Remove Basic Attack Requirement for Jolt and Sloppy Butcher
I genuinely think that in times of Gen kick meta perks the variety of other/weaker slowdown perks you come across should be increased. I barely see killers run something other then deadlock, Call of Brine, Overcharge or Eruption. People complain about Eruption a lot, which is fair because it is basically impossible to avoid in soloq since you never know when somebody is going to get downed. On the other hand sloppy and Jolt are far less oppressive and Jolt can easily be dealt with by running into parts of the map where no survivor is working a gem or where Gens are already finished. It would be great if those perks worked on killer powers as well, generally speaking.
The only thing I'm not entirely sure is how the interaction would be if you are further away from the killer... Let's say Huntress downs you across the map, or Plague, Nemesis or Trickster from a somewhat shorter distance... So would it be calculated from where the killer is standing or where the survivor is downed. (Obviously it should not work on Nemesis Zombies or when you don't mend against Legion)
So what do you think of the idea in general and would you rather have it activate around the killer or the downed survivor? (Or maybe from a point exactly in between the two?)
I personally think both options would be fine and have their pros and cons, therefore I'm interested in your opinions.
Comments
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No.
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Why?
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Surge sure. Sloppy Butcher no. There are Add-ons to make your power inflict Hemorrhage and Mangled.
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On some, but not on all Killers, as far as I know, and they barely get used but if it is a perk someone might use sloppy over a stronger slowdown perk and if not the change does not matter anyway so why oppose it.
I know that huntress has one (it is purple), Wraith has a green one but he is already a basic killer so it does not matter much, and Bubba has a green one that only applies mangled, Trapper has two one for each effect, but is already a basic killer so it does not really matter, Legion has at least two but you should basically never heal against legion anyway, Deathslinger has a mangled one but is already a basic killer in the sense of using this perk anyway.
So as far as I know those are all, correct me if I'm wrong... Out of those Killers only Huntress and Bubba would need to go out of their way to apply sloppy butcher... And the other ones can already use it if they wanted to.
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And the Knight, not that firm with his addons so I forgot about him.
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No. Those perks are already pretty good as they are.
I would’ve been okay with Jolt working with special attacks when it had a cooldown, but not now.
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They are good perks for sure, but they don't really get used (that much) and I think they would be healther than for example eruption.
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I won't name the dev but the reason why Jolt does not work on special attacks is in fear of trapper with honing stone being too strong. that was the explanation from dev's. As for sloppy butcher, I think explanation was Legion being too oppressive with feral frenzy for the survivors so his feral frenzy had to be turned into special attack instead of basic attack.
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Agree with the Jolt one its strong as is and to implement that it would need to reinstate a cooldown which would essentially just be debuffing M1 killers.
In addition lets look at those killers with special attacks for sloppy
Hillbilly/Bubba/Oni - is a 1 shot down so if you want these status conditions run Gift of Pain and get them on hook + added bonus when they do get healed
Huntress - has begrimed head
Plague - Laughs in broken
Legion - has defaced smiley pin and joeys mixed tape - if anything just combine these add ons change it to purple and move BFFs to green or yellow and give him another add-on
Wesker - already requires healing and disinfecting, revealing your location to not suffer a fate way worse than sloppos
Artist - Thorny nest
Twins- has rusty needle - could add mangled
Pyramid head - has CC book which could get updated to include mangles since pheads add-ons are trash anyway
Death Slinger- has 2 add-ons that inflict mangled given that he will also inflict deep wound it really doesnt need the buff of survivors breaking free ALSO having hem
So the people this would benefit would be Trickster, Demo Nemi, Pig and Blight. Blight doesnt need his rushes to be buffed and both Trickster Demo and Nemi have add ons that noone uses or have multiple levels of the same effect that could be reworked to inflict this. And Pig does have add ons just that require the bear trap if concerned for her ambush they could just alter those.
All in all the reason why these perks are specific to basic, not special attacks are because special attacks are inherently stronger and have their own specialties to go with them. The killer that would be getting the buff from this change is basically just blight in addition to rendering many add on without real value.
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The weakest killer in the game being too strong? XD ok I guess ^^ But with Legion you are already playing wrong if you heal against him no matter if he has that or not and also he has addons that apply it s how can this be an argument at this point... I mean it used to be one I guess, but not anymore I think.
