The Knight is a fun killer even with the current problems
Sure I ######### and moan about him and he got bugs here and there but out of all the killers that I played? The Knight is the most fun killer to play as or against.
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Damn, I don't think I've seen a positive post for this Killer till now.
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If they actually took any risks of him being viable, I honestly think he'd be a very well received killer. As it stands, he's easier to counter than he is to play, and the reward is rarely worth the effort.
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Well, uh, at least this post is proof that fun is a subjective concept
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Yeah but he can easily fall in the overwhelming side of killers. And as far as I can tell and correct me if I'm wrong, mechanically he is not challenging, so making overtuned is rather risky. I do believe his bugs will be ironed out no doubt although it'll take a while, but exactly because he is so different than the rest I think he is more difficult to balance right.
I personally will wait a little, I understand killers are not happy with him. I don't exactly understand how they wanted him to play out if I'm being honest and killers were also saying Dredge and Sadako were bad and the stats came out and people were making all sorts of guesses as to why is that because it didn't fit their narrative. Of course I cannot deny I could be way off with this Killer but I'll wait and see personally.
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"Overwhelming" is often code for viable. Just like how wraith was "a wee bit OP" because his uncloak lunge was actually able to potentially hit people at medium sized loops. I get what you mean, but the perspective is not exactly impartial when you consider things like that. he has far too much counterplay and too much information to constantly calculate regarding his guards and their rotation on top of the chase and everything else the killer needs to be simultaneously tracking. You need to have a high reward for that much stress.
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I mean... Going against him is pretty fun...
Especially on the new map.
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Then according to you viable is code for high MMR. All killers are viable cause every killer has over 55% killrate. Having under 50% makes the killer unviable, if he has under 50% I take it back. If one way of playing him is unviable but another one isn't that still doesn't make him unviable even if he is unoriginal or boring that way.
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I honestly love them. I know people think he's weak, but he's definitely not. Clever guard placements can deny the shift w counterplay on many occasions. In addition, he can guard gens pretty well. The only thing that might be a problem in the future is his absurd strength in 3-gen situations with the gen kick meta. But that's more a problem of the meta itself than the Knight.
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Considering how matchmaking works, I wouldn't even go that far. The biggest difference between high MMR players and low ones is that higher ones know how to stack advantages and exploit weaknesses in design. So yes, that is an important consideration for viability. Ideally the issues of the game would be fixed in a way that all killers (and the survivor role itself, including solo queue) would all be viable at all skill levels, but that's not how this game works unfortunately. What makes things nonviable in this game is the inevitability of their denial as long as the knowledge and technique are present, or their impact not being able to keep up with the flow of the game loop.
Edit: also please don't attempt to misuse kill statistics to prove a point, the devs disclaim against doing that every single time they share them.
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It sure is, considering most of y'all's definition of fun is the killer having a mediocre power with built-in counterplay so it isn't too "boring."
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What if I told you that Knight, a killer with a mediocre power and in-build counterplay in the form of the banner and the W key, is still boring as hell to deal with because the most efficient gameplay is holding W and the banner involves actively handicapping yourself in most situations to get use out of it.
Knight is boring as hell to face because gameplay boils down to W key, get zoned at loop by guard, rinse and repeat and then get camped on hook by him and his power, and he's boring as hell to play because the most efficient way to play him is to zone survivors by dropping a guard at a loop, hold w after them to a different one, rinse and repeat.
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But you're never framing it from the killer's perspective in terms of them being strong or at least being able to do something. It's always, "It's boring for survivor because all you can do is hold W." and "It's boring for killer, because you just do this and get them." Where is the passion for playing killer? Because I do not see it.
Any time a killer is cited as being "boring" or "weak" in the way that y'all use those words, the devs respond by changing them to be even weaker and more counterable. So why do y'all keep doing it? Hillbilly, Freddy, Spirit, and Deathslinger were also "boring" and "uncounterable." I honestly think all killers are considered that way. So what are we gonna do? Never create strong killers?
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Your definitely one in a million I've played a few games and I still haven't played aginst him. This is the first time we're I haven't played aginst the new killer in 80% of my matches even artist was around for a week or two.
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ye its sad, i played like 1 round as knight today.
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"It's boring for killer, because you just do this and get them."
