I feel like BBQ and Chili should be added to Killer base kit.
Idk if this is the right place for suggestions but hear me out, if survivors are getting some perks added to their base kit, especially if the anti slug patch goes live, I feel like it would benefit both sides if BBQ and Chili was added to killer base kit.
-killers would feel more awarded with getting hooks cause after every hook you would see auras of survivors outside a specific meter.
-it would help new players/killer understand the game better so they can get an idea where survivors usually are.
-its not a guarantee obviously, but I think in a way it would help tunneling/camping. I feel like a lot of killers especially newer killers that think camping is the best option because they would rather wait for the survivors to come to them versus trying to waste time to find another survivor so they stay in places like near the hook where they know where survivors are going to be. But if they get a hook and can see auras of the next survivors they can have a general idea of where to go for their next target which would motivate them more to leave hook or to not tunnel.
I don't know that's just my thoughts, I play both sides so I know how annoying camping and tunneling can be but I also know how annoying it can be to go against really good survivors who know how to hide and juke and survivors get base kit perks and killers don't. So this is just an idea if the devs start adding in more base kit perks and want something for killer that's useful but not super OP.
Thanks for reading! Lemme know your thoughts! :)
Comments
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I've actually mentioned this before. BBQ and Chili is SUCH a nice perk, even without the bloodpoint bonus. It's just so useful, and it promotes good gameplay as the killer is incentived to leave hook.
(Unless, of course, they see the last survivors completing the last gen and decide it's better to camp this one out)
I absolutely wouldn't mind killers getting some sort of BBQ as base kit, and maybe buffing actual BBQ to a longer duration to see if survivors are reacting to you hooking the survivor.
If some sort of kindred makes it base kit, I hope killers will get some sort of BBQ. =)
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No?
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Nah. The perk could probably be buffed in some way, but not made basekit.
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Out of curiosity, Why not?
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Nea?
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Why not?
By how many perks and buffs added to the game now, BBQ is very weak compared to those, especially with survivors having boon perks now. And gens being able to be done pretty fast because some of the new perks that has come out in the last year. I feel BBQ would be a nice boost killers need to save some precious time on looking for survivors and to feel more satisfied and rewarded with hooks.
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While it's easy to mistake not a killer.
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Because it's completely unnecessary, just move between the gens to locate survivors, as well as areas of effort. Use the hook to locate them as well, if unhook occurs you know at least two survivors are there. Like old dead hard if you crutch on bbq you will naturally be worse at the core mechanics.
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Because I think it's too useful to be basekit. Maybe a weaker version, like every time you hook a survivor for the first time you get the other auras beyond 40m for 4 seconds. Then change the perk's effect a little.
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"I feel BBQ would be a nice boost killers need to save some precious time on looking for survivors and to feel more satisfied and rewarded with hooks."
And I don't really killers need to be more rewarded for hooking. It's their objective, they get closer to winning, create pressure and get BP + any hook effects from perks. It's rewarded enough.
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Because by adding BBQ as base kit you not only buff the weaker Killers who aren't going to utilize it that well but Killers like Blight, Nurse, and any other Killer who has good map mobility and make them have an extra unnecessary 5th perk slot.
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LOL NO killers are very strong right now and just got another incredibly strong info perk...
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Its kind of funny to see the disagreement. As the usage of BBQ dropped without the BP bonus, people have complained more than ever about camping and tunnelling.
Now I'm not saying this would 100% fix it but If it were to become basekit i bet you would start seeing a drop as killers would actually have somewhere to go after hooking someone.
It wouldnt even have to be the actual aura read you could do it as a scream bubble like spies from the shadows, it could just show the exact position of survivors more than 32m away when you hook, with no indication of what they are doing or where they are going.
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yes this! exactly! thats what i'm trying to say haha
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Survivors keep getting perks as base kit and I highly doubt the Burrowed Time is gonna be the last perk that becomes basekit. If the devs are starting to add more base kits perks I think its only fair Killers gets some too or at least one. I think the weaker killers need the buff and for strong killers, yes its a bit of a buff but its just information its not like its gonna make that much of a different, if anything it may make it easier for survivors to go for saves if the stronger killers are not hanging around hook area.
