Are licensed characters canon?
Really thinking about it, licensed characters don't make much sense in some cases despite having in-game backstories. Here are some examples:
- Leon, Jill, Chris and Claire are all still alive in the Resident Evil universe, so how exactly are they in DBD?
- Bill was killed by zombies, so how could he have been taken if he were already dead?
- David Tapp and Amanda Young were also both already dead in the SAW universe.
- Steve Harrington, Nancy Wheeler and Jonathan Byers are all three still alive in the Stranger Things universe.
- Ashley Williams is still alive in Evil Dead.
- Pyramid Head is a monster created from guilt rather than a normal living being. How does the Entity take that???
- Pinhead and Chatterer are Cenobites from literal Hell, how do they get taken by the Entity?
So, are licensed chapters even canon to DBD lore? Or are they simply here for the community's enjoyment?
Comments
-
I believe one of the community managers (I think it was Peanits) kind of hinted that they are, plus Bill's archive has a pretty clear number placement (776-780, somewhere between Nea and Jake), which would only make sense if he was canonically available to the Observer.
The way I see it, they are canon to DBD, but DBD is not canon to their original stories. This way, they can exist in the realms, but their original stories continue as normal.
15 -
That's how I saw it yeah, their universes are part of DBD but DBD is not part of theirs.
5 -
Also adding that the entities operate in the multiverse, these characters were taken from a different reality of their movies/ books/ games.
4 -
They are probably taken from a mass of infinite multiverses. For example, Claire and Chris Redfield are related, but may realise they may not be quite the same, so Claire may be from a different universe.
As from other games, multiverses may tie in sometimes! Take Silent Hill 2 and the various endings it has: One universe sees James survive, another sees him die, etc. . But one ending sees him attempting a ritual to bring his wife back, declaring "The Old Gods havem't left this place". What if in that ending, the ritual actually summoned the Entity, which then took him!
I think that's the fun of this, in so far as the game (and any other, for that matter) has a general lore, but you can make your own interpretations around it.
5 -
It's far more interesting to say they are canon than they aren't, considering Dead by Daylight falls under the Cosmic Horror genre and therefore deals with a lot of multiverse-type-shenanigans which is just by nature ingrained into the base lore.
Plenty of explanations fit fairly easily and produce some simple answers:
The Licensed Characters are taken from nearly identical universes which could be exactly the same as their source material save for a few minor and utterly insignificant small details. Making the canon of the characters the canon that we know and not anything different.
The licensed characters are taken from the universe we observe them in in their source material, but at a different point in time that was never shown in their source material. IE: After the events of Left 4 Dead, SAW 1 / 3, Evil Dead Season 3 (and the unreleased Season 4) etc.
Some character specific ones:
Pinhead is said to have more or less entered the realm of the entity willingly, following the presence of the Box which somehow wound up there, he was not taken by the entity although it does give him a unique opportunity to relish in the pleasures and sufferings that come with an endless cycle of death in the realm of the entity. It's quite possible there really isn't a reason for him to leave, or perhaps he comes and goes between the trials as he wishes and sees fit we really wouldn't know. Although it would make sense for his character, given that he describes himself and his fellow Cenobites as "explorers in the further regions of experience" so perhaps the realm of the Entity is worth exploring for all the experiences that it offers.
Equally Pyramid Head seems bound by his duty to "dispense punishment" in Silent Hill, the Entity it appears took notice of this and requested Pyramid Head's presence in its own realm, after its obligations had been fulfilled in Silent Hill. The Executioner, without much thought or perhaps instinctively, took up the mantle and great knife to once more complete the duty it had been charged with. So they are both examples of killers who are there mostly by choice and less by chance unlike the other characters of the cast.
For the characters that presumably died, IE Bill / Detective Tapp, it's described that they are taken just before the moment of death, in that infinitesimally small moment of time between life and death they are kidnapped from our reality, and whisked away to the realm of the entity where it is in control. Meaning that it's possible for a licensed character in DBD to be the exact person we see in their source material, as their story as we know it is never affected, they still "died" in their universe even if in actuality they continue to persist and struggle on in the realm of the entity, unbeknownst by the people who knew them.
However this explanation does have one caveat which doesn't make it universally fitting for every character: which is the body. Throughout Dead by Daylight's lore we see repeated instances of characters who "disappeared" and were never seen again (because they had been taken), meaning even if characters like Tapp or Bill had been taken just before death and they still "died" in their universe, the disappearance of their body would also need an explanation.
