes. Now maybe you could argue that was fine against old Spirit because she sometimes lacked meaningful counterplay herself, but that’s no longer the case. And it didn't just help against top-tier killers, it helped against everyone.
The current version now is more fair because it’s not 100%, and it loses utility when used with exhaustion perks, some of which are among the most powerful perks that survivors have available to them. I wouldn't want to see it nerfed any further though.
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Just like the nerf with DS, the devs were too heavy handed. They should have just left it alone. Not every meta perk on the survivors side needed butchering.
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Iron will is in a good place, 100% noise reduction with no penalty always felt really unfun, I also really like the exhaustion part in a thematic way, it really makes sense that after exerting yourself you would be louder and have to take a min to get back to normal.
Although thinking on it a bit more they could leave Iron will at 75% reduction remove the exhaustion bit and just apply the noise penalty directly to being exhausted. A straight 50% louder breathing/injured noises applied to the exhaustion effect at all times.
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It should’ve been either the 75% or exhaustion, not both
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Old Iron Will was fine and didn't need nerfed in the first place.
But in regards of the current Iron Will, it was way over nerfed. It should have been 100% until Exhausted or 75% but works while Exhausted. Not both. Or it could've been 100% and then when Exhausted it drops down to 50%.
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It should have been either of those, but not both Nerfs. Personally, I would gladly take Iron Will which makes Exhausted but 100% silent while Injured than anything else.
Basically the reduction already killed the Perk, everything else was overkill.
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I am actually fine with the double nerf. I do understand why they did it, BUT saying that I think they need to revert the changes they made to sound in patch 5.1 and go back to increases and decreases in sound be additive not multiplicative. Like if you have Iron will active and you are in a locker you should not be making grunts of pain. OR if you have Iron will and No Mither you shouldnt be making grunts of pain (its real quiet but its there).
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Nah it was one of the strongest perks in the game forever. It took basically no skill to use, and most of the time it was used to just w away from the tile. Did it really feel that good to just win a chase because the killer lost a 50/50 between mind gaming the tile and predicting W? It was just a poorly designed perk that people got way to used to running. It also always baffled me how the survivor perk to negate noise wasn't affected by stridor.
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i actually think that the disable when exhaustion effect is a really good idea to balance some powerful perks in the future. But i think it's gross overkill on iron will with the change to 75%
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I think it's fair
Iron Will is meant to be a stealth perk, not a chase perk so if you intend to combo it with chase oriented perks like DH or SB then there's anti synergy
Although it can have some use in chase still since the nerf, paired with something like Lucky Break for example
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agreed. it was the one meta perk i didnt have a problem with
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I don't think it was necessary. I'm more concerned about why Iron Will still exists as is when Off The Record still gives 100% silence.
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It sucks ass. They should remove the exhausted condition. Makes iron will next to useless if paired with dead hard, balanced landing etc.
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@Sava18 post is good summary of the perk. it made mindgames at risk to the killer and promote free shift-w time waste. I used to use iron will sometimes, but I do not use it anymore for precise reason that its not free value anymore. you need to build around the perk in order to get value out of it, but its not worth building around the perk over using an exhaustion perk. The exhaustion condition weakened the perk out of the meta. Survivor use Off the record now instead.
The equivalent perk on killer side that got changed that fell out of favour is Tinkerer. you barely see tinkerer similar to IW.
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Agreed that it didn’t need both mechanics for the nerf.
i still think Exhaustion should have gotten some mild negative effect on it’s own (likeGrunts of pain and breathing slightly louder) and take that effect off of IW.
IW with 100% noise reduction was stupid, especially since breathing was included, and 75% is fine - as soon as their bring the survs closer together (that’s still intended to come, right?)
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I must have missed reading about the CS nerf. But yep, they sure did. That's a choice, I guess.
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Calm Spirit got a buff not a nerf
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Thats the point 100% was op and they don't want a stealth perk to be a chase perk.
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Oh yh I don't want it to be 100% no pain grunts is OP. But it shouldn't be deactivated on exhaustion.
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Spirit can still track survivors with Iron Will. Injured noises aren't the only thing you can use to find survivors.
