Just pointing out how much Circle of Healing is stacked.
>Boon Perk so it provides buff to entire team
>Provides Botany Knowledge-level of boost
>Provides unlimited source of Self-Heals
>It's based on 50% Self-Care instead of nerfed 35% version
>The boost stacks with Med-Kits but unlike Botany Knowledge, it doesn't have Med-Kit efficiency penalty
>Stacks with other Self-Heal boots
>Compared to other Boon Perks, it is usually placed in a corner where Killer has no business going to which makes it gain even more value
Just.... What. Is there any Killer Perk even remotely close to how stacked CoH is? Closest is Eruption or Overcharge but it still exceeds either of them in terms of how much this Perk has.
Comments
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It's certainly strong but it's been triple nerfed to the point of fairness IMO, what more do you want
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Do like I did. If you see so many circle of healing perks, try to use shattered hope (generic perk for killers) so you go in a far corner of the map and destroy that damn totem :D
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CoH is still OP imo.
Also self-care nerf was too much. Without any other self healing perk it is trash and you can consider it Killer perk since the healing takes forever.
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I think its mostly fine. But I wouldn't be opposed if it didn't work with Medkits or other Healing perks
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Self-care is truly a 5th killer perk now. That's why I run inner healing so I can immediately heal without wasting 45 (or more) seconds to scratch my stomach.
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Triple nerfed and still is insanely strong.
Also, you can Self-Heal with it, next to teammate who's working on a Gen. You may have Prove Thyself which for some reason has 4m range.
And that Self-Heal can be with Med-Kit. So imagine 10s Self-Heal (at weakest) and teammate doing Gen 15% faster.
UHHHHH.... I don't think this is even remotely balanced.
Shattered Hope hits other Boon Perks more than CoH. Just saying. Mainly because of how CoH is used.
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Overall, imagine a Perk that provides Self-Care with 2 stacks of Desperate Measures (28% but cut in half results in 14% speed increase. (49% vs 50% basically)), Botany Knowledge and, on Med-Kits, Streewise (because no Med-Kit effieciency penalty compared to Botany.)
TO EVERYONE.
Just... What.
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How would you nerf the perk to bump it out of being incredibly good while retaining the core aspects and effects of the perk and not creating yet another useless survivor perk, further limiting the already slim meta?
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It has been nerfed 3 times already.
How long does it take you to improve and adapt?
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There are many good Healing Perks that are just... Never used.
We'll Make It, Inner Healing (Inner Strength), Renewal (Second Wind), Desperate Measures, heck even Empathic Connection and Leader.... Adrenaline!
But pretty much all of them basically have some sort of requirement, risk in order to be used.
Just... Why bother with other Healing Perks that are not only decent but also, usually considered, more fun to use? Just run CoH, Bless same Totem in a corner where Killer doesn't want to go and it's usually time neutral or positive.
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Circle of healing is the most op and used perk for survivors,but just because its been nerfed its fair?
Why do survivors has to have unlimited advantage againts the weakest killers,m1 ones that actually care about healing.
Circle of healing is like holding a survivor hand,oh dont worry,I got you,you can have unlimited heals for just booning for 14 seconds,if the killer wants to get rid of it,he has to come to this corner of the map and snuff it out,but then dont worry,you can boon it again and again for an unlimited amount of time.
The perk would still be op even it he healing speed was only 35%
They need to put a limit on it,how many time you can use it to heal or a cooldown,its hilarious people use the fact its been nerfed as an excuse.
Its an easy crutch for survivor.
Dont forget you can pari botany knowledge with it and get unlimited 100% heals,people actually defend this lmfao.
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I'm not saying it does need a nerf or rework but you could rework circle of healing entirely. There was an idea I saw that makes it so it provides a passive heal to a certain extent and that seems pretty interesting. Although you would still need to buff all of the other boon perks too.
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That doesn't answer my question.
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Which would still retain the core aspects and effects of the perk (healing yourself and others) but would also retain the issues the perk has (it's the only boon that doesn't need the killer to be nearby the get the full effect
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Tbf, it depends how fast is said passive heal and how it is affected by Perks.
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And how it acts when you actually preform Self-Heal action like Self-Care.