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Because it would make killers like nurse and blight even more oppresive. Those added seconds of aura reading for a good nurse are a serious buff to an already strong killer.
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Yes its the killers objective to hook, but as more and more perks and combinations comes out, and if survivors get more base kit perks, time becomes more and more precious for killers, especially with so many gen perks/tool boxes that can boost gen speed. Yes killers can use slow down perks, but slow down perks can only go so far and not everyone wants to go for slow down play style. BBQ as a base kit would not be that strong it would only help killers save more time from looking for the next target versus going to a gen/area they MIGHT be at or waiting around hook area waiting for someone to save. A lot of killers run BBQ now anyways and the game isnt that much different just like how majority of survivors ran BT before it became base kit. But now just like survivors killers will get a "5th perk slot"
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you cant balance a game based off "good/experienced" players, majority of players are casual players who play for fun. And if someone is already really good at the game, BBQ basekit wouldn't change the game that much because they would already have the knowledge of where to look for survivors anyways. Just like how adding basekit Burrowed Time didn't really affect good survivors, because good/stronger survivors knew tactics to out play tunneling (sometimes, not all the time of course). It only allowed the stronger/good survivors to take advantage of it and gain a "5th perk slot." However, the basekit BT really helped the casual/new players and it became worth it. And thats how I see BBQ being as basekit too.
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Spending that extra time looking for survivors between gens can make a difference on how many gens get done in that time versus killers knowing a general area where a survivor is guaranteed to be at.
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"If you use anything, you will get worse at the game by relying on it."
I mean, it's an alright argument to have, but couldnt it be said about anything? You use second chance perks... perish, you rely on those perks. You use slowdown... perish, you rely on those perks. Etc, Etc. I think there is a certain extent where "it will become a crutch" is not a valid argument anymore; especially when Game Sense will always be superior to Aura Reading.
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First of all, although you must not balance a game around the top 5% players, you cant also choose to ignore the effect that a certain perk made basekit would have on the strongest killers. Perks like Awakened Awareness have been nerfed purely because of nurse.
The same would go to your buff. Even in basekit BBQ would not mean a lot to a trapper or a ghostface, it is a serious buff for killers like blight and nurse that can snowball the entire team very quickly.
And the issue of Borrowed time being basekit. It was never meant to be a "buff" for survivors. It was meant to fix a flaw in game design that was a survivor being downed the second he was unhooked. This situation should have never been in the game to begin with, as the hooked survivor had 0 chance to escape and this would force every team to waste a perk slot to play normally.
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That's a joke, right?
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Wouldnt the solution just be reducing the effectiveness of high tier killers?
I think we've reached the point in DBD's lifespan where everyone can agree it is stupid that the strongest killers in the game reduce the effectiveness of all other killers.
Game design should always promote a healthy and fun experience for everyone. A lot of things clearly need to be addressed since they have been neglected for several years.
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theres like 30 killers in the game and every survivor just goes "but nurse" any time a killer buff or change is made or suggested.
i see nurse like once in 50 plus games and its literally been like 100 games since ive seen a blight.
I think people use nurse and blight as an excuse to fight against killer changes they dont like.
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Yes, it should. But as long as the strongest killers remain the way they are, they cant apply general killer buffs without making them broken as f.
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Whether you face them or not does not change the fact that nurse and blight are two of the strongest killers. And general buffs like this would make them even stronger than the rest of the killer roster.
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This is a good argument, I feel like the benefits would outweigh the drawback of this argument. But this might be something I would need to see more of and would like it to be tested.
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Basekit borrowed time is a direct result of the increase in camping which was a direct result of the drop in usage of BBQ because it was never a very strong perk by itself.
I will just quote rather than retype my post but take a look at my suggestion in the final paragraph, I think that would prevent it from being overpowered on the stronger killers.
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a killer with a 5% pick rate and mostly relegated to high mmr where most people arent are. while sure there is something to talk about there, i dont think its valid to argue against something that MIGHT impact 5% of your games, when the 5% should just be addressed accordingly as the community has whined about for years.
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A scream bubble would still be enough for a killer like blight, that could get there in seconds. Or a double recharge nurse.
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It wouldn't be the worst idea in the world. BBQ as base would be nice just as a sense of direction thing and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to go against since Distortion is already a very popular perk and closets exist. The worst that could happening from it is that MAYBE Iron Maiden gets an uptick in usuage.
