Powered hook states
I think with the game heading in a more "the survivors are a team" as opposed to individuals meta I do both like and dislike the idea of the shared hook states to combat tunneling. But my thought is instead having hooking "power the entity". Possibly even as an alternative mode to see which people actually like more, the individualist or the group survival. My thought is it working something like this:
The Entity needs to be fed pain and suffering to complete sacrifices. Hooks have a shared charge bar that starts at 0 in the match. The following actions increase a hooks charge bar.
- +10 points when a survivor is initial placed on a hook.
- +0.05 - 0.2 points per second that a survivor is on the hook based on the killers proximity to the hook with max points at 24m (make your choice range) OR in an active chase. Basically the entity gets distracted when the killer isn't trying to get it more food. This should prioritize killers to be less campy.
- x2-x5 multiplier for amount of points a survivor feeds to the entity based on the number of points given by a survivor. For every 5 points the survivor gives to the entity, barring the hook bonus, that survivor is marked with a multiplier increase of 1. Basically the longer the entity feeds on a single survivor the stronger their bond becomes and the easier it is for the entity to feed on them. So if a survivor has fed the entity 5 points they now give a x2 multiplier, 10 points x3 and so on. After the entity gains 30 points from a survivor the survivor is drained. The entity can no longer absorb energy from them but will still gain the +10 points from initially being hooked. If a survivor that is completely drained is on a hook all generator progress is slowed by 50% as long as the killer is not within 24 meters of that hook.
- Unhook attempts may only be performed when the hooks are at less than 50 points and the time multiplier is at 1x. 4% chance + luck. On a failed unhook attempt you automatically give the entity 2 points, this counts towards the time multiplier.
- Struggle phase occurs for all survivors at hooks powered to 50 points. Failed struggle skill checks grant 0.5 x your multiplier in points fed to the entity to a maximum of 5. Upon reaching the maximum 5 points fed to the entity via missed skill checks skill checks will no longer occur for your survivor.
- When the Hook charge bar is at 100 or more points all survivors on hooks are instantly sacrificed. In addition any survivor in the dying state when the charge bar is at 100 or more points is instantly sacrificed as if by end game collapse.
Deliverance, Slippery Meat, Reassurance and Kinship changes would be as such.
- Deliverance - as is except it is deactivated after use.
- Slippery meat - increase luck by 4% and failed self unhooks only grant the entity 1point.
- Reassurance- Places a 4 point pause on hooked survivor. Upon unhook the survivors pause is removed and multiplier increases by 1. Otherwise is the same
- Kinship - Places a 5 point pause on hooked survivor. Upon unhook the survivors pause is removed and multiplier increases by 1. Otherwise is the same.
These numbers will obviously need to be tweaked depending on how gameplay goes but I want your opinions. Again I think this might be best as an alternate game mode as it encourages both sides to play different than they do now but I think it prioritizes a lot of the complaints of both sides of the community. It promotes killers leaving the hook and survivors prioritizing "friends before gens" limiting aspects of gen rushing. In addition it discourages tunneling with a maximum number of points that a survivor can get from just hanging out while still giving the survivors incentive to unhook and the killer incentive to hook them.
Comments
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I don't understand the purpose of this or what it actually changes.
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Two major things that survivors complain about are tunneling and camping. One major thing that killers complain about is survivors gen rushing. By having the survivor have essentially a team health state this eliminates the main purpose of tunneling, getting a player out quickly. But at the same time survivors are needing to prioritize saving survivors or their health deminishes faster requiring a reprioritization for "friends before gens". The base goals are the same, Killer kill survivor repair however the strategy behind them have to be be adjusted.
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It will not stop tunneling. In fact it would be arguably even better tactics. In team with 3 strong survivors and 1 weaker, killer can tunnel him 6x so that he quickly drains everyone's hook states even if they are not able to catch anyone else. Tunneling needs to be nerfed in a way that it's actually not always 1st choice to do no matter what if you want to win.
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You do not get it. you get 3 guaranteed old uncounterable decisive strikes in addition to current hook-states for needing to hook 6 times to kill one survivor. there is no advantage to tunneling in global hook systems like these because every hook is the same value on every survivor. You can still technically chase the same survivor 6 times but there is no advantage in doing so compare just hooking anyone. I do not recommend snowbally hook regression or point systems because they just make the game super hard to read. Hook timers and regression timer are simple and easy to understand mechanics. Entity points are complicated and anti-new comer friendly.
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I agree it would be better then current state balance wise. On the other hand it would be much worse from personal's POW. Like you see 3 people that all can greed pallet, spin you, window tech you etc. And then there's that one person that does not even look behind himself AND have taken no mither. How quickly can you drain hooks if you target everyone equally? And how quickly if you target that inexperienced person with wrong build? And those other 3 people that know how to loop will now suffer even more for that 1 incompetent teammate (basically requiring you to play in SWF if you want to have chance)
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how is that any worse then what it is now? Tunneling no mither is easier in the current system because its 3 hook=death. No mither in your example is talking about weak links. The killer tunnels the weak links.
