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So I've read the news about the Knight... And I'm worried...
So... Developers buffed (a little bit) some of the basic numbers of his power, which is a good thing, I can't deny that.
What I'm worried about is: His main issue was not solved by any means.
If you don't know what the main issue: Survivors are able to see a green orb roaming around (his power).
This feature is ruining completely the opportunity for the Knight to use his power as it was intended.
As long as survivors can see where you want to put a guard and can see the patrol that you're making, there is no other efficient way of playing him, but just tapping his power at loops, just for survivor to hold W to a next loop and hoping to have a connected loop or tile (map rng).
And if you ask me, this is the most boring way of playing for both sides. But unfortunately this is the most efficient tactic against such power and to use such power.
The main issue with Knight - He is very "survivor friendly", when it comes to countering the killer's power.
- Survivors can see which guard he's about to use.
- Survivors can see a green orb, and based on that can savely move away from it. Making the Knight to completely waste his power. (If he tries to use it as intended)
- If he's tapping his ability at loops (lame but efficient way) survivors can easiley outrun the radius.
- While haunted, survivors can pick up the banner to not only get rid of the guard, but take additional 2 buffs to speed and endurance.
- While haunted, survivors can simply outrun any guard without a need of a banner. (Yes, they actually can) His power at this point can be completely ignored, if he's not chasing you with the guard.
- Survivors can use a Dead hard on a guards to get a guaranteed speed boost and distance on the Knight.
- Healthy survivor can take an agro of the guard (when the radius building up), to easiley protect the chased survivor from his power. (He can be hardly "bullied" by swf at this point)
- While the Knight using his power - he can't see survivors, he can only hear the foot steps. (I've no idea why this is a thing, considering survivors can see everything about his power)
- He stands in place while he's using his power (as intended), means if he miss (considering how hard to catch them in radius) - he wasted his power and survivors get insane distance.
Zoning survivors out of loops is a complete map dependant tactic, but also very boring way of playing for both sides.
If they only removed the visual aspect of his power (green orb) from survivors, I think it should've been much better, than twicking any numbers.
Someone was telling: "You're not suppose to use his power in chases" - that only means, that his power is garbage, and he's gonna struggle in the current meta.
We'll see how it goes... But I'm worried that he's actually going to be (as someone said) the most hated killer by both sides.
I hope such cool power will not be wasted, just because developers were way too afraid to make him stronger.
Till the 22th of November!
Comments
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Mostly agree. Killer numbers and abilities are often way too safe, especially when it comes to built-in counters for the survivors to use. There are SO MANY of those in this game. With the Knight alone, survivors can see the green orb that spawns guards, can see their patrol range, and can simply touch a banner that kills the guard AND gives them Haste/Endurance.
The guards also despawns if he hits them. "But then he could body block you and it's a double-tap down." Good! That's using strategy, something killer seldom gets to do. You have no idea how hard it is to body block survivors anyway. Just try "OP" body blocking windows and pallets with Wraith without Windstorm.
Ordering the guards to do stuff for you is nice, but unless it's much faster than doing it yourself, there's no point. The only thing I see this in is when the Carnifex breaks a pallet quick, and you can instantly walk through it the moment it breaks, but I'm sure that'll be patched out. There's also no reason for the Carnifex to run that slow.
And in general, I'm fine with guards having specialities, like the Carnifex kicking faster or the Assassin giving deep wound, but I don't want weaknesses. Makes no sense making a killer who's supposed to be strong, but designing them with a handicap in the name of "reasonable counterplay." The amount of counterplay survivors have against killers isn't just generous, but outrageous.
I don't care if you call the Knight's playstyle and counterplay "boring." That's not an argument. Comparing him to Spirit or Artist in terms of how "boring" or "OP" he is, also not an argument. If you get out of your safe zone for a second, maybe you'll actually have fun playing as/against this killer. I know I will.
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Knight has such a unique concept of a power and you could do so much things with that... but sadly that's not what we will get when he comes out.
Instead we will have another anti-loop power, that this time takes very little thought since it's AI based, and nothing really more. Such a wasted potential. He will probably be less favorite for people than Artist (she takes a skill and has more gameplay to her on both sides) and people allready dislike Artist.
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Yeah, it never made sense to me that the developers bottleneck the killers powers by making them either clunky as hell or giving the survivors way, way, WAY more info about the power then the killer, who should be the master of that power.
I hadn't played a FPS for a long time, devoting way too much time to mastering killers in DBD (;D), but when I did I couldn't cope for a while how fluid and responsive the controls were, it was unreal. This just shows how artificial sluggish killer controls for the most part are, to make them "balanced".
