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Changes to the hatch
I feel like, I get punished for playing well as killer with how the hatch currently works. I don't have a problem with giving the last survivor a second chance, but if I as killer find the hatch first, the survivor gets another second chance, because the gates are getting powered.
Therefore I suggest these changes to the behaviour of the hatch:
1. If the killer closes the hatch before all generators are completed, endgame collapse doesn't start and the gates are not powered. The last survivor has to complete the remaining generators and open an exit gate to escape or reopen the hatch with a key. After the hatch is closed, the killer is able to open an exit gate to trigger endgame collapse normally, regardless of not all generators being completed, if he wishes to end the game.
-> Why should the survivor get the option to open a gate for free, after the killer found the hatch first? The rest of the team died and the killer found the hatch first, so you lost entirely and should be punished for that.
2. If the exit gates are powered, the hatch can no longer spawn.
-> Why have a secondary escape option, if the primary one is available?
Comments
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Point 1: Not good. This would mean that Hostage Situations can take place. Yes, the Killer can open the Exit Gate in this case, however, if they dont want to do that, the Survivor has no chance of getting out of the match by any means. There is a reason why EGC starts and Gates are powered when the Hatch is closed, to give the last Survivor an actual incentive to keep playing.
Point 2: Pointless, really. The only purpose of the Hatch is this case are some extra BPs. No point in changing that.
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Point 1: The last survivor actually has still the abillity to escape, so an incentive, but it becomes extremely difficult, what I was intending with this change, because in this situation the team failed to repair the generators and the last survivor failed again to find the hatch first.
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There would be no point in the last survivor trying to finish the remaining generators on their own. Maybe in some niche cases if there's only 1 gen left, but anything more than that and it's just pointless. The hatch, and by extension, the gates being powered when hatch is closed, are mechanics intended to bring the game to a close and give the survivor an opportunity to escape and not just hide from the killer as long as possible, as often happens in 2v1s.
If you got a 3k, you won, regardless of whether you get the 4th kill or not.
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Exactly. I am find with the way the Endgame Collapse currently works, all maybe except for 99% exit gates strategy system Survivors can do.... but that is more of swf problem then anything.
If by chance the killer is able to get a 3k and is down to the last Survivor, typically 2 or less Survivors are not doing gens unless it is the last one. And once the 3rd kill is made, it is a race to find the hatch or stand by the gate and prepare to start it up as soon as the killer close the hatch. I am fine with Survivor having two options of escape, technically three if the exit gates are not in close proximity and in sight by the killer. Plus, if a survivor brought or find a key in advance, they can still get used of it to open a close hatch.
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You can slug for 4k refusing any second chances if you're so petty about that
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No... just no. You're being incredibly one sided with these ideas and falling on the assumption that the killer basically deserves to win because they found the hatch first even when it sometimes spawns right by them. The idea of the last survivor having to complete the remaining generators and open the door is basically a death sentence for the survivor. They might as well give up at that point. All you'd have to do is patrol the generators until the last survivor is either found or just gives up after realizing the hopeless situation they are in. The killer would NEVER open the gate themselves if they are trying to win. That is not a fair trade off to support this idea.
The last survivor should not be punished for the incompetence of their team. It doesn't matter if you found the hatch first. Sometimes the hatch spawns right at your feet, same with survivors. The last survivor also doesn't get to "open a gate for free." Unless the survivor is running all of the exit gate speed boost perks, you're most likely going to win the exit gate fight. I basically feel obligated to use sole survivor and wake up in all my builds now as a backup escape plan when I'm the last survivor. Even with those perks you're not guaranteed to escape. You have to time your dash to the exit gate just right and hope the killer doesn't do a quick turn and sees you there.
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I have to admit I kind of understand what he meant in the first place... The survivor already got a 2nd chance with hatch after he and his team failed to do the objective and now he gets a third one... That's kind of rough...
The hatch can also spawn right under the survivors feet so that argument does not really work... It is a stupid luck/rng dependant mechanic... And I'd much rather have something more skillfull instead of it... I mean sure, it is a death sentence at that point... But the survivor already had a 2nd chance to get out with hatch? What else do you want the killer to do? 1. Find hatch first 2. Hope the survivor was not waiting at a door 3. Patrol Gates 3. Hope the survivor does not have (found) a key 4. Hope Gates are positioned in a way that makes it possible to patrol them properly... Rng in this game is just so annoying sometimes... Usually gate spawns are really onsided and never really fair... Having both on one side visible from a spot 30m away from both and so on...
Why should the last survivor not be punished for his teams mistakes? He was part of the team?? Then how about we make it something more skillfull for the last survivor?
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The core of the issue here is, you don't deserve to kill 4 survivors, just because you killed the first 3. You haven't earned 4 kills, you earned 3, now you have to earn the 4th on top of that.
The game should not be constructed in a way that the final survivor doesn't have a chance.
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would agree with you on point 2 now that you mention it. if the gates are on, also having the hatch is too good for the survivors, they already have 2 doors, would be more interesting for the match if they have to use them instead of also having a random hatch. or at the very least the aura of the hatch should be visible to the killer so that he knows were the third option is, would make those situations more interesting and more killer sided, they are too survivor sided if it comes to gates plus hatch.
but point 1... i mean, when im playing killer i dont like it when i do very well and the last survivor evades me because luck is on their side, but when i play survivor that hatch/gate endgame is sometiimes the hope that makes you want to still play the match, plus when a survivor escapes using hatch or gates after hatch is closed.... that is not a real escape, i wouldnt count that as you losing a survivor, the killers has to kill 3 survivors to win, the fourth one is just the cherry.
