So bHVR hows the Knight performing atm?
I have seen so many Knight buff suggestions, this forum has really become a hot house, but suggesting buffs is like playing Poker with no hands here. We need perspective, I want to know is the Knight performing as you expected or wanted or are there detectable hiccups already? Love to know what's on your mind rn as we all play Knight atm.
Hopefully I'm not the only one craving this perspective?
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I don't know why Peanits is silent about it. This is a important topic that need immediate attention to and discussed about the knight.
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I think the Killer is way too buggy right now to asses how really performs, he can lose his power entirely for the rest of the match, he can get a speed increase making him faster than Hillbilly, he can get free DH while camping, the pathfinding is busted (minions sometimes just follow the exact same route the Survivor is taking instead of cutting corners) etc.
Imagine losing your power 10 seconds into the trial, is that 4E valid data? or getting the speed bug where you catch to Survivors in less than 2 seconds, is that 4K valid data? First they should fix most of his bugs, then we can see how bad or good he is.
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Well I imagine they REALLY don't want to talk about numbers that are uncertain, and early numbers ARE uncertain.
But also if the Community is concerned, Surely bHVR should say something to it, even tho its generic standard answer.
We take your feedback seriously and we are gathering data, with your patience yada yada we will get to it.
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How's Onryo performing? And how high on the tierlist would you like to put her up?
That's what's going to happen
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Currently Knight does have the lowest Kill Rate on nightlight.
Take that as you will. I'm not sure I can put too much faith in it.
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Currently I remember devs ain't gonna make any snap decisions for buffs the first month cause players need to adjust to the killer
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Even pre release after i played him on the PTB i was like "nah he aint gonna be strong, but he will be fun, i just have to learn him"
but honestly, no. My first match after knight i felt like.. no im not gonna. Too buggy, too predictable too less reward for the amount of outplays only his power gives him. I can see some good add on combinations but his main mechanic is still an issiue. I would open a post but there is like so much, i dont even know what to suggest at this point since my suggestions in the PTB feedback ALL got ignored. And i wasnt the only one saying basic things like "dont let survivors see the orbs" or "why do the flags give them endurance and speedboost?" So i dont bother about him no more alredy, i will play him like very rarely, if at all.
And for reference, i play 24 killers, switching regularly between them for who ever i am in the mood to. the likes of Sadako, Pig, trickster included. FREDDY being litteraly my main. I started with all once, had my first survivor game with all of them, knowing having to adapt to their powers and learning how to play them best.. Not one of em got me unpleased from the start as much as him.
And the 1 game i hade in online lobby today with him wasnt even that bad. It was a 4-man escape but i made whopping 30k bloodpoints. I could actually hook them quite often, been able to mindgame them at loops and what not. He CAN do what other killers can aswell. But its harder with him. At least sadako and freddy have some teleport which gives them a good chunk of pressure and pig has her traps going for her. Knights abillity is super clunky and unrewarding except for camping. And i think that was the only reason they didnt escape so early for how easy they avoided knights power.
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Peanits already discussed i think. The statistics for a killer are not relevant until large amount of games have been played. In general, it takes 2-3 months for any statistic to be relevant. Knight's statistic will be weird until jan-feb of 2023. They will figure out he is weak killer after 3 months. By the time they figure out that he is weak killer, they are lazy to do any changes, so the killer sits there for eternity.
Most killer player just move on by that point to play their mains/favourite killers. Now a days though, I usually get to play vs knight for like 5-10 times for 1st week and then the killer just never get played after that because many killer players just skip trying to play a weak killer to avoid the stress.The killer only get leveled for this perks and if the perk is not good enough to compete with meta, the perk does not get selected.
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They knew the issues since ptb
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Pretty sure they've said before that they usually give killers a few months before judging their performance. I'm assuming to give players time to learn to play him.
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The Knight just came out. They probably need much more data before any buff can be considered. We wouldn't want a Thana situation where they hotfix the killer in a terrible way just because people were vocal about it.
On Nightlight, the killer's got a slightly subpar kill rate at the moment, and even though new killers might usually have the opposite, Knight is also harder to play. He's arguably the most "balanced" (and take that word with a huge grain of salt) a killer's come out, with an around 50% killrate on nightlight, the site being constituted of a better than average survivor demographic.
Maybe Knight really just needs a bugfix and time to learn how to play him.
Maybe he does need buffs.
That's why they need a couple of months worth of data, in my opinion.
Post edited by HugTheHag on2 -
Is that site actually accurate? The average kill rate they currently have for all killers is 6.5% lower than the official ones.
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It's self reported, iirc.
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Probably because he is new and most players will play him once get a 0k and give up
Not saying he’s good but killers like dredge and sadako have high kill rates so it’s more than just how strong the killer is
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Sadako has one extremely lethal playstyle and Dredge isn't bad per se.
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It's too early to really tell. Plus he's buggy as hell which doesn't help. Regardless of playstyle, Sadako is a good example of the community screaming weak, even if her kill rates say otherwise.
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People only figured out about that playstyle a few months after her release so the stats still count pretty well
Dredge definitely isn’t bad but has the same issue as knight where holding W destroys him (except when he’s occansionally in nightfall)
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Unfortunately I think we need to see him actually work without bugs before attempting balance. I've had so many games where my power either doesn't work/disappear or I get stuck in the summon guard pose.
