Sometimes its the survivors own fault that their teamamte gets tunneled
Hear me out pls.
I know that tunneling is #########, especially hard tunneling and I try to avoid it as killer whenever possible cause I want everyone to have fun. But I also want to win and I'm not okay with just throwing my chances of winning away for no reason. So when I went to RPD there was a kate that I downed after a chase. When she got unhooked I went back to the hook and everyone brought themselves into position already.
The Jane who has shown me that she has balanced landing was standing on the balcony overlooking the entrance hall.
The quentin with lithe was standing next to the office loop ready to vault.
And the meg with sprint burst was camping the god pallett.
Just the previously hooked kate was sitting in the dead zone in the entrance and healing herself up. So ofc I went for her. And ofc I got the typical "OMG filthy tunneler" complaints afterwards. But in this case I feel like tunneling was justified. If u dont want ur teammate to be tunneled at least try to make it more attractive to be chased by the killer. Not do it like these 3 and stand with ur exhaustion perks next to beginning god loops and basically go "but now u have to chase me or ur a tunneler".
PS: this is not a threat against tunneling in general.I know hard tunneling exists and is unfun and a problem. I just want to point out that there are situations where I think tunneling is totally justified.
Comments
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True, most unhookers just run off and look confused when the Killer kills the one who is weakest.
Most survivors wont throw their life on the line for other survivors. Or they need more perks to do that more easily.
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I get your point, but I'd 100% go for one of the others. I mean, that's a scenario where I actually know where each of the other survivors are after an unhook ? And none of them are on gens ? That's quite comfy enough for me !
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So you had four people to go for and went for the person who was just unhooked (and by the sounds of it wasn't sweating at all if she didn't bring an exhaustion perk) then blamed the survivors. Ok. More evidence survivors can't use fun perks also as they just get taken advantage of.
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Some of it is deliberate tactical move, some of it is teammates refusing to take the heat for their unhooked teammate, and some of it is just spite.
I run BT and I still try to get the killer's attention when I unhook.
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Now where did the op say anything about survivors not able to bring whatever they want? Survivors can and do as they wish, but better know it's not a double standard and if the killer does whatever they want better not cry out about it.
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Not really, killers don't NEED perks to garuntee a 3k or 4k and can do so easily without any perks at all even (play nurse for example although you can with any killers) since they were given lots of base kits anyway and now killer is too easy. Then again killers still decide to bring eruption and other slow down perks. Solo queue survivors have no choice but to bring 4 sweaty perks to even have a chance of their round lasting more than 3 minutes.
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....thinking you either missed the point of what we said or are pointedly ignoring it mate.
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I'm not even saying that survivors can't bring exhaustion perks. What I'm saying is that survivors sometimes have to make it more attractive to be chased if they don't want their teammate to be tunneled out of the game.
In this situation, with 1 gen left and the 2 gens in the entrance hall still alive, every other person I could have gone for, would have been game losing. If someone with full health would have been in the entrance dead zone, I would have gone for them. But survivors bringing themselves into the strongest possible loop situation beforehand and then demanding that now you have to go after them even though it would probably take u like 40 seconds to even catch up to them and about 1-2 minutes to down them, just to not tunnel someone is too much from my perspective.
I'm trying not to tunnel but I will also not throw the game by chasing after ppl that I know I have no chance of catching in time.
Someone taking a hit in the hall or just standing next to kate would have been enough for me to not tunnel but everyone literary just waiting to zoom out of there is a big nope for me.
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This comment reeks of low experience lol. Here's an example of a SoloQ lobby where an insanely experienced Killer with good addons and decent perks was still 3-manned this morning. He played very good and we were still able to pump gens and last long enough in chase to get the job done. It was my second match I'ved played since the reset and it didn't matter. The odds were still in our favor
You think that Oni is getting that 1 Kill after the gates were popped if he brings no perks or addons and me + the randoms bring even stronger builds than those? I'm not a professional DBD player either, just somebody who's been here for years so yeah, lets be realistic and not exaggerate how "easy" Killer is. Look at how "easy" it was for him running 0 slowdown against good Survivors. We made multiple unnecessary mistakes that almost snowballed us and still won, enough said
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Once again, DBD proves to be one of the only PvP games on Earth where the other team blames YOU for how THEY play. They will literally go out of their way to take unnecessary risks and hide from any Killer interactions but complain if the weak link gets tunneled. Kids will literally hook-dive or hide in obvious spots near the hook, instantly unhook people before a Killer even leaves the area but god forbid you go back over there you're "camping"..... Honestly just a Survivor skill/entitlement issue
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Skill issue.