No, it's boring for killer because there's nothing you can do creatively using your power and instead you just have to hold a single button until you catch up.
There's no passion for playing that killer because there's nothing to do. It's literally just W key simulator because the second you use your power that's what it becomes, because that's the most effective counterplay possible.
Sadako, meanwhile, horrifically weak as a killer, I think we can all agree to that. But her power is just... useable. It's not good, and it's not strong, and it doesn't change the game in any meaningful way, but you can still teleport around the map and use your stealth and that's fun because I can utilise the unique kit the killer has been given.
Pyramid Head, pretty damn strong, his power works wonders, the skill expression you can get is just mwah, and there's very few tiles in the game you can't get use out of his power, be it zoning or actual hits.
Knight lacks anything that makes a killer fun or engaging to play to me, which is a unique power you can use and feel like you're getting value out of. Why play Knight when I could play Artist and get the same gameplay experience but better.
Also, I'm fairly certain most if not all of my comments about Knight have included that he's boring to play as well. Maybe you're just hyperfixating on the bit where I say he's boring to face, but I've absolutely said he's horrible to play too.
So why do y'all keep doing it? Hillbilly, Freddy, Spirit, and Deathslinger were also "boring" and "uncounterable."
Billy wasn't called boring or uncounterable- it was almost unanimously agreed that the only thing that needed changing was a select few add-ons, not butchering everything about him from his FOV to animations to power. Spirit is still very good in the right hands, she just had her skill floor raised. Freddy needed the Spirit treatment- raising his skill floor while keeping what was engaging and enjoyable about his power in tact- but instead he just got butchered. Slinger was overnerfed, there's no other real way to say that.
Any time a killer is cited as being "boring" or "weak" in the way that y'all use those words, the devs respond by changing them to be even weaker and more counterable.
I mean, people have been calling Nurse uncounterable for ages and asides from a change in January 2020 (which, remember, was going to kill the Nurse, but didn't and she returned to the best killer in DBD when they finally fixed her bugs), and Blight with certain add-ons and perks has been getting the same response recently and yet they're still alive and kicking and the top 2 Killers in all of DBD. Pretty sure Twins is next up to be changed, too, so we know that they're not on the chopping block yet either.
It's absolutely not every time (and sometimes, they just do it anyway, like Billy).
So what are we gonna do? Never create strong killers?
You can create strong killers who still are fun to play and fun to face. Basekit Blight and Oni are the 2 that spring to mind instantly, but I'm sure that people disagree and others would add more. Wesker would probably be pretty enjoyable to play and to face too if there was an option to sew his mouth shut, too.
Anyway, this comment has gone massively off topic, but I can promise you that I've been a lot more balanced in the comments about Knight I've been making, you just haven't been seeing it.
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yea i agree i had so much fun with him, the feeling of pushing survivors from loops or god pallets is really nice he does have some problems in small maps but hey no killer is perfect
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Let's be honest he is a worse nemisis that's is also m1
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Dredge and sadako are bad, the thing is the majority of players are so bad they will even die to them, hell even trapper got a sort of decent killrate, showing that some people will literally die to killers that should be a guaranteed 4 man escape.
Now what does the stats show us? That even the 5% best players are really bad at the game, ehich in turn means balancing for good players is not really a wise option for the devs.
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agreed, i've been having a ton of fun with him.
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for me, he's really fun to play as, but unfortunately, incredibly BORING to play against.
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From a new player's experience (albeit less informed, experienced and valuable) I have to personally hard disagree on this. I've had more fun playing against other killers than the knight. That's because I've felt like I've been able to stall properly against other killers on loops, but against the knights they just mostly instadrop their knight to get a hit and repeat this 2 times
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Damn, the mental gymnastics then. If people are having success with those killers how are the bad? Like on what level can you make that argument? Top 1%? Tournament play? Everyone being perkless and no add-ons? I'm trying to understand here under what circumstances those killers are bad in a practical and not theoretical way.
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They have a very high amount of counters and their skill expression is incredibly limited, you can be as skilled as you want with dredge but if people use one locker lock at a time and play loops safe, there is no reality in which that dredge gets more than a 1k, I play a lot of dredge/slinger, and each time I get a 4k I know the survivors had all the tools to destroy me comoletely but they somehow threw it out the window.
