BHVR's backtracking ability is astounding
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684932#Comment_2684932
This discussion was about last year's event cosmetics.
Last year it was clearly stated multiple times that those outfit were obtainable only during the Witching Hour Event, but apparently BHVR changed their mind on the topic, and simply put for a sale those skins one year later, without ever feeling the need to address the fact that theoretically they were supposed to be exclusives.
Now, I know that exclusives are bad and yadayada, but I'm curious to see what the community thinks of this behaviour in general.
In my opinion at least, stating that one thing is an exclusive, and then backtracking one year later without ever aknowledging the fact that they backtracked is a despicable behaviour, and it opens up certain miscommunication issues that could arise and cause some people to get (rightfully so) angry.
What do you guys think? Is it fine for BHVR to change the rules of the game basically without telling us? Or would like them to at least own up to their decisions and admit that they had a change of heart somewhere along the way?
(thanks to @Mooks to bringing up this past discussion)
Clarification: the "Witching Hour" outfits they are talking about in the post are the Mikaela and Doctor Halloween skins that were unlockable for free during last year event, and sold for a limited time this year again.
There's the whole "What's exclusive and what's not?" discussion that needs a dedicated thread, so I'll probably create one to discuss what we know and what we don't know for sure, but it's going to take a little bit of time to put together all the info, because BHVR is not making this task easy at all.
Comments
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I mean Mandy isnt lying, its unlockable during the event. I dont see any problem with this.
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(thanks to @Mooks to bringing up this past discussion)
how dare you dragging me into this?
lol no seriously though, I do appreciate it more if there is no exclusive stuff so the less the better. But I do agree backtracking like this especially in such a short period of time and then not acknowledging it is kinda bad. Shouldn’t have stated it as such an ultimate last year but rather state something like ‚for now it’s not planned to make them available in another way‘
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But she is stating this in a direct response to the question if they will be available later in the store.. it may not be a lie but the answer was implying something different than what was very likely already planned
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The key words I see are "earned" or "unlocked". When they appear in the store, they are neither of these as they are bought. So there's no backtracking that I can see within those messages.
However, Mandy did word her final point unclearly which may have caused a bit of confusion, but up to that point it was clear her focus was that the event would be the only time they would be unlockable.
"Despicable" is hardly the correct adjective for this which, at the very most, was a fair answer with a tired ending.
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I am unsure if they themselves were even fully aware of the marketing teams direction at the time (if they were gauging player reactions).
If they were, then they were trying to play both sides with ambiguous phrasing.
If they weren't, well, they probably could have had the same effect by saying they're uncertain if they will be FOMO based or not, dependent on players reactions. (as this itself would still instill FOMO).
All in all, just not clear on the subject.
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Well, definitely not FOMO in this case, as at the time of the discussion in the screenshots, the Halloween rift was already long closed.
also if unsure, then why state it in such a way? There is better phrasing that could have been used here.
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You mean a year ago? unless you dont know policy's change idk what to tell you.
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Yeah of course it may change. That’s why the response shouldn’t have been phrased like that.
but a year isn’t that long in terms of planned content in this game.
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I fail to see the point here? if policy is allowed to change then why are you guys complaining?
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Ah, clever business talk.
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I haven’t seen anyone complain here? Just giving feedback on how some info/responses are given…
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Yeah, you are about how an answer given a year ago does not match how policy changed this year and I asked why that is a problem given that bHVR's policy is allowed to change..
You seem to agree with this sentiment here. Unless you point is you don't like the change? How can It be bad, if they are allowed to do it?
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Would be if bHVR's policies were not allowed to change.
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They've always said that RIft cosmetics would come to the store in the future for purchase. This is way it's always been, the wording of such has not changed.
There is no backtracking here at all, just people not paying attention to how things have always been.
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Those were specifically not right cosmetics though. And if that was the case, then Mandy could have answered just that to the question if the cosmetics will be added to the store.
And what exactly is your point? Giving feedback isn’t complaining. I even said I liked the fact they decided to not keep those cosmetics exclusive. I don’t have a problem with this at all. And it’s not even a big deal for me as I got the cosmetics anyway and I don’t even use these cosmetics.
but if policies changed, then why not acknowledge it, give a statement why they decided it now and what changed in this year? If they state one thing and suddenly do the opposite -even if the opposite is better- I would like some comment on it. Otherwise, why even talk to the community in the first place if anything they say isn’t worth anything anymore after just a year?
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They were talking about the "Witching Hour" event.
Let's not defend doublespeak, please. It's like shooting ourselves (the community) in a foot and then giving BHVR the gun saying "Do it again, I liked it".
Nope, when an outfit is bought from the Store, it's unlocked, even the in-game store agrees
Saying A, then doing B without ever aknowledging the fact that you said you'd do A in the first place (they did it multiple times as well) is not really admirable, especially if you do that to paying customers.
I am unsure if they themselves were even fully aware of the marketing teams direction at the time (if they were gauging player reactions).
EXACTLY. And they did the same exact thing when time-limited skins were announced. Radio silence for the first what, 3 weeks? Then after the partial outcry of the community they announced (not in a clear way) that they'll be back next year.