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But then again ... The killer did everything he could have done that was available to accomplish with his skill... And then just because of luck, on which he had no impact whatsoever he does not get what was so close yet so far? The objecive was for the entire game and just because the one left is the last one does not mean he should get a higher chance to get out based on pure luck... If you introduce a mechanic based on skill that lets him outplay the killer for some time and get rewarded for it fair enough but RNG is so annoying ...
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MMR wise I think hatch does get counted as neither win nor loss... Which is fair I think.
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So accept the 3K as the win, because it is.
The hatch is not a true escape, it's a commiseration prize. Stop sweating for the 4K.
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Most of the time I don't care about the hatch neither as killer nor as survivor, can't be asked to run across the map not getting anything of value out of it anyway... But like I said I would rather have a fun more skillfull thing instead of the hatch play, because winning with that would actually feel rewarding instead of just getting lucky...
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I guess the only time when I cared about that was when getting adepts... Because often that last escaping survivor was all that kept you apart from the adept...
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How do you do that without tipping the scales in favour of one side or the other too much?
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My concept idea would be:
- Pallets on the map get resetted up to x % so the map is not entirely dry... Also the resetted pallets should be equally spread all over the place... If the map already has above x% of the total pallets no pallets get reset
- Exit gates cannot be opened, Survivor and Killer have permanent aura reading of each other regardless of perks or killer abilites UNTIL a chase gets started or they get in XY m distance of each other... I'm not entirely sure what I would make it depend on because some killers like nurse can basically get a hit without even having to start a chase, but others do need to get closer just so they don't get surprised by stealth.. Maybe something in between... The permanent aura reading stops after they get in the teror radius but to prevent stealth styles you see the aura of each other every xy seconds for a short amount of time until a chase gets started... If you loose chase unlucky I guess... (110% killers on midwich would be a nightmare... The survivor could just run around the thing endlessly... But hey not everything is perfect...)
- Some perks get disabled during that time for example oneshot down perks stealth perks and so on... I would need to make a more indepth list about what perks could kind of cheese this mechanic and making it basically worthless, but for now I would say perks that give one side a major advantage over the other basically compeltely negating the whole thing...
- When you are the last survivor a timer of let's say 5 minutes or so starts... Just to prevent endless games
- When the chase/xy m requirement is met a second timer starts... The survivor now has to stay alive for as long as he can... He will get a specific amount of bloodpoints for x amount of seconds he stays alive... I don't have any concrete numbers in mind here, so this would be up for debate.
- The bonus per time they stay alive varies from killer to killer, just so you get more points for a shorter time against nurse than for example against Trapper or so...
- If the survivor manages to stay alive for the duration of the 2nd timer that started when the chase/xy m of distance started they will immediatly escape... Maybe just spawn hatch directly under their feet and escape automatically or something...
- The killer also gets bonus bloodpoints in general and his bonus gets higher the faster he gets the survivor, also depending on which killer he is playing... So you can take longer to catch them as trapper as you can as nurse
- Bloodlust is deactivated in this scenario since you could use it to guarantee hits in a way that would negate the sense of this whole "Endgame Chase Scenario"
I might have not taken some things into account, but we can also add other stuff... So this version is not final just my current thoughts on what to do instead... I also thought about something like teleporting both parties to shack resetting all pallets and then doing the whol thing, but that would be ridiculous, a nurse would instantly hit you xD But could also work something out in that case... Maybe just nurse gets stunned immediatly and her charges need to refil or something like that...
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The last survivor should not be punished for their team's mistakes because you can't control what other people do. It doesn't matter if they are part of the team. Half the time I feel like I don't even have a team. Being punished for simply hitting the ready button and getting matched with random people who may or may not play like you isn't fair. Yes I do agree there should be a skill element for the last survivor. There should never be a situation where the last survivor is caught in a "game over" moment because the killer found you after closing the hatch. Honestly what can you do at that point? Nothing. You can't run the killer enough where you'll gain enough distance to finish opening the exit gates. If the killer finds you after the hatch is closed, you lose. There is no point in even running. You're only delaying the inevitable. I've had too many matches where the killer found the hatch almost instantly and then a moment later found me. That is not fair. Those situations should never happen. If the last survivor is able to evade the killer in a chase after the hatch is closed why should the end result always be the last survivor dying? If you want to talk about skill, THAT is when the last survivor should be rewarded for their efforts instead of punished for it.
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Why is only the killer expected to not go for easier choices and earn the goal? Shouldnt survivors be content with what they achieved in atrial too if they failed the gen phase? It seems quite hypocritical, but maybe its just my bias (or the communiity's)
Survivors are literally given up to 6/7 interactions needed to escape ( the 7th) for the collossal work of... being the last man standing. They somehow deserve to escape despite not doing the gens or open the gens? Not to mention the third chance if the hatch gets closed.
Although my opinion differs, I dont think the hatch can change as survivors would potentially go back to stalling games once an escape becomes unlikely.
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But it is a team game... Of course you should get punished for your teams mistakes, yeah it is not fair but that's how it goes... Just think of Oni or Myers... Both capitalize on weak links and you might get punished for your teams mistakes... You need to see it from both sides... At some point it should just be over... You cannot expect the killer to basically win 4 times...
But in the end I want something skillfull at the end and not some random spawning thing...
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Back in the old days you had to have 1 Gen left for the hatch to open. Still don’t know why they changed it to any amount. I had a five Gen game earlier and it spawned under the survivor I was chasing. Stupid RNG seems to do that often.
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