This works perfectly fine for Bill in L4D because, as far as I'm aware, Bill was never seen again after his sacrifice- the surviving cast don't go looking for his body because the place is littered with zombies and is far too dangerous to go back for to give him even a proper burial. This is why Bill was "Left Behind." So the disappearance of his body would have no affect on the reality of L4D as we know it. (Although I am aware that L4D has some comics or whatever which I haven't read so maybe they go back for his body in a comic that I'm not aware of, in which case let me know).
However this doesn't work very well for Detective Tapp, because in one of the SAW films (I honestly forget which there are too many and the timeline is way messed up) there's a flashback to Detective Tapp's funeral where he is given all the honors a policeman and detective who died in the field deserves (sort of, he was discharged but I think the funeral scene still happened with a picture of him in uniform and everything, but this is all besides the point). How possible this funeral would be without his body is very questionable, although it could potentially still have happened if the funeral was only symbolic- all the people there saying their last words just without a body (a reality for people who have to mourn for family members where their body is not able to be retrieved, ex: "lost at sea" or whatever). I don't remember if the brief scene had an open or closed casket, but either way it's thrown into question.
As for the last few characters I wasn't able to address, it's kinda hard to tell with Ash / Steve / Nancy / Johnathan because their stories are not finished (in the case of Evil Dead will never be finished unfortunately, since the show was cancelled and Bruce Campbell vowed to never again reprise his role in film or on TV).
As for the Resident Evil people I don't know enough about them to really be able to tell. I played through RE2 / 3 Remakes but I know the franchise expands far and wide in both directions before and after those games and I'm not invested enough to tackle all that. However, my previous points about timelines and multiverse stuff still stand for all these characters in these last two paragraphs.
4 -
I think they're canon to DBD, but not canon to the actual franchises.
4 -
In some cases they are from different timelines, without Jill and Leon a lot of later game event wouldn't have happened.
0 -
I think you can see Bill’s body in l4d2 but don’t quote me on that. Besides, the entity makes new bodies for the survivors all the time. I don’t think it would be difficult to replace or restore their original shell.
2 -
I consider it DBD canon, but not original canon. Like, it's canon for this one universe. I like a show called Death note, and it has dramas, musicals, movies, etc, and all are a little tad different depending, but they are canon to that show in the moment.
0 -
Interestingly, I'm quite sure DBD is considered canon to Ringu. Since we see Yoichi as an adult in the game, it's kind of an actual sequel to Ringu.
1 -
Going to be 100% honest.
It sort of doesn't matter at all.
By that I mean this:
The Entity can recreate any survivor at any time at will. Spontaneously creating a carbon copy of an entire human being with all of their memories, convictions, instincts, and characteristics in tact. All with only limited access to the original.
Truth be told, I don't think anyone in Dead By Daylight is the 'Original' but copies.
They all die infinite times and are ostensibly CLONES that simply play the trials until they die and another clone takes their place.
You can see a lobby of 4 Neas or 4 Feng's because they're all clones.
The Entity only needs the original - which means that either the Entity only needs a fragment of the original (Which is evidenced by The Spirit's lore) it's possible that in the original IPs the characters are either 100% flawless clones of the original that the Entity released back into their universes - or that the Entity only 'copied' the originals in passing to recreate within the Entity's realm.'
Bill is still dead in Left 4 Dead. He is still dead in Dead By Daylight. He is, however, kept alive through an infinite supply of replicants that are created to die so that Bill's suffering, hope, fear, and determination can feed the Entity's hunger.
3 -
We don't know if there are 2 copies of the same survivor in entity's realm. If you look at Benedict Bakers notes there's nothing about 2 dwights or 3 neas
0 -
It has been confirmed that Bill, Amanda Young, and Detective Tapp are canon to the Dead by Daylight universe, mostly because they had times, but also because the devs confirmed it, and from what I know not all of the other ones that are licensed are. I know Ghostface is actually both a license and an actual original killer. His backstory has lore, he’s literally a killer with a story like the clown’s but he just has a licensed mask. And I’m still contemplating Resident Evil because of the blight outfit for Nemesis. The Dev’s usually stick to the lore and they don’t give characters outside of it stuff from theirs. I am going to try and look further to see if this chapter is canon. The other DLC’s that are licensed I don’t really know much about when it comes to them lore wise. We know for sure Stranger Things isn’t.
0 -
Alhough it would be interesting if at some point one of the other franchises mentions the Entity in its own canon. Considering Resident Evil seems to have a good relationship with Behaviour for example I could hypothetically maybe see there being a minor mention of The Entity being a vague threat in some official Resident Evil thing if those developers were so inclined.
0 -
The original designer of Pyramid Head said that the Pyramid Head in Silent Hill 2 was solely for James Sunderland and wouldn't be the one in DBD, but there are other similar beings called "White Hunters". This "White Pyramid Head" was not meant for James at the time, but was made to punish, and this could be the one taken by The Entity.