And its with nearly every power in the game that the survivors have more knowledge about it and its progress then the killer. Weskers infection? Survivors see its progress, Wesker only binary infected/fully infected. Onryous curse? Survivors see all 7 segments, Onryou only binary cursed/fully condemned. Plagues infection? Survivors see how far it has progressed, Plague only binary infected/fully infected. Spirits phasing? Before 6.1 and for the longest time of the games history IW could 100% counter that power and even now survivors have way more knowledge about spirits whereabouts then the other way around.
I understand that its part of the balancing act, but some of these decisions make for very furstrating experiences. I know that BHVR wants to prevent tunneling ect. but I think that giving the survivors full knowledge over the other sides assets, while deliverately obfuscates that sides access to its own information, is just the wrong way to tackle it. And the Knight is probably the biggest offender in this regard, not only is he blind while using his power, but his power is also fully visible to the survivors the whole time. Yikes...
So either even the playing field and make the survivors fully visible while using the power, or even better: make the orb invisible and silent, letting both sides mindgame and surprise each other. I would also love some qol buff for the Knight, ie while looking at a pallet or gen in front, just tap the alternative power button to send a Guard over there to knock it without having to travel there via spirit orb.
Also, just give in to the popular demands and finally show us survivor hooks. It does more harm then good and is just one more needlessly obfuscated base stat.
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I think the only thing where the Killer doesn't have to guess how long is remaining is hook progress. Except for the part where the actual hook states aren't marked, so you'd better memorise those on the UI!
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I think killers feel clunky because survivors only protection is distance (time). if you take away the clunkiness from killer you take away all protection a survivor has.
It would certainly be fun to try giving the survivors an active way to defend themselves but making the killers faster.
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It is so, so funny that the knight’s power buffs survivors.
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dbd as always fail to see what is wrong.
next time they will buff DS DH again and nerf eruption and cob
buff nurse more and nerf pig again
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New Killer concept: The Athlet, a mime killer. His power? Responsive control, quick reversal of directions and normal FPS response times. Kill rate after 3 month: 84,7%
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HOW?
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If you grab a banner you get speed boost and endurance.
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ok? thats always been a thing. The banner even shows up later now
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Lol why not stun killer too
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This killer will not shine in higher rank-games for sure. He will 4K in low-MMR, but above that, forget him.
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Honestly, the orb should be replaced with directional audio or something, like the spirit. Doesn't tell you it's exact path, just that it's nearby
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My point is simple:
Why would anyone play just a weaker and more boring version of an Artist? It makes no sense. Just play Artist.
If the only way of using his power efficiently is just tapping it at loops - no one will want to play as him or against him in less than a week.
I'm just hoping that I'm wrong and you will actually be able to use it efficiently like it was intended, so... I'm just gonna play as him in 3 matches, to get a complete view.
Also, I'm probably going to get a really strong survivors since the current mmr system is putting any new killer on a account with the same mmr as the highest mmr killer in your account. (For me it's Hag)
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I'm extremely confused by people saying the knight is weak or you can't play them as "intended". First off the idea that you could ever play the knight by having guards patrol long routes is ridiculous. First you'd have to pick an area for it to patrol then spend time creating the route and then they would have to take time patrolling the route. When in the history of DBD have killers had time to do something slow and cumbersome like that?
In DBD speed is king and powers you can pull off quickly or have high mobility are best that's why Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Oni are at the top. I left out Artist on purpose because more on her later but she's also up there. Powers that are slow and take time to setup are terrible like who do we have in the game with powers like that? Trapper? The worst killer in the game? This is what people want more of? People are complaining about Knight only likely being B tier but I promise if the focused on the part people keep talking about they would be much worse.
Now the other complaint is that Knight is just another Artist which kinda but not really. First people have an oversimplified idea of how Artist works which is drop bird at loop ad nauseum until survivor goes down which you can do yeah but that's not the only reason Artist is good, they also have really good built in information, perk synergies and can snipe from across the map which are also all skills you need to learn with her and knight can do none of these things (knight can synergize with similar perks but in different ways and I imagine his best builds will actually be much different from Artist) why I honestly find it a lazy comparison.
Knight in my opinion is much closer to a fixed twins. Macro game play centered around either double teaming a single survivor or occupying multiple survivor's time. Like we're looking at possibly the best killer at enforcing a 3 gen in the game. Yes the antiloop is there but generally you want to be trying to control the map and herding survivors into dead zones for double hits or chasing a survivor down while keeping a nearby survivor and doing map control and protecting your 3 Gen the entire time. I think this is why people don't think knight will not take skill they will it's just going to test game sense and long term planning instead of mechanical skill.
All in all I think knight is....fine. I don't think the changes change their tier placement much just makes them feel much better to play which is fine because I think they're quite decent and could fall anywhere from low A to mid B tier but you won't see them much in a few months because people don't like playing macro killers.
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Yes, I actually created a post 2 weeks ago on the PTB feedback, suggesting to remove the visible green orb from survivors to let the knight play predictively.