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Iron Will was over tuned, just like DS, Calm Spirit, and Eruption.
You get the point.
Someone already beat me to the point — Should have been 75% or 100% while not exhausted.
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The issue was that old Iron Will often deleted all survivor sounds depending on the patch. They wouldn't breath at all, healthy or injured.
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Footsteps, grunts of exertion, grass patches, corn (sometimes), scratch marks didn't exist when Iron Will was equipped?
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It's the only part of the nerf I hate
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I honestly still think the perk is really good. 75% reduction is still too quiet for the killer to hear over the chase music or even in general a lot of the time since sound is this game is scuffed to hell and back, and the exhaustion drawback is only really a thing for Sprint Burst users; everyone else can still get plenty of value out of the perk ESPECIALLY Dead Hard users due to the ability to save the perk for as long as needed.
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They said "all survivor sounds, depending on patch". That includes those things.
I don't want to bring up streamers, but Scott Jund did point out how IW also deleted all breathing when injured and the vocal sounds Survivors make when running. It did things that it wasn't supposed to do.
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Alright man I agree with you on most of this but look, I KNOW you didn't just say Botany Knowledge got gutted. That perk got HPYER buffed.
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You run Solidarity, right?
Do you think it was buffed massively because you run Botany and Solidarity together frequently?
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Bro, a full build? Run one duration addon and you're good. That -20% efficiency penalty is nothing in the face of how easy duration addons are to farm and how effective they are on their own, let alone when stacked. A brown duration addon on a green medkit guarantees a full self-heal at double the normal speed. Hell, you can run a yellow medkit and get a full self-heal off at +50% speed without using any addons.
And even if medkits were useless with Botany, which they absolutely are not, that one downside of medkits being less effective pales in comparison to being able to heal teammates 50% faster at all times, or being able to heal yourself at full speed or heal others at double speed without even using a medkit using Circle of Healing. New Botany is extremely good.
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No I do not. Botany Knowledge is just really good on its own. Botany makes Solidarity good, not the other way around.
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The Iron Will nerf was the only change that I really was upset with (DH change was the best and most necessary imo) and I don't think the perk needed this much of a nerf.
That being said, it can still be useful if you don't crutch on exhaustion perks and feel lost without them and it can be a lot of fun now as killers really do not expect you to be using it since the nerf. I get away with some crazy stuff with new IW
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I've used it without perks or items on other Survivors... it's really not as crazy as you think it is. I preferred to use it before the buff to return healing speeds to pre-healing speed nerf times, but I've used it now and I don't see a "really good effect". It's noticeable but not really good.
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This is how I feel about it as well, coming from a Killer main, who used to love Iron Will as a Survivor.
I STILL use it btw, in most of my builds, but I think it should have been exactly as you stated, 75% with exhausted, or 100% without exhausted, both is too much.
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I think it's fine. Iron will is still a really good perk as-is. Now you don't have an extra layer of safety after using an exhaustion perk, if you're using one (or the killer is running something like mindbreaker). Most survivors with iron will are really quiet, and even harder to hear if you're crouching or in a locker. I've used the perk pretty effectively on Ace.
I personally don't think infinite 100% silent survivors should ever be a thing, as it's a little silly from a gameplay perspective to injure someone and then not be able to hear them at all. Last I knew BHVR also hadn't fixed the bug where iron will made it so survivors didn't make normal breathing noises either. That said, I'm not too worried about OTR having it, as it's temporary, disabled in endgame, and functions as anti-tunnel so the survivor can stealth away.
Maybe my thoughts will change when they normalize survivor loudness across every character though.
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The +50% passive healing at all times leaves me staggered every time I see it in action even three patches later. No matter what my playstyle, no matter what build I’m running, SWF or solo, meme build or sweaty, I feel as if I’m outright gimping myself by not running Botany. A healing boost that big is huge on its own and the synergy with other perks is outright insane; healing perks that usually range from terrible to alright become great when used with Botany. Botany and Empathic Connection, for example, will completely shut down any and all antiheal builds outside of Distressing + Coulro + Sloppy on Wesker, and even then it’s still incredibly valuable.
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