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For other Survivors? Yeah I agree, you might be one of em champ
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I don't know why people will hold up a single game as an example of game balance? I would argue that if you lose vs. solo Q with Oni that's mostly on the killer. And since he got 3 outed apparently he didn't play "that good" by the way
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For both of you. Now hug and make up…
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I post singular screenshots of games to send people that specifically make ridiculous claims like that person ^ who will swear that because they 4k'd mediocre Survivors without perks a handful of times that ALL Killers can easily do that at will against any Survivors in the world. According to them, anything less than a 4k in ANY match is solely a skill issue for Killers based off nothing. The only thing they'd probably provide is anecdotal evidence which is my point
Every time a person rebuttals with 'But that's just one game you played, that's irrelevant' they prove my point. I don't post to brag, I post to point out how ridiculous the other person sounds. If the person says one game I played doesn't matter then neither does the hyperbole they mention because of their own anecdotal evidence. You attempt to disagree with me but ironically agree with me at the same time
You don't see me going around saying SoloQ doesn't need changes just because I reguarly win in SoloQ, therefore people shouldn't defend or gloss over when people like that do the same
Also, I don't believe you understand how the game works if you think endgame results = everything. A person can express high skill in chases and interactions throughout the course of a match but still lose the game at the end. RNG is a thing, if you think DBD is solely skill based then you're just as lost as the first person. He WAS very obviously a good Oni, but yeah tell me more about how if a Killer loses = they couldn't have possibly played well and displayed skill
Post edited by AJStyIez on3 -
I don't understand why you're explaining yourself? Tunneling and camping are legitimate strategies currently. Do they feel bad as survivor? Yes and I play survivor 99.9% of the time, but that is simply the state of solo. Even new killers can do both those strategies just fine. BHVR approves it, I don't understand this apologism and trying to explain why you did. It's simple, you did because it's relatively simple and easy in solo survivor due to lack of co-ordination and won in the end. Tunneling is justified as long as you want to win.
Yesterday I had an Oni who was trying to tunnel out Mikaela, we somehow kept her alive for a while (I took a down for her cause she was death hook and I even took a BT hit while she was unhooking me to protect her since I could still spare a hook. In the end he did get her despite all our efforts, but the game ended in a draw. He got a 2k and we got a 2E.
That actually felt pretty rewarding because it could have ended in a worse situation (if he had strong gen defense perks he'd probably get more kills). The problem isn't those strategies specifically, it's that those strategies require co-ordination and communication to counter or perks and solo survivor lacks the first two. Tunneling and camping are not something hard to do in their current state, nor are they hidden behind a killer perk. They are accessible strategies to every killer and every level of killer can use them. It obviously requires a lot more effort from survivors to deal with it especially when solo. But that's a game-design flaw.
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Tunneling is an ingame strategy. Its not an exploit, nor is it a cheat. so basicly its justified EVERYTIME.
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If Kate was healing herself, it’s not tunneling.
You can’t take a conspicuous action and then expect the killer not to go for you.