I literally said: "Just let survivors only hear the orb, with that way the Knight can predict where survivors are heading to put a guard ahead of them, it will make Hold W tactic dissapear and open the opportunity for skillfull playes and for survivors to use their ears more."
Just like against a Spirit, instead of an Artist.
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It kinda shows which part of the community needs to be pleased a little more. I have played knight like once in the PTB, i still gonna play him though, but ima use the guards for camping hooks and directing survivors to a path I want them to go. Like making sure to send the guard towards or IN killer shack, forcing them away and being able to chase them somewhere easyer.
Its gonna need practice, its gonna get me another 1000 flame comments in EGC, but if the devs want to make him weak because he is debuffed while using his power meanwhile the survivors have all info they need, then im not going to play him the casual way.
(i also hate that there is 3 diffrent guards, but you cannot switch them as you please. Wanna kick that gen? sorry you just used the big guy, have the fast one who needs longer to do it. Need to guard a hook? sorry, lantern guy isnt aviable right now, slow big guy however looks more intimidating anyway, use him)
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The defending mechanics are present on many games on this genre and they never work out, I believe in some cases it was what killed some attempts at dethroning DBD.
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in ptb, knight lost collision when a guard chased a survivor so 2 tapping isn't really possible either
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Because Artist is an Ugly Poopy Doo Doo Head who doesn’t know how to shut up and refuses to take a lozenge for her annoying hoarse cries.
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Interesting chat. My instinct is that the players in this discussion are sleeping on the buffs the Knight received on Friday notes.
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The "mark object to interact" part of the killer is so clunky. It'd be so much nicer if it he could just spawn a guard while looking at the stuff from a distance and press ctrl.
I feel they shouldve just copied the Hell Ember from Identity V. Although maybe a bit too different of a playdtyle.
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I mean, even with the buffs, the guards are literally supposed to struggle to get hits unless Knight double teams them. The most optimal thing is still to place down a guard instantly.
The guards are seemingly supposed to be good for wasting some Survivors time AFTER they notice someone, you HAVE to chase as Knight to get actual value. The guards don't work with gen kicking perks (they apparently work with PWYF though?) and the banners still instantly dismiss them. It's still a few short loops to grab a banner and then go right back to doing gens. And while the guards now begin chasing faster after noticing someone, you can still run through a guard to get free distance on them because they're floating towards where they saw you, now where you're moving to.
MAYBE these buffs will cause waves after release, but as it stands now, the problem of what his most optimal playstyle is... is still leaving guards at loops.
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I've read his buffs and I mentioned it in my first post, we didn't test it, coz they closed beta without letting people test the changes (which is kinda weird), 0.5 sec buffs to his power feels like "meh", survivors are still be able just Shift+w out of his power. Besides, since they still see a green orb, as a Knight you most likely will never catch them in your power if you're not tapping it at loops.
So to me these buffs seems pretty pointless, I think instead of twicking the numbers they should've just remove the visual green orb, and fix all AI's bugs. Thats it. And this killer will seems much more enjoyable to play for both sides.
Since it will be all about mindgames, instead of holding Shift+W.
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The most idiotic part of the Knight is that survivors are able to buff themselves and remove his power simultaneously. Under no circumstances should survivors get any sort of buff from any killer using their powers.
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The timer for banner to appear is longer now, but still tho... I don't think any changes that they've made are going to affect his overall gameplay.
The main problem is still there (I think), you just can't use your power as intended, you have to use it poorly and lame (tap it at loops), since it's more effective.
Just because survivors are able to see this green orb...
Well, maybe they know better...? We'll see how it goes on November 22.
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but then survivors might lose sometimes and we can’t have that!
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Probably the only reasonable countermeasure the devs gave survivors in this. Everything else is really hand holding stuff.
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Longer or shorter is irrelevant. It shouldn't be a thing at all.
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He is a perfect killer for the entitled playera who want a braindead easy counter, keeo him, if he is strong he will get nerfed anyway to satiate the salt
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Holy #########. It's so difficult to find someone who actually understands how the Knight works. Upvoted!
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Cries in clown.
Sad fact, survs are affected be purple addon that allow to see auras.
But yeah, agree on that.
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Knight is once again a clunky zoning killer who makes both sides feel miserable due to his boring counterplay. I understand powers are hard to design but it’s getting old quick imo
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I feel after a couple of games with him that he is just super weak. Like his power is cool and all but he is so easily countered by just holding W once again. Like as soon as u start setting ur guard everyone just Ws out of the loops and f u chase them the guards mostly dont become active before the survivor is past them. Would be nice if he was actually a killer that changes the meta not falls victim to it as well.
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Not that you're wrong about Clown but at least he can deny survivors from getting a boost by not using that add on and/or not using yellow bottles where survivors can benefit.
Knight on the other hand double buffs survivors by losing his entire power with no benefits to him at all!
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> you won't see them much in a few months because people don't like playing macro killers.
See also: Hag
🦆🦂
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