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First of all, "High MMR" is a joke. If you had played enough dbd you should know that matchmaking can match 100h players with 7000h with no problem. I can be in a 10 losing streak and still be matched against 5000h nurses that should be in "high mmr".
Said that, nurses and blights still make 10-11% of the entire killer playerbase, so a buff that would make them even more powerful shouldnt be ignored.
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Would that be better or worse than the current proxy camp meta?
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Camping and tunneling will never decrease as long as it is not punished, no matter how many buffs killer could receive.
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Other than BT being partially base kit Survivors haven't received a single perk base kit other than unbreakable which hasn't even been added to the game yet and was specifically designed so as to not make slugging 10x more powerful with the game end feature they put in. Putting in base kit perks for Killers is a terrible idea to buff them because unlike Survivors Killers vary in strength so when you make something like BBQ base kit someone like Trickster is still going to suck but Killers like Blight, Wraith, Nurse, and any other Killer with map mobility will shoot up in strength. The correct course of action is for BHVR to visit those weaker killers and buff them from there.
And information for that matter is easily the most powerful thing in the game. There's a reason why Nowhere to Hide, Lethal Pursuer, Floods of rage, and any other information perk are considered powerful and that's because they give you the exact coordinates to a survivor's position which is insanely powerful. Lethal Pursuer completely eliminates the early game phase where the Killer only has a slight idea of where the Survivors are, Floods of rage can be used to gain map-wide intelligence on where everyone is and can show the Killer where he should be (i.e. survivor unhooks survivor and now the Killer sees someone working on a gen he recently passed by, or sees someone stealing, etc.) And on that last point, most good Killers don't really camp anyways because more often than not its a waste of time, so they don't really need that extra incentive to go away anyways.
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I'd rather a kind of reverse BBQ be baseline. Show the aura of survivors who are too close to the hook. Then maybe NPC survivoids will finally stop crouching nearby doing nothing, maybe they can do a gen instead.
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See this is poor reasoning IMO, i can agree it will never be eliminated, but you really think there would be 0 decrease if killers had a little more info after a hook.
I mean the chain of causation is pretty clear
Killers got buffed, and BBQ got nerfed
BBQ usage dropped, camping increased to the point that they had to basekit borrowed time, which essentially punishes camping, as your suggestion is, and how much effect did that have on camping, I would say pretty minimal based on forum complaints.
BBQ on its own as it is now is a pretty weak perk only actually worth giving up a perk slot on a handful of killers.
Alot of killer players who arent super skilled dont feel they can afford to run info perks because they arent as impactful as slowdown, chase or anti healing perks.
The core issue is, why leave the area of the hook when you know someone has to come there, and you dont know where anyone else is? Lets say this accounts for 25% of camping (not counting endgame), and lets be honest against a decent nurse or Blight your probably losing lets say 80% of your games regardless, although according to the forums its more like 98% especially with strong addons.
So if you look at the equation as a whole eliminating 25% of the camping in the game completely (again not counting endgame), vs giving a small boost to the 20% of nurse/blight games you were gonna have a real shot in, is a pretty fair trade.
Not to mention the assumed boost in kill rate that you are suggesting may actually lead to nerfs for those killers because we know kill rates are the most relevant statistic used in terms of balancing.
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But your reasoning lies in a sort of agreement from killers not to camp or tunnel by giving them incentives, and that is something i cant agree to happen.
A basekit BBQ does not solve the core issue that camping and tunneling should not be the most effective way to win, and precisely because these two are the most effective way to win, no buff is going to change their usage.
Why would you not camp if you have an early down? Why would you not tunnel the first survivor you see?
You have very little consecuences for comitting fully to them and BBQ will not make any difference if there is no rule to strictly punish them.
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Best idea I can think of.
Hook a survivor will show the least hooked survivors' aura, if 2-3 survivors have the same hook count, randomly showing 1 of them.
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Your missing the point there is no agreement and thise things aren't against the rules.
As to the why's you ask, there are essentially 3 types of campers.