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Hard disagree. And so have the developers, with the way MMR was implemented. A killer who gets 8 hooks and 0 kills didn't play better than a killer who got 4 hooks and 4 kills, because they lost the game. 4 hooks and 4 kills is just called efficiency, how you achieve it is largely irrelevant
Devs only care about kills, I only care about kills. I can get 3 hooks on 3 different people, and have accomplished nothing. Or I have 3 hooks on one person and am now in a position to win the game
Playing for 12 hooks is for the birds and survivor mains. Cause guess what? You still get smack talked at the end if you 2k'd with 10 hooks. No real reason to bother with that nonsense imo. I hard tunnel and camp almost every game, because it's the best strategy with most killers
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That's arguably the dumbest S I've ever heard on here so far. Are you really trying to tell me that you physically cannot display skill in the game against a player unless you get the Kill or Escape at the end? Right, because this hasn't been debunked dozens of times already.... DBD is not dominated by RNG at all and external factors like teammates and maps.... You're right everything in DBD is purely skill based. DBD is hockey.. We can agree to disagree, I don't judge people based solely off endgame results regardless of Survivor or Killer. I also factor in how they played during the match. When somebody is pulling off hard flicks and techs, not falling for any mindgames you cannot argue that they weren't good simply because of the endgame result. You can win a match and be dogwater, you can lose but be a top percentile player. Context matters and that's why current MMR is a bad system that nobody really likes
Respectfully, You're coming off as the typical burnt out player that refuses to concede anything is wrong with the SBMM system, you just double-downed on the copium when they left it unattended for a year and convinced yourself there's no alternative playstyle because you wanna play by the rulebook (Kills = Skills Hockey). To each their own, play how you want and more power to you. If you think playing hyper-efficient every single match on either side without ever taking a break to just let things happen organically then that is definitely a personal thing that I have no control over. You definitely don't have to do that at all for pub lobbies unless you're trying to break Supaalfs 500 winning streak, but again more power to you if you believe you have to hard-tunnel at the beginning of every single match or else you're a failure. You'd be just as good of a player as you are now if not better if you focused more on macro/micro than endgame results. Against top teams yeah you have to play more dirty, but be honest even at top MMR you can have a positive record and snowball most of your lobbies if you play cards right without hard-tunneling every match. Tunneling is fine and necessary to put pressure on insanely strong teams that have good RNG, but I strongly disagree that its necessary against every single team. There's no reward for reaching 3000+ MMR anyway except facing more cheaters and the same sweat squads that you already get at 1600-2500 except more frequently.
I understand not playing down to the level of competition because you can screw yourself over by underestimating people, but if you run mostly meta (which I assume you do based off how you view MMR and Killer) you do not have to play like your career is on the line to prove you're good at the game. The highest form of skill expression in DBD is not mindlessly M1ing corner generators 3 seconds into the match or 3-hooking one player to start the match, its how you hold up in-chase and how you perform under pressure between all the little interactions (When to make hook plays, How to maximize resources, When and how to take protection hits or bodyblock, pathing and connecting tiles, When to drop chases, when and how to mindgame tiles, hitting skill shots etc.). In comp it makes sense to fixate on the endgame results every match, but in pub lobbies? What you did in the game matters more than anything. You think the community uses Corner Claudette or FaceBubba as examples of top %? Hell no, they respect the Survivors and Killers that make skillful plays, win or lose
Only the obnoxious players in the community will ignore the context of a match and say "You 2kd instead of 4k'ing on Garden of Joy vs a SWF? You're bad!" - Ignore those types and don't become one
Despite being really good at Nurse, Spirit and good at other high tiers I still elect to main M1s because its more challenging. Even against top percentile players I can secure hooks and win chases, the end results don't change what I do to players throughout the course of the match. If I out-mindgame them at strong loops, perfectly read their 50/50s every time then it doesn't matter if they escape against me because I'm still capable of competing with them and winning my 1v1s. Yes, I do have to tunnel or proxy at times by default because I play M1s without always stacking slowdown while still going against strong teams, however you will never convince me that you're better than me for simply 4king on a facecamping Bubba with Deadlock meanwhile I'm 8/12 0k'ing or 1k'ing/2k'ing/3k'ing/4k'ing the same caliber teams on the most broken maps as Ghostface using info/chase builds. I honestly do not care to secure a 4k every single match anymore or else I'd just play Range Nurse and Alch Ring Blight all day. Forcing yourself through that level of pressure and unrealistic expectation in a game with so much RNG is for the birds as you called it. I used to think I wanted that every match and then I realized I was burning myself out and being jaded about sweaty lobbies all night
Post edited by AJStyIez on1 -
sometimes is most times isnt.- when u see a killers ignoring survivors just to go for the same one over and over again non stop everyday at least in high mmr.