Still, a MUCH better answer to the question "Will they not be appearing in the store later?" would have been "I can't disclose that yet" if you're not sure, because as @Mooks said, the event was already over at that point and there would have been no FOMO involved.
Noone says policy are not allowed to change. But if you change something that was already communicated to the public, the right thing to do is aknowledge the fact that you changed something and take responsibility for the change. Doing it like this seems like a cheap way of trying to sweep everything under the rug. They did it multiple times already, everytime doing nothing to address the thing.
They did it for the P3 rewards (bragging rights anyone?)
They did it for the catch up mechanic (second phase of the catch up mechanic? When was that mentioned?)
They did it for exclusives (Deep Rift items that are never coming back in the store)
It's becoming an habit of them, and it's not rubbing me the right way.
Not Rift cosmetics. Those were Event cosmetics.
The Rift cosmetics they released are Mime Feng and Pumpkin Eater for Clown, but noone said anything about those (we don't know yet if those 2 particular outfits will be available next Halloween or not, BTW)
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Im sure you would like comments on everything, but since we already know the current policy and we both know policy may change. Do you really need them, to tell you a message from a year ago could be phrased better? I would not need that, just saying.
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I would have liked them to acknowledge the change and to not repeat this kind of ‚miscommunication‘ again. I am not holding a grudge against them or Mandy, but I am allowed to give my feedback in a constructive way especially if it’s something that can repeat itself in the future.
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Touché, good response! Although I've never heard anyone say they unlock outfits in store (I've heard people say "purchase" when talking about the store mostly), it does clearly say "unlocked".
Judging by bad wording, it's now more likely people could be misled. I'd still say it's not despicable, and much more down due to terrible wording and perhaps trying to be more clever than they actually were, but it's not great advertising neither.
I guess for me I made an assumption that it makes no financial sense to create an outfit to be sold for only 2 weeks before being discarded forever, so logically it just seems better to allow that cosmetic to return, but yeah .. I accept defeat on this one.
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You guys are acting like Mandy knew all along the items would come back and was just trying to trick you... You all really should know by now that BHVR doesn't finalize their plans a year in advance.
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Same as Mooks here.
It doesn't look good when this kind of misscommunication incidents happen. It's not hard to find a "malicious" intent behind behaviours like these, even if it most likely wasn't the case.
Like, take for example the very similar thing that happened that @Simfeliz pointed out:
Who's to say they weren't "testing the waters" by not saying wether the outfits would come back or not? My opinion is that they hadn't decided yet on what to do, and they were waiting to see our reaction before taking a decision on wether they were going to screw us over or not.
Luckily we complained enough to make them cave in and announce the outfits would come back.
This kind of "incidents" are dangerous because if we allow BHVR to take advantage of those, rest assured they will do so in the future, and most likely to our detriment.
I guess for me I made an assumption that it makes no financial sense to create an outfit to be sold for only 2 weeks before being discarded forever, so logically it just seems better to allow that cosmetic to return
But it's (somehow) accepted as the norm in some cases, and not specifying if something is going to come back or not leads very rapidly to FOMO
(BTW the discussion in question was from last year, not regarding time-limited cosmetics, I'll get to that discussion later 😉)
That's more than abundantly clear, don't worry. I'm ready to bet they hadn't finalized the P3 reward when they announced it in the first place.
What was missing here was an aknowledgment of the fact that they changed their plan after they communicated a different one. That or it was a case of bad community management, because if you don't know something, you can say "I'm not aware of any decision taken in that regards" or something more generic instead of saying something that's simply not true.
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Well I'm glad they did. Only started playing in august and wanted that michaela outfit the second I saw it lol.
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Wow BHVR is an unprofessional mess of a company that only puts out mainly sub-par and straight up awful games complete with baffling decisions and contradictions? Shock!
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Yall will literally be up in arms about anything when it comes to this game.
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Well it's probably good if we start bugging them about it every time they do it instead of simply rolling out eyes in silence
And you're allowing BHVR to tell you whatever they want and doing whatever they want without taking any responsibility for it, what's worse in the long run?
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Yeah, so, I get a vibe from BHVR that reminds me a a few places I've worked -- and, in some of those places, I kept getting told, "This is definitely the decision for sure and you can tell the customers" only to have it walked back a few weeks or months later, which made me look like I didn't know what was going on. I have empathy for the community managers, here.
Ultimately, I'm fine with having the cosmetics in the store, but I agree that it makes things seem chaotic when we keep getting told different messages about what's going to happen.
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Ehy oh look who's here again!
Not BHVR backtracking on the "Non licensed cosmetics that are in the store for more than 4 weeks will be available with shards"
Eeeeh, company policy change and that's fine right? Even if it's only what, a few months ago?
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Not trying to defend the devil but they said it would release skins with aurics cell in batchs so right now the skin of Meg would be the only one shard priced in january becuz the others characters still not released.
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What do you mean?
The new time-limited collection will be in the stores for more than 4 weeks, but it will not be available to buy with shards, when they said the exact opposite a couple of months ago
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