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I agree that it would render many addons useless, but let's be honest those addons are boring to begin with, they could have come up with something more interesting to add than give 10 killers the same addons that give a status effect to the survivor... And nobody runs those addons anyway as it is... So I don't know :/ I just think it would be nice for perk variety to not exclude those killers and let's be honest those perks are good/okay but they not eruption deadlock level of good... So every killer that would run those perks should be greeted with open arms as far as I'm concerned.
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The point is making those two perks usable on special attacks would probably not buff a single killer, because stronger perks exists, if you want to run the strongest possible build you will not run sloppy and jolt you will run corrupt, deadlock, eruption, call of brine/NOED or something like this... Why would you run sloppy or jolt? Because you like not having to kick gens and don't like perks that are too opressive maybe, so why not make it possible?
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Oh but you are wrong. You mostly don't heal against legion, but there sure are situations when it's required - and they are not even super rare.
1, thanatophobia - you always want to have 1 survivor healthy. Preferably the one with most hook states.
2, there's a gen in the open that needs to be done (e.g. to prevent 3gen). If you are healthy, legion will need to use his power giving you time to get to loopable area
3, someone is in a basement or on a hill. Sure enough, if you go there healthy, you will be injured quickly. But you will have enough time to unhook. If you go there injured, you will just be downed without helping anyone.
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Yeah sure there are points when you want to heal against legion but they are quite rare compared to other killers... When playing against a Wraith or Myers or Ghostface you want to be healed because they can sneak up on you, Legion cannot, so while you get value on basically every injure against those guys you will get value on legion not that often, especially against legion people spread out naturally to not give him multiple hits. Nobody runs thana these days... And even if you would only need to keep one person healthy, and sloppy only adds like 4 or 5 seconds to the heal, that's really not that much to take sloppy on legion, and like I said before Legion already has an addon the "defaced smiley pin" that will give you mangled which increases the heal time when you mend yourself, and you will mostly mend yourself... So even if it worked on legion you would not run it regardless since there are far better perks...
There are perks that are far more reasonable to run on legion, so once again how am I wrong there? Yes there are points where you may need to heal to guarantee a succesfull unhook, but the perk would not be good on him regardless, especially since there is an addon that has the same effect. If sloppy would work on his frenzy hits I still don't think it would provide enough value to be worth it.
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PTS is huge thing, because it shaves off at most 6 seconds on gen when 2 people are on it. Also it can add much much more then just 6s - if someone still self cares (but sure enough - that's issue of nerfed self care. On the other hand sloppy does basically nothing against green medkit with extra speed).
Thana is really bad on everyone but legion and plague. On these 2, the perk is actually good (especially on plague).
Another thing is, that legion can very quickly put you to deep wound (+ addon to make deep wounds longer). Now add into it extended heal time and some situations where you just need to heal and your version of sloppy would be quite strong.
But overall I have to admit. The perk would become good on legion. It however would NOT become oppresive. Eruption is oppresive on soloQ. Sloppy would NOT be oppresive and not come even close to this.
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I would not even call it good on those two, just because it is rather easy to not be injured on 4 people and the additional 14 % slowdown or what it is will just not be a thing that often, even against legion you could probably argue that taking the additional % slowdown would be a better call than to group up and heal, because it offers multiple hits to the Legion, but that depends on the situation I think.
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I disagree. You usually want one person healed anyway - to be able to go unhook from basement, work on gen in dead zone etc (I already wrote that above). Also thana slows down multiple things. E.g. sabotaging against thana is considerably harder, as you need to start sabotages sooner - so killer can see you sooner and change direction sooner which means he will probably make it to next hook. Another thing if you can keep multiple people injured, then thana + regression is actually better then double regression - these 2 things multiply each other and it's harder for survivor to rush that gen before killer can apply any regression.
I think you underestimate the perk on those 2 killers. The only thing is, that sure enough 6% regression is nothing and if you can't keep 4 injured, the perk is useless. But 20% is quite considerable slowdown and nothing to laugh at.
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This is more like it!
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I can understand it somewhat on Plague, since to cleanse they need to give you your power, but on Legion... If you get that many hits in a row people are already playing it wrong by not being spread wide enough... And otherwise it is not too hard delay it.
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