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Some people still don't understand this.
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If you die within 10 seconds from when you get unhooked the unhooker* should loose points. You are getting killed by your team mate. It's not tunneling, it's stupidity.
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I made a similar post about this concept this week, but most people don't get it. If you unhook and then run to a super save loop while the poor unhooked survivor is left in the open .. well, I am not wasting my time at that super safe loop, sorry about that. When you unhook, you got to present to me some target thats worth pursuing or otherwise take the heat.
Same with survivors who loop like gods: if I missplayed and wasted too much time in a futile chase I might be compelled to tunnel someone to make good of some time. If you always just apply the hammer, don't be surprised if the opponent moves out of the way. Some players would wish to see you rather take the L instead of shift gears and "take it out on the weak link/innocent bystander", but thats all part of the concept of taking heat off the weak links in your team and dangling a bait in front of the killer that they know they could possibly take.
But this approach has been labeled everything from coping, to begging for scraps on my knees and being the lowest of the low ^^ Oh well, its sometimes hard to explain this concepts properly, but a fun game thats somewhat close and not a total curbstomp or tunnelfest at the camping ground for once side is like a dance between dishing out and taking it. I have had very close natural games that had everyone on deathhook and even a 12 hooks 4K at times, but of course these are the exeptions.
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I don't understand the point of this post - seeking validation?
You don't need to "justify" tunneling. It's a video game, you're free to play however you want, and the other side is allowed to do the same. And provided they don't harass you out of game or anything like that, they are also entitled to complain about how you play if they so choose.
You had the opportunity to take three other chases, but chose not to as you decided they'd be more difficult to catch than the unhooked person. That's fine, but it's also tunneling, no way around it. You were presented with alternatives, and didn't go for them.
It's not on you to play nice, but it's not on the survivors to provide you with free hits or chases in deadzones if they don't want to get tunneled. When a killer wants to win, you would have to give them greater than equal value for them to chase you over someone who's already hooked, which is basically equivalent to throwing the game or taking downs if they're committed to the tunnel.
The real issue is tunneling someone out being the most effective way to win after 6.1.0, and that's it. It's not the survivors' fault you tunneled Kate out. If you think it's justified, cool, keep doing it. They're most likely complaining because they didn't find how you played fun, which is also fair.
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I’m sorry I don’t know how to quote only specific parts of the post…but on the last paragraph..I think what many others fail to realize is that you can be a very good killer, but also going against four survivors who are all really good survivors…so now you have one good player vs. four on a team…that usually also have coms…of course you can lose and still be a good killer.
And idk why that’s such a surprise to so many people. If you had the best survivor in dbd against four equally skilled killers in one match, do you think they’d have an easy time clicking, looping, and gen rushing their way out of that match? Probably not. But…they’d still be a good survivor.
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That’s disgusting and shows lack of skill. You must really enjoy your 15k points at the end of every hard tunnel/camp match.
As a killer main, I never thought I’d say this…but I can’t wait until your MMR is really up there and a skilled SWF effortlessly mops the floor with you…and then it happens over and over and over. Because you’re using purely camping skills to get you up there w the big boys, but when you arrive you won’t have the skill to hold your own. Enjoy your four hook wins though.
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Apparently to some people it’s all or nothing 100% of the time and I refuse to play the game that way. In my opinion its immature and shows a lack of experience if people call others bad simply because Kills/Escapes. Context matters and its the only reason that most veterans are still playing the game. If everybody only cared about Kills/Escapes the game would be dead fast
There's too many factors out of a players control to put all of the credit or blame onto one persons shoulders alone. When I win, unless the Survivors/Killer were BM'ing I'm purely humble because I know that RNG and game balance can help me in multiple situations. I judge others' and myself based off our performance in clutch moments and when I take my chases with them COMBINED with the results, not just the results.