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I don't think CoH is a big deal for most of the roster as they either have good mobility or end chases quickly. But if you play clown for example are you probably gonna get destroyed if they have CoH? Probably but you're clown you were probably going to get destroyed anyway unless your using pinky finger in which case who cares if they heal?
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Its existence denies hit and run, denies injuring people as pressure, and in general has caused the same problem since it released: if one person brings it, now everyone else can get away without medkits or spending a perk on healing. There's no additional cost to healing beyond the injured person--otherwise, they'd either need their own perk, or a medkit, or for someone else to invest their time.
Free teamwide healing that can be placed in a safe area is bad.
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Revert the speed to 100%
Make it only apply to altruistic heals
Injured survs within the boon's radius have their aura revealed to all other survivors in/ out the radius.
That's what I'd do. (You can keep the 50% heal speed/old self care, if you're so keen)
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Don't forget it stacks with Med-Kits.
At minimum, 150% Self-Heal speed. And yes, you can increase it well above 200%. Sub 8s Self-Heals!
Inner Healing, has limited amount of uses and is 8s BUT you have to find Totem, go to Locker and then Heal. You can spend a bit more time in Locker and you can just Built to Last that strong Med-Kit.
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Botany doesn't make it 100%
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hit and run WAS NEVER GOOD against good survivors so who cares? Its literally called hit and run YOU Aren't gonna win noting by hit and run especially on a killer who has no map pressure
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There's a difference between 'not good' and 'totally dead'. CoH in play requires committing to chases.
Also, everyone being able to free self-heal off one perk is part of why some killers have so much less map pressure.
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Just to point out, CoH is pretty standard for at least one survivor on every match now and the killer success rate is 60+ percent.
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Circle of Healing isn't a fix-all type perk and you'll see several on a team comprised of solo players, but more coordinated SWFs generally only bring one. This makes the statistics shake out in a way that makes it seem like a relatively balanced perk. As a team perk, it also gets shielded from overuse nerfs. BHVR probably has better things to do than adjust a seemingly balanced perk that functions properly despite the fact that it overshadows other good healing perks and makes renders Self-Care obsolete.
It should definitely receive a nerf, but its got Nurse syndrome.
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With that change it would be another perk that only SWF can get real value of as for soloQ it would be really hard to coordinate heals.
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****why has nobody replied with just do bones, when that's been the acceptable answer all along for anything totem related****
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Sadly BHVR made doing bones a perk. Real shame about Shattered Hope.
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That's such a poor argument. A perk can be nerfed a thousand times but that doesn't necessarily mean it's fair or balanced
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That's why i suggested the aura reading, to help solos coordinate heals.
If nothing else, keeping the ability to heal at old self care speeds guarantees at least a singular method of reliable healing. (Obligatory self care didn't deserve to be gutted here)
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- Selfcare should not be used anymore.
- Botany comes with the cost of Brown medkits are useless to you, if you get a Brown Medkit in match, you can not use for yourself, you should give to others. Why you should use Botany when you give the Medkit to others?
- Pharmacy has to be injured. If you're in chase, most of the time you down and hooked. If teammate unhook you, why you should waste a huge time to find chests and get Green medkit and self heal, when you only need 16sec for teammate to heal you
- Sloppy buffed with Haemorrhage effect, many Killers use the perk, or with addon with same effect. Cause no one use Solidarity, Reactive healing, Resurgence.
In the end, despite many nerfs, Coh still stand at the top. Because other healing perks are heavily nerfed.
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It’s still the most overpowered survivor perk imo despite its many nerfs.
But boons as a whole need changes
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The scenario you're talking about requires prior knowledge of someone bringing CoH so really you're just talking about SWFs which have always been difficult to deal with and yes the perk is stronger in a SWF then in random solo lobbies which yeah I don't love that but I'm not sure how you would change that without changing the perk entirely and I think it's fine in solo lobbies.
I don't think a lot of killer really do hit and run anymore besides wraith, dredge, twins, onyro and legion. Nobody even plays twins, healing against legion is a waste of time, Dredge has good enough antiloop that they can kinda work around it, Onryo has an entire strategy centered around getting 4ks without ever hooking anyone so really the only killer there that gets destroyed by it is wraith who's low tier and my entire point is CoH mostly just destroys killers that arn't that good anyway.
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It used to be overpowered but after the nerfs it’s just strong. Survivors still have to spend time boon-ing the totem and they have to spend time to run back to it.