1. People who camp to be douches, can't do anything about these.
2. People who camp because its the most effective thing to do, these ones are 50/50.
3. People who camp because they dont have a better option, these ones would be the most changed by having more info.
Type number 1, they will camp no matter what they dont care about winning all they care about is the kill, you wont change them so lets just ignore them.
Lets look at type 2, this player is all about the win, the meta they will do what is most effective at all times. With a basekit BBQ they would use that info strategically and depending what they see, they may see strategic value in not camping and having a place to apply guaranteed pressure, especially if they think they can secure a chase and possibly a down/hook somewhere else before the unhook can happen.
Now for type 3, these players get that hook and they proxy camp the area, not to be a douche, not because its effective, but because while they dont where anyone is, they know someone is going to come to that hook, these players would often much rather be chasing someone but not knowing where to go they lie in wait for prey to come to them.
These players dont care about whats effective they just don't wanna waste their time going halfway across the map looking for people, finding nothing and then going back to the hook after the unhook happens. These players with the knowledge of where someone is, will gladly go find and chase that person, and with that they arent camping and tunnelling.
You will never get rid of camping and tunneling completely, you can make all the rules and punishments you want but at the end of the day human beings are flawed. The state of California averages almost 3000 car thefts every day, just as one example of how effective punishment can be, or if you prefer just take a look at how effective the dc penalty is at preventing dc's.
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it not MIGHT. It WILL. Every aura reading perk will is super strong on high mobility killer LIKE nurse (but not limited to).
Killers got brutal strength, STBFL, thanatophobia. Survivors got what? BT? Killers are actually the once getting more basekit perks
That only means you are low MMR. When I play survivor, I see them every like 7th game. They are very common. Less then it used to be (thanks to wesker - who is another killer that highly benefits from basekit bbq), but still often.
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people from group 2, may well camp more if they a, don't see anyone (meaning they know everyone is close instead of on a gen) b, see that they will not make it to that gen because multiple survivors are already on it and it's far c, see nobody is working on gens. It's hard to tell if BBQ basekit will make them camp less or more. I would guess it will overall be a bit less, but I am far from sure of it.
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Of the three type of campers you describe you have:
Type 1 will continue to camp and tunnel.
Type 2 will mostly be unaffected by BBQ and still use tunnel/camp as it still is the most effective way to win. Do you know what killers are most likely to use that info strategically and get value of no camping? Nurses, blights, spirits. The strongest killers currently in dbd that really dont need more buffs to their kit.
And for type 3, you could have more killers inclined to go for chases, but the problem is that it still relies on the killer to actually abandon camping on its own decision.
I dont want to sound like that guy that tells others how to play, but killers dont really need to be constantly pinpointed the survivors' location to try to chase them. They already are shown the locations of gens, so unless the survs are doing some sneaky gimmick plays you are most likely to find them near gens.
So you have a buff that does not affect 1 type, will mostly not affect another type, will buff the killers that least need it and the only types that it affects it still relies on them.
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based off the latest pick rates, both of them together would be 7% at most and matchmaking does still work, it may not be perfect but its still not just throw everyone together regardless of playtime. Hours also dont mean skill.
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ok, so if i am in the average mmr which i most definitely am, then you are complainign about something that occurs in high mmr, which is not where the majority of players are and not what the game is balanced around. Nurse wasnt invented when the devs expected people to play a party game competitively.
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If mid/average MMR was target for buff/nerfs, survivors would require major helping hand at this moment. SoloQ is super hard on every MMR level and SWF in mid MMR can't communicate effectively (A: "where are you?", B: "Next to a rock") - by this alone it should be clear survivors will be underperforming. And then there's also this other thing - a lot of perks that do almost nothing in high MMR are oppressive here (like overcharge with difficult to hit skillcheck).
But it's true, that in this MMR range nurse even with startstruck and range addons is not a game breaking problem. Auras like basekit BBQ would not be a problem. Still - game balance IS a problem.
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kill rates are around where behavior wants them, and in fact are aiming to get the kill rate a bit higher and thus survivor escape rate down a bit.
So i dont think i agree about needing a helping hand tho yea an argument could be made about soloq
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Where did they mentioned that? Last time I heared they targeted kill rate to 60% which is a few months back
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distortion would become meta...
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When they published their stats it was at around 60% and they said it is now where they wanted it to be if I remember correctly.
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