We all know somebody can easily hide for hatch/gate and let their teammates die or hard-tunnel a weak looper at 5 gens as a high-tier character. Do I sweat? Of course, but that's not an everyday thing. I also play some days for game clips and fun too while I smoke or have company over, I can't possibly have fun by playing my strongest build and dirtiest playstyle for every single match. You have to make it interesting to prevent burnout
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No, no, no. "Can't use fun perks" would be a perk like No Mither, not a freaking Exhaustion Perk.
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Surprisingly, as survs can see eachothers hook states by just looking at the HUD. And if the killer can count, i'll def take a hit in solo queue. That's the good thing about MMR in solo queue. Sometimes it almost feels like playing with friends.
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Unfortunately, there's no getting around the fact that you did tunnel. Yes, the Kate should've gotten well away before starting to heal, but you also had options and considering none of those "options" were on gens.
You tunneled because Kate was simply the easier target. You were up against three different exhaustion perks all positioned for an easy getaway, and you made the correct decision.
The fault lies with the game rather than the players, honestly. Exhaustion perks provide far too much value, and the game would probably be better off without them.
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Factually untrue. The power balance still largely lies in the survivors hands. Even strong killers who play well can get 3 manned simply due to survivors being able to crank out 45-50 second gens. It's not uncommon for 2-3 gens to pop in the first 2 minutes of the game.
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The only time that could physically happen is if the play being unhooked is afk. The endurance will give them plenty ofntime to to clear distance from the killer before another hit
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Anyone saying a killer should take a clearly rigged chase over an easy down is entitled.
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Dude that is lot of words for saying " I main survivor and I have absolutely zero idea about killer side. All I do is complain"
All my survivor or Killer matches , atleast 2 of them have medkits , Prove , boons. There is hardly a match where someone does not have this. Do you expect the killer to not bring slow-down perks? If you want a easy game maybe MP games are not for you. based on your comment, I am guessing you are either at a MMR where its walk in the park for Killers as survivors have no clue how to play ( your comments supports this assumption) or just talking BS.
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Rpd, Badham and garden of joy are the maps where i have zero complains when killer tunnels and will also do the same as killer if the unhooked survivor is in a bad spot
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If exhaustion perks didnt exist, then survivors would be totally defenseless against tunneling.
You might as well give "Free 4k" cards to every killer.
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Thank you for caring for kill. Because technically kill give you nothing but increasing MMR and putting you vs sweat squad.
If Devs make care about hooks, killers would only go for kill anyway. And the fact Devs actual reward you to go for 8 hooks 0 kills is massive BP and drop your MMR to vs easier team for easier match, that is the true reward playing as killer. Yet you still care of kills than hook.
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Aside from sprint burst and maybe dh we don't really see how exhaustion perks help with tunneling outright. Regardless people can and have run killers for long times even without exhaustion perks, though can't argue that without them survivors would be Abit crippled overall
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Anything that can put some distance between the killer and the survivor can prevent or at least delay tunneling.
The idea that this game would be better off without exhaustion perks is of a killers paradise where survivors are tunneled effortlessly.
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Not to keep this off op topic but 75ish % of survivors are already tunneled effortlessly with or without perks
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Nothing wrong there. Didn't tunnel at all, unless you wanna use the vague definition of going after a previously hooked survivor. Which is pretty silly
Kate was the easiest to get to and so you played accordingly.
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If you don’t want a killer to tunnel, take the agro. Expecting a killer to just let somebody go and put themselves in a worse situation for YOUR sake is downright childish. You can’t expect them to do that when you unhook and run/hide leaving your injured teammate out to dry.
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Tunneling may not be enjoyable by everybody, but it's not a problem.
Teammates scramming away instead of getting aggro is the second cause as far as I'm concerned.
The first one is the unhooked trying to body block.
(The third one is survivors doing a gens-before-friends play, which invariably forces the killer to attempt to tip the scales a bit)
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I'll always try to take hits for my unhooked teammates if the Killer's coming straight back, I also always run BT though so they can usually make it to safety.
BT right now is amusing when a killer who is intent on tunnelling waits 10 seconds then hits them and BT saves the day. Love to see it
But yeah, protect your teammates unless you're dead on hook.
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