As usual with killers, it’s really not the perk that the problem, it’s the maps (which will never be made fair). Just identify the weak link and remove them from the match.
I do think that Shattered Hope should have been a base-kit ability for killers and that Undying should be reverted to what it was on release. Survivors whines about having to cleanse too many totems but they have no problem wasting time with boons. Bring back Undying to make hex builds more viable.
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which sucks if your build is about killer hexes
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Add a CD debuff on it. The more you Boon a totem, the more time is required to boon it.
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boons are literally used every match, killers shouldn't sacrifice a slot just for this
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If you can say that a nerf is not needed on the grounds that it has been nerfed multiple times, then you should not nerf the nurse.
However, there is little need for a nerf to the COH itself. If anything, I would rather seek a base kit for Shuttered Hope.
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BHVR should've removed boons in the first patch after their release and admitted the idea was terrible. Instead they release perhaps the most laughable 'bandaid perk' in the whole game with Shattered Hope.
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Even with aura reading there is no way of comunicating the other players that you want to be healed.
And the one injured in the boon area does not know if another survivor is coming to heal him so you could be wasting time waiting meaningless.
I dont know, i think soloQ could not effectively use it.
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My suggestion is to make it only able to heal 2/2/3 people's health states, then snuffs itself. Leave all other numbers the same.
Can be re-blessed, costing time. I think that is a fair trade off instead of an infinite heal zone.
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If I remember correctly, Boons became a thing at all because killers complained about survivors just doing gens. Devs wanted survivors to have a second objective but it had to be optional because if it takes survivors too long to complete gens, they’re not gonna escape. And if the escape rate goes too low, they’ll have issues. Every Boon besides CoH pretty much sucks and no new booms have been released because they essentially become useless perks.
Devs haven’t nerfed the Gen regression/slowdown meta but they have released perks to somewhat balance that. Believe it or not the devs know they can’t make playing survivor feel hopeless. There has to be at least some inkling that survivors could possibly escape the trial.
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That's precisely the problem. Any second objective would involve a deep reworking of the basic game flow so that survivors aren't just sitting on gens while not in chase, but without making the gens take so much longer they can't escape.
Boons were obviously never such a thing, because being optional, they only get used if the survivor thinks they are worth the time investment. That's why only CoH and maybe Shadowstep ever get used. Basically, if they were intended to be a second objective, BHVR compromised themselves into making a system that's actually much closer to a second objective for the killer.
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Devs love survivors and like watching killer players suffer because they have no idea because they don't test it themselves
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Devs couldn’t rework the Gen system to require additional incentives (like collecting parts before repair) without heavily rebalancing the game. I think they believed boons would allure survivors into getting off the gens (and at least for CoH in solo queue, it works) to interact with another aspect of the game. But it has to be like something survivors see value in doing. No one really runs boons besides CoH and Shadow Step (much less commonly) because they provide a clear usefulness. But even so, they’re not exactly gamebreaking. I see so many solo queue games where survivors throw the game by wasting time Re-booning totems—even when there are 2-3 survivors remaining in the trial. Before Self-care’s recent nerf I saw it more than CoH.
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Joke's on you, I only play Plague
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By "triple-nerfed" they mean "self-healing takes a whole 2 seconds longer now and other, assisted healing is still massively faster".
The "nerfs" to CoH were a joke.
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How is it strong, but fair? When it's anything killer has that's strong, it's unfair.
Let's just agree that boons were a bad idea and scrap them. You can't balance a perk like this.
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CoH is the only boon that gets value from being in an area where there are no objectives and no reason for the killer to go there.
The other boons only help if you're interacting with the killer, but CoH works best when set at an empty area of the map.
Survivors can run to the booned area and heal up while the killer is busy near the active gens with the other survivors - setting it up away from the action pretty much guarantees that the survivor will be healed without issue.
Its particularly bad for the territorial killers like Trapper and Hag - they have the choice to go after the healing survivor by leaving their protected area, trudging halfway across the map, finding the boon and snuffing it then trudging back across the map to their protected area. By which point the gens are flying and any traps are disarmed or at the least discovered.
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When I've used Shattered Hope, I've been able to use it maybe half the time, and of those times it didn't stop boons from going down on other totems. So there's basically no point.
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