General Discussions
General Discussions
The Medkit Meta pain
Otz shows the frustration of medkits being so strong
Comments
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otz's ending on the video is exactly my thoughts when dev post kill-rates or when posts talks about "What should killer kill-rate be?". It is not problem about winning. it is about having fun with other killers. Otz is pure gold at the end.
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Medkits have definitely been too strong for a very long time. Seeing 4 medkits in lobby lowers your chance of winning significantly. Items should not be that game swinging.
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Run Franklin's. That still leaves room for 3 gen slowdown perks
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The game is purposefully unbalanced towards killers with 60% kill rate average. stop. just stop.
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Can you blame them? Medkit is the most consistently good item there is.
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oh no a 60%, oh no how will pig or any killer that can't cross the map in 3 seconds pressure them healing in their precious boons
60% is because survivors gave up, at the start of the patch but i doubt u will like my answer
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Well the majority of them just tunnel and get a 4k because it's handed to them on a silver plate with how easy killer is now, if you're not getting a 3-4k as any killer after that dreadful update that unbalanced the game then it's a skill issue.
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and there is the survivor mentality everyone loves
a killer chooses to not tunnel or play scummy, skill issue
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It's a skill issue when they DO tunnel because they're showing they don't have skill and it's also a skill issue if they don't win without tunnelling because of how easy it is. Simple x
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Selfcare nerf
Botany nerf
Pharmacy nerf
Sloppy render Solidarity, Resurgence, Reactive healing useless
BP being too easy to earn
Item/addon are much cheaper
There is no reason for survivor not to bring at least a Brown Medkit / Toolbox every match.
Item/addon on survivor is unbalance due to the existence between 0 item team vs 4 Ranger/charge/syringe addon team.
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Killer players want to take away last and the only viable survivor item
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Can't afford to take one off.
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Did the ability of toolboxes to cut half the time off a generator disappear since I did the maths earlier this week?
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It's a fair point if people want to say that 32-48 charge medkits are a bit too much with speed add ons. But that conversation also has to include just how bad and inefficient base healing with a teammate is vs stacked gen slowdown.
Base healing via teammate is so bad. You lose your spacing. It takes 16 seconds and has the chance to be interrupted. You might as well forgo it entirely if Mangled is in play. The reason games stall out for survivors is often the lack of self-healing ~16 seconds. All your pressure is gone as a team when you're stuck in a cycle of saving and healing, rinse repeat. There's a reason everyone is taking medkits.
It's a problem when the loaded medkits are too strong but zero medkits are free wins.
Post edited by edgarpoop on4 -
Joke's on you, I only play Plague
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aren't you a salty surv main
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I see we're conveniently forgetting about Commodious Toolboxes with Wire Spool + Socket Swivels/BNP as well as Skeleton Keys with Blood Amber + Prayer Beads
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Blood amber keys? Toolboxes? Even maps are very solid items
Medkits allow teams to be heal at more than twice the efficiency for 3 heals each. That’s just ridiculous
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Again .... The killer has to waste a perk slot just to counter 4 survivor pocket perks. Same story with lightborn.
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Oh yeah, because toolboxes don't exist and can't reduce the time of a gen in more than 30s, flashlight's haven't been buffed just now, maps don't synergize with boons or counter hexes and keys don't allow for clutch escapes when you use them right. Not at all.
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Love how people bring up Otz for medkits for example but when Otz makes a vid about how much killer sided the game is everyone takes it as a personal attack and trashtalks Otz.
As a reminder: The game is not meant to be balanced and it will never be. Devs are inflating kill rates over 60%+ just "cause", SWF will violate an average killer, etc. It's meant to be a casual assymetrical game. For what the game is the devs have done surprisingly well and they listen too. They literally listened to killers unconsciously whining about their own skill issues and buffed them to raise kill rates to give them free 3-4k's.
Now we complainin' about a medkit that can only be used after a survivor is hit BUT does not go down, how unfortunate! I think it would be a good strat to like, catch them instead? Or just let them waste the charges while they are healing and not doing anything useful while you go after someone else?
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Do you even know what 60% kill rate means? Barely over 2 kills per match. Leaning more to 2 kills than 3 kills.
Not really hard, when survivors often suicide on their first hook.
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The only counter to the healing meta is tunneling. Just go for that injured survivor, it’s not worth trying to injure everyone when they can heal so fast.