If this is the case, this Pyramid Head might have been made solely for the trials - and that makes things potentially interesting that Silent Hill had this one set for this purpose, and why it would. Alternatively, when the Entity investigated this reality, a new Pyramid Head was conjured, sensing the judgements of those within the trials, and became the Entity's judge to be used to punish survivors for their sins.
0 -
The DBD lore for the Ringu chapter has been confirmed by both the devs and the license holder to be canon for the Ringu universe itself.
While i would love to have White Hunter as a skin, the one we have in the game already could technically be considered the pyramid head from silent hill 2 since we do have James in the game.
0 -
True, although The Executioner arrived before James. It's could be the original, judging by how the lore is interpreted, but at the same time Ito said that as Pyramid Head was designated solely for James, his task is completed and thus would cease to be.
What's interesting about DBD's lore on The Executioner is that it does not mention its purpose nor James. What's more, when it is said that once its presence was not needed it prepared for the long rest, but with James it ended its purpose and existence in front of James. So (and not saying this is the correct lore, but a possible interpretation) this Executioner was preparing for the long rest, implying it's duty ended less violently.
So the lore is obviously made ambiguously for interpretation, which could fit this Executioner as another White Hunter, and likewise could fit the original "Red Pyramid Thing" James came across. I kinda like that openness!
0 -
The fact that most lobbies have numerous of the same survivors creates a dissonance to this effect.
it doesn't need to be stated in the lore or by developers, it is implicit in gameplay.
Lockers, for example, do not need to be discussed and communicated by developers or hold dedicated mention in lore to be a practical and evident part of the Entity's realm - experienced through gameplay.
Even if duplicates did not exist, the point would still stand that they are all replicants and none are completely original.
0 -
So the actual Observer had an encounter with Jigsaw...
Wow.
1 -
That was the entity, nor jigsaw
2 -
Mcote actually hinted a while ago that there's only one version of a person in the realm when someone asked if we would see survivors as killers and vice versa.
0 -
Since they canonically exists in the stories they came from, I don't think they are. They could also appear in future games and/or movies that could be canon which would mean they wouldn't canonically exist in DBD's world. Besides I thought the whole point of bringing in other licenses into the game was that they aren't canon, but rather guest characters.
0 -
I'd like to jump in here and say that Yoichi Asakawa and Sadako Yamamura are, as per the licence holders of Ringu, canonically within the Entity's Realm. In all other cases, I don't think so.
0 -
You make a good point. We could say the same for Ghostface. This Ghostie is a guy named Jed, so it's not like he is a Ghostie from the series.... but a new one.
0 -
Yeah but this also can be used to prove that Pinhead does not sends anyone to hell, or that cages are in control of entity (they count as sacrifice)
Sorry for replying this late but I saw it now
0 -
You can see Bill's lifeless body in The Passing in L4D2 when the new survivors meet the L4D ones. You can even pick up and use his own M16 he had before dying.
And everything that happens in The Passing is 100% canon to the L4D universe including Bill's body being there.
He's even in the same room and same position he died in the comics.
0 -
No reason to apologize, my friend. A good discussion is always welcome.
On the contrary, I'd assume from the fact that Executioner cages count as sacrifices and not moris that they are, indeed, controlled by the entity just as much as sacrificial hooks are. Perhaps this next step is a personal one, but I always saw the Pyramid Head was a more symbiotic addition to the Realm, where his judgement of sinners fed the Entity enough as to allow the Executioner to carry out its own whims.
As for Pinhead - In a way you are correct, but then again - I always saw it as yet another copy of a survivor being removed from the Realm. No matter how many bodies he chains to those poles and slurps into the big disco inferno underground... there's still an endless supply of identical survivors waiting to be shown the exquisite sights.
I love your observations though. As said, there's a lot players can glean from gameplay without so much as peeping at the game's lore.
0 -
I think that licensed characters are just cipies made by Entity. I dont thik that Entity could capture literal demons, or nightmares.
0 -
The entity is an ancient god who rules over it's own dimension, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be too hard for it to steal a demon.
0 -
"Who rules over it's own dimension", not "who ruled over all dimensions", and by this sheer fact i cant believe the Entity is capable of moving trhough multi or even omniverse. Capture, tie to itself, and manipulating with powers of Cenobite or Nighmare, and some others.
0 -
I mean, it's pretty much stated in the archives that the entity is a ancient god who travels the multiverse consuming people and worlds, and also is clearly stated on Freddy's lore that the entity altered his abilities.
0