Once he's actually working and we can see how he actually performs we can address possible buffs.
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How can people reach the conclusion that Nightlite is a playerbase that is better on average. The Dredge has around 53% killrate on there but on the stats we got shown by BHVR he was up to 60%. Same with Pinhead. On Nightlight he has a measly 51%. The Artist has 48%. What? Are those killrates averaged with killrates before patch 6.1? I'm so confused at what I'm seeing on there vs what people are saying😵
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I think they're better on average but I admit I could be wrong. My logic is that most people don't know Nightlight exists unless they've been playing a long while, or stumbled upon it on the forums.
As for the lower kill rates, I think maybe it might be that mostly survivors update (since 4 v 1) and some don't update their 0E
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Jeez you're actually right holy #########, even the Twins have better kill rate lol
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Probably good to note that Nightlight is also really only used by English speakers. Gaming is extremely popular in Asian regions but you probably won't get a lot of data from there on Nightlight.
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That's a really good observation, we really act like we're the only ones playing it (I mean I'm not even from an english speaking country but I'm still from Europe)
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Oh they’re well aware they pushed Knight out of PTB way too early. They simply didn’t care enough to bench him for longer in PTB to get his power to a reasonable level, and iron out the bugs players mention in the PTB.
When you introduce a new killer with a somewhat complex power an extra extended PTB is needed. The devs can’t predict how the guards will interact with the environment or survivors as they haven’t made a killer power like this before.
I’m sure we’ll end up getting some hog washed excuse something to the extent of we needed to push the killer onto live servers so we could better evaluate his power…
To put it into perspective….
The Knight wasn’t ready for release. But they made sure the cosmetics skins were to help promote the killer.
Yup.
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It's too early to tell but I'd be interested to see killer stats again around New Years. It'll be interesting to see if we're in an onryo situation where knight is okay but just insanely complicated or a trickster situation where they really do need buffs.
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Onryo is probably the opposite of knight. Really simple power so easy to master with great mobility. Knight is probably more like Trickster. Difficult power that can be strong but also lacks mobility.
I don't think he's as weak as people are making him out to be. He's definitely not in the A tier and could use some QoL improvements to make his power easier to use effectively.
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As always, we try to let things settle before making any significant changes. The first few weeks tend to be very unreliable when it comes to performance. People need time to learn how to play as and against them. Even if the feedback ends up being totally on point in the end, it's safest to wait and be sure rather than making sweeping changes for something that turns out to not be as big of an issue as we initially thought. This early on, we're mostly focused on glaring issues that need to be resolved ASAP and bugs that may impact them (we have a few fixes in the works, more info on that will be shared today).
That said, we see all the posts, they are not going unnoticed. The team is well aware and will be keeping all of it in mind when it comes time to review.
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Hey, Thanks for the openness. Even tho I know how bHVR operates at this point, its still great to get told it again and again that you ae listening.
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I think this approach is fair for the most part. That said the issues with The Knight and his map are so glaring that waiting weeks might be highly detrimental. People have already stopped playing as him, Killers immediately DC when they get his map, Survivors (especially SWF) will bring his map offering for an easy win, and multiple high profile streamers demonstrate a level of disdain for Knight I have never seem from them.
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Not seen any other killer get this much stick apart from Trickster and PTB Ghostface.
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Called it they won't decide on Buffs for the knight until next month when they review
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trickster dont deserve it though XD
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He did on release week. Barely face him nowadays though.
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Because once Survivors are decent, there's not much you can do as Knight.
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was he like ghostface busted on the PTB?
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Yeah he was awful. He had horrendous recoil and people hated his slow movement speed. They used to call him depipster 🤣
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Because casuals, the probably least invested and mechanical worst part of the player base, couldn't be bothered to take a screenshot after each game, then go to a Web page, make an account and upload all those screenshot and THEN verify and edit each one by hand.
Only players who are seriously invested in the game would do this chore ... like me :)
Killers like Pinhead are notorious noob stompers, but crumbled a bit under the weight of proper applied SWF and that know the proper counter to his power, ie the importance of box management. Most players uploading to Nightlight thus won't die as much to Pinhead, resulting in his significantly lower kill rate there, compared to his overall stats that include all kills, be then hight tier SWF or 20h fresh soloQ.
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Ok but again how does this tie in again with top 5% MMR. Pinhead and Sadako as well as Dredge still come up on the top half.
Nightlife doesn't seem representative of either. So either they're average and that's why it doesn't line up and it will when BHVR releases escape rates by MMR (if they ever do) or something weird is going on.
As much stuff as we throw to BHVR they still have more tools to collect stats than Nightlife and they are more impartial than people self-reporting. Just cause someone bothers to screenshot and report doesn't mean they're good though, more invested? Definitely, but in any competitive game most people are stuck in Like mid to low MMR and they play ranked to get that result which means they are indeed invested enough.
It simply seems very weird to me that is has such a huge disparity between what we got from BHVR and what we see in Nightlight. I mean I read posts all the time about SWF that you would thing they make up at least 50% of the playerbase but 4man SWF is like 5%? Less than that, but that's such a big topic that anyone who has no idea can actually believe that it's more common than it is. I'm just confused that is all.
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