The fact that the majority of olayers somehow still manage to go down in safe loops against m1 killers show how little they know if the game, for example I have eon dredge games ON THE GAME, literally this should no the a possibility if my opponents had any idea how to play.
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No, no he is not.
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But you did not tell me under what circumstances those killers suck. With perks or no perks? If you play with full slowdown and survivors have no toolboxes or gen perks are they still supposed to win? Resources in that case can end quicker than the gens are done and as it is currently as far as I know the game is designed so that survivors go down quicker than they used to. are you going to chase the survivor you know is good at chases or go find someone else? I feel you're talking about an ideal situation where every survivor is a god looper and knows every map like the back of their hand, but that is not reality except maybe at top 1%, but killers don't have that requirement to 3k or 4k. Does it help to know the loops sure, but if you know you got an easy target it's gg.
As far as skill expression if I'm not wrong the way I understand is that they're sort of one-dimentional and mechanically simple, is that right? For the most part it seems that BHVR doesn't want its killers to be that mechanically demanding (like say Nurse or Blight and maybe even Wesker) for accessibility purposes but it's also excepted that one-dimentional killers are by default more predictable. I would like it if there were killers who required more skill because for survivors that would mean they don't have to rely to rely only on pallets which are a limited resource. Like two days ago I versed a Nurse and managed to run her at the start of the game for around 3 mins (I did have DH so that helped once) until she left after 2 gens got done and at the end of the game I had her chase me for 2 more mins. The team fell really easily to her (I even have a thread about it cause it was so funny) and that was a fun game no doubt so I would not be against adding more mechanically demanding killers which usually also gives them more options to do more stuff.
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Ironically this killer is exactly how most people want Spirit to play out. They don't want the killer to get a hit despite spawning on them. They want them to spawn close and then still have to waste time in a chase. It's really hypocritical that these same people chip in now and are like, "Yeah! Buff the Knight!" It's kind of like a, "Let's agree with whatever's popular" thing. You know what I'm sayin'?
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Fun?
Besides that being completely subjective, I really don't think many people find anti loop 'hold W' killers fun in any way.
The entire design denies the most fun part of DBD - the mind games and playing off your opponent. This killer is just block loop, survivor presses W, follow to next loop, block loop and repeat.
That isn't to have a go at BHVR either as coming up with new ideas must be getting tough, just don't believe anti loop killers are a good way forward for the game.
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I love going against The Knight and love the idea of his power, I just hate how weak and survivor friendly his power is. It's frustrating because this killer is one of the coolest we got so far and it's been kinda ruined by bad power design.
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Glad you’re enjoying him. I think his power is more or less a failed experiment that will never be balanced and fun at the same time
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Sure if you think getting tunneled/camped/slugged almost every match is fun. This game is getting more and more stale as time goes on.
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yea, you appreciate the good moments more, if you go in expecting to lose
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most fun?....100% no.
if fun means to hold m2 to force survivors to hold W or pre-drop a pallet to avoid dying against the guards,repeat over and over...
+The AI for the guards sometimes can be good and the next time they can be as useless and buggy as the zombies AI.
and for survivor be forced to not do any mindgame and just hold forward everytime the knight put his sword down is soooo exhausting..and uninteresting to go against (same with the bait playstile that some people are using - Press m2 cancel them m1)
I rather prefer going against a BLIGHT running alch ring + 4 slowndowns than going against the knight.
as survivor
nottaking the visuals in mind, he feels like artist + old pyramid head but way more easy to counter because DH exist to use the guards as free Sprint Burst and more boring to face because you cant loop him and guards are just ghosts that basically do m1 attacks totally not even taking risk to use because zoning people for free its FUN RIGHT.JEEEZ maybe nerfing the killer is a bad idea , but dear lord allow survivor to atleast be able to stun guards with pallets so there is something we can do for gameplay instead of HOLDING W.. at the end he also shares the same problem with Trickster as well.
(HARD TO BE BALANCED WITHOUT THE KILLER BEING EITHER TOO OPRESSIVE OR TOO WEAKER)
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Sorry but having to deal with multiple killers at a time plus broken perks and who has way too much info on where survivors are is not fun for me. I hated Artist and I hate the Knight even more.
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