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Also, the fact that killers can usually secure one kill even in defeat already puts the kill rates a bit up, 60% doesn't necessarily mean killer "wins" most matches.
Not to mention it's quite common for the killer to have a miserable match, survivors rush gens before he can do much... but then they mess up really badly right at the end and 2 or 3 people die. It was an awful match for the killer, but on the data will count as a draw or even a win, pushing kill rates up. Those things must be considered when balancing such a game.
Post edited by Malkhrim on6 -
Correct! Thats why i think the game should be balanced purely around actual hooks. Not kills, not hook states, just hooks.
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Not to mention that survivors just have 2 good items to start with: Healing and repair speed. Flashlights are mostly a meme and not that useful when you go by pure effectiveness. Keys and maps are useless and as such survivors are pushed towards medkids.
However...Botany was not nerfed, for me that was a buff...I am still milking that perk hard after the increase of healing speed on others to counter sloppy butcher and pick up people from the ground. The 50% increase is quit good.
The problem is that I as a Killer have little influence over the hooks once I put somebody on it. I can not unhook the survivor myself and if the other 3 put gens before friends or mess up I am stuck with a single hook even if I play fair.
Also if survivors all take the same character and skin I have much trouble to play fair. There is no way for me to tell who has been hooked twice and who has been hooked once.
And finally: If a single survivors hides all match and never takes my heat, I am stuck with hooking his three friends and then only score a single hook on them in the end.
Killers are quit limited in managing hooks...
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-munches on my big bucket of popcorn as this unfolds-
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Not a big fan of Otz, but it's true that hit & run is suffering very much from the fast heals. Playing Hag right now is, well, complicated.
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Yeah the hook counter doesn´t really make sense. Why do survivors, that will know how often they have been hooked, require an exact hook counter. While the killer has to take a wild guess? It doesn´t really prevent killers from tunneling, since a tunneling killer will simply ignore the counter.
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That's not tunnelling.
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You gonna share?
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I use healing perks combo to quick heal others, while have a Brown medkit to heal myself. (Empathy, Botany, Desperate measure, Bite bullet).
The buff to Botany is really weaker than you think, while 20% charge nerf on Medkit render Medkit useless to you:
- If I bring Medkit, and I cant use for myself, I have to give to teammate, then why should I use Botany in the beginning?
Someone argued with me that charge nerf is fair for healing buff. That the time I have to find a teammate + 16sec of them healing me, totally worth the time of 50% healing buff from Botany. So I leave them with this math.
Old Botany 33% let me heal a teammate in 12sec
New Botany 50% let me heal a teammate in 10.5sec
So with Botany buff, I save 1.5sec per healing. I asked them again how many healing does it take to equally save the time of "I have to find a teammate + 16sec of them healing me"
I will have to remind everyone that 17% buff on Botany worth 1.5sec per complete healing.
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They want like 80% kill rate for sure
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Don't forget flashlights got buffed
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You can hard counter the perk just by having a friend or teammate pickup the item and drop it immediate to disable Franklin's while your getting chased
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honestly it kinda is fun making survivors waste those purple medkits. I said what I said.
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Sounds like a lot of time wasted lol
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If you count 5 secs alot of wasted time then idk what to tell ya
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Without nurse as therapy I would probably not play killer in its current state
Heals should just have a cap at a certain % speed
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And if they are, and BVHR are going to keep medkits like this, they need to make green + addons much easier to get.
The bloodweb rework has made it actually take longer to get back to the high level ones.
Survivors will see medkits and toolboxes right away, from level 1.
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Or just place your item down when it turns out the killer got Franklin.
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Low tier killers still struggle against actual good survivors.
Killer is not easy just because of the changes in the 6.1.0 update. Tunneling and camping surely are a problem, but the buffs killers received haven't suddenly made killers easy mode. Not if you go against an actual decent survivor team.
Medkits are indeed a problem for the game's balance, because they just have too much impact on a match. Just like slowdown perks being stacked, and Eruption, are a problem as well. Or tunneling and camping. Or map design. The game still has multiple fundamental balance issues that all affect the game.
You can't actually be serious or?
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When they buff solo queue we can talk about medkits. I swear most of the time you can't rely on a solo squad to actually heal you. If you hate them that much, bring franklin's.
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