There is expression for this. A chain is only as strong as its weak links. Break weak links, break the chain. with shared hook-states. your unable to break weak links. You can only break the whole chain. In the shared hook-states, it takes a lot more hooks to eliminate the no mither survivor. In any case, No mither is badly designed perk that need rework, so there is no point in talking about it. it has heavy drawback because it erases slugging but its advantage never comes into play because nobody slug no mither. it is nothing more then detriment perk often used for trolling purposes in normal dbd gameplay loop.
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As matchmaking will give you 5h player into lobby with 5K hours for everyone else, survivors are sometimes better of playing 3v1 then playing 4v1 with your shared pool. But sure - this is a bit extreme.
The second point I made is that it's quite not entertaining when all you can do is wait and see your hooks drain and sit on gen hoping to do as much as possible. Or try to help that poor soul which does nothing if that person can't play.
Also. read my first 2 sentences. It might help to make tunneling somewhat weaker winning tactics. But it still does nothing to address decision making behind tunneling. It would be still the same. Identify weakest link and tunnel until that person is dead (now you have more opportunities to find weak link).
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So part of the reducing tunneling is making it less effective on the killers side by making all survivors essentially equal. But the other part is putting more urgency on the survivors to place "friends before gens" both in having them sit on the hook for shorter periods of time and actually protecting the other survivors. Survivors will bring killers to the hook to farm other survivors so their chase resets and wonder why they get tunneled. With something like this system. The killer needs to leave the hooked area and find a second survivor, otherwise the hook doesn't get charged as quick. If the first survivor is unhooked during this time, the killer is across the map chasing someone else. So they can drop chase trek back to the hook and go for the original survivor but its gonna be much more effort than if they were in the area anyway how they can be with current camping and tunneling.
The survivors should be baiting chases to protect in dangerous situations such as unhooks. Unhooking should be a risk that the survivors have to work around. If the killer cannot find a survivor to chase when a unhook comes in of course they are going to come back to the hook. They know 2+ survivors are there and one is currently still injured. This is why perks like BBQ and Chili are actually healthy for the game. They encourage killers to leave the area since they know where other survivors are. Stealth survivor tactics are fine but you need to recognize that those tactics only protect an individual survivor. This game is moving towards a team game. In prior situations its been considered a set for 4 1v1s for the killer and a 1v1 for each of the survivors winning being escaping or killing. Over time its been more and more adjusted to being completely team where the killer wins killing 3+ and survivors win by having 3+ escape even if their survivor doesn't.
One thing I think a lot of people don't recognize is that with the way the game is currently designed both sides are both responsible and benefit from a survivor being tunneled. Tactically finishing a gen so it doesnt regress, hiding from the killer, not taking a chase all benefit in the individuals survival but hurt the chances of a safe unhook. And with killer getting someone out as quickly as possible protects your overall gens the most. Leaving an area where there is a survivor 1/3 dead who will be vulnerable once they are unhooked doesn't make sense. This is one of the reasons I think this might want to be an alternate mode. The goal is 100% the same but the best way to play it is different and more attuned to what I think a lot of both survivors and killers want.
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A person being on hook is inherently slowing gens down as the maximum number of potential repair is between three people, only two if someone is going for the unhook.
I don’t think that there needs to be gen slowdown for reaching a threshold on a single survivor.
I also don’t think that there needs to be a range for the passive hook feed for the effectiveness of a Hooked survivor, so long as the on-hook bonus is much higher than the passive drain.
I would add a bonus for hooking a fresh survivor (One that hasn’t been hooked yet), inherently increasing the value of the Unhooker or other non-hooked survivors to incentivize going for others, and also to act as a tool if you’re just getting stomped compared to the other survivors by being the designated Unhooker if the Killer is intent on camping, as you’ll be creating a Hooked/Unhook loop between two Survivors that’s less lucrative as both have already been Hooked before.
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I do think there needs to be something that encourages the survivors after the threshold is met, otherwise unhooking them could be considered a liability. The one thing I really would want to avoid is leaving someone on hook.
The reason for the range effectiveness is two fold. First is camp reduction as the passive increases more the further away but second is survivor urgency when the hook isn't being camped. Gens before friends cause a lot of survivors deaths even when no camping is occurring. Both survivors and killers are responsible many of the times a person gets out early
I do like the idea of the of a higher incentive for first hook such as 15 points for first hook and 8 points for subsequent.
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I don't think the thing that encourages survivors to go get the Hooked survivor should be something passive that the Killer benefits from without any subsequent interaction on their part.
Range effectiveness would have issues with mutli-floor maps. And isn't the thing that should be encouraging Survivors to unhook already above?
Maybe give the Killer some kind of information advantage when they leave the Hook that grows in power the longer a Survivor is Hooked?
Something like: The longer a Survivor remains on Hook, Killer Instinct is applied to Survivors outside of x meters away after an amount of points are consumed by the Survivor staying on Hook. The longer the Survivor is on the Hook, the shorter minimum range for Killer Instinct becomes.
This would be information that the Killer needs to act upon to gain a benefit from, moving away from Hook increases the value of the information if it does proc (and the initial large range means that the information is at its best when you're far away from Hook), and the longer a Survivor is left on Hook the more likely a Survivor will be caught out or proxied with closer Killer Instinct procs.
Or maybe have the Auras of Generators show their progress after you Hook a Survivor, so you can see what Gen has the most progress and should be the target gen to move towards. Or just highlight the Gen with the most progress to avoid information overload/stress.
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