I feel like BBQ and Chili should be added to Killer base kit.

Nah. The perk could probably be buffed in some way, but not made basekit.

Nea?

While it's easy to mistake not a killer.

Because I think it's too useful to be basekit. Maybe a weaker version, like every time you hook a survivor for the first time you get the other auras beyond 40m for 4 seconds. Then change the perk's effect a little.

Its kind of funny to see the disagreement. As the usage of BBQ dropped without the BP bonus, people have complained more than ever about camping and tunnelling.

Now I'm not saying this would 100% fix it but If it were to become basekit i bet you would start seeing a drop as killers would actually have somewhere to go after hooking someone.

It wouldnt even have to be the actual aura read you could do it as a scream bubble like spies from the shadows, it could just show the exact position of survivors more than 32m away when you hook, with no indication of what they are doing or where they are going.

First of all, although you must not balance a game around the top 5% players, you cant also choose to ignore the effect that a certain perk made basekit would have on the strongest killers. Perks like Awakened Awareness have been nerfed purely because of nurse.

The same would go to your buff. Even in basekit BBQ would not mean a lot to a trapper or a ghostface, it is a serious buff for killers like blight and nurse that can snowball the entire team very quickly.

And the issue of Borrowed time being basekit. It was never meant to be a "buff" for survivors. It was meant to fix a flaw in game design that was a survivor being downed the second he was unhooked. This situation should have never been in the game to begin with, as the hooked survivor had 0 chance to escape and this would force every team to waste a perk slot to play normally.

Wouldnt the solution just be reducing the effectiveness of high tier killers?

I think we've reached the point in DBD's lifespan where everyone can agree it is stupid that the strongest killers in the game reduce the effectiveness of all other killers.

Game design should always promote a healthy and fun experience for everyone. A lot of things clearly need to be addressed since they have been neglected for several years.

Yes, it should. But as long as the strongest killers remain the way they are, they cant apply general killer buffs without making them broken as f.

a killer with a 5% pick rate and mostly relegated to high mmr where most people arent are. while sure there is something to talk about there, i dont think its valid to argue against something that MIGHT impact 5% of your games, when the 5% should just be addressed accordingly as the community has whined about for years.

It wouldn't be the worst idea in the world. BBQ as base would be nice just as a sense of direction thing and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to go against since Distortion is already a very popular perk and closets exist. The worst that could happening from it is that MAYBE Iron Maiden gets an uptick in usuage.

Would that be better or worse than the current proxy camp meta?

Other than BT being partially base kit Survivors haven't received a single perk base kit other than unbreakable which hasn't even been added to the game yet and was specifically designed so as to not make slugging 10x more powerful with the game end feature they put in. Putting in base kit perks for Killers is a terrible idea to buff them because unlike Survivors Killers vary in strength so when you make something like BBQ base kit someone like Trickster is still going to suck but Killers like Blight, Wraith, Nurse, and any other Killer with map mobility will shoot up in strength. The correct course of action is for BHVR to visit those weaker killers and buff them from there.

And information for that matter is easily the most powerful thing in the game. There's a reason why Nowhere to Hide, Lethal Pursuer, Floods of rage, and any other information perk are considered powerful and that's because they give you the exact coordinates to a survivor's position which is insanely powerful. Lethal Pursuer completely eliminates the early game phase where the Killer only has a slight idea of where the Survivors are, Floods of rage can be used to gain map-wide intelligence on where everyone is and can show the Killer where he should be (i.e. survivor unhooks survivor and now the Killer sees someone working on a gen he recently passed by, or sees someone stealing, etc.) And on that last point, most good Killers don't really camp anyways because more often than not its a waste of time, so they don't really need that extra incentive to go away anyways.

See this is poor reasoning IMO, i can agree it will never be eliminated, but you really think there would be 0 decrease if killers had a little more info after a hook.

I mean the chain of causation is pretty clear

Killers got buffed, and BBQ got nerfed

BBQ usage dropped, camping increased to the point that they had to basekit borrowed time, which essentially punishes camping, as your suggestion is, and how much effect did that have on camping, I would say pretty minimal based on forum complaints.

BBQ on its own as it is now is a pretty weak perk only actually worth giving up a perk slot on a handful of killers.

Alot of killer players who arent super skilled dont feel they can afford to run info perks because they arent as impactful as slowdown, chase or anti healing perks.

The core issue is, why leave the area of the hook when you know someone has to come there, and you dont know where anyone else is? Lets say this accounts for 25% of camping (not counting endgame), and lets be honest against a decent nurse or Blight your probably losing lets say 80% of your games regardless, although according to the forums its more like 98% especially with strong addons.

So if you look at the equation as a whole eliminating 25% of the camping in the game completely (again not counting endgame), vs giving a small boost to the 20% of nurse/blight games you were gonna have a real shot in, is a pretty fair trade.

Not to mention the assumed boost in kill rate that you are suggesting may actually lead to nerfs for those killers because we know kill rates are the most relevant statistic used in terms of balancing.

Best idea I can think of.

Hook a survivor will show the least hooked survivors' aura, if 2-3 survivors have the same hook count, randomly showing 1 of them.

it not MIGHT. It WILL. Every aura reading perk will is super strong on high mobility killer LIKE nurse (but not limited to).

Killers got brutal strength, STBFL, thanatophobia. Survivors got what? BT? Killers are actually the once getting more basekit perks

That only means you are low MMR. When I play survivor, I see them every like 7th game. They are very common. Less then it used to be (thanks to wesker - who is another killer that highly benefits from basekit bbq), but still often.

Of the three type of campers you describe you have:

Type 1 will continue to camp and tunnel.

Type 2 will mostly be unaffected by BBQ and still use tunnel/camp as it still is the most effective way to win. Do you know what killers are most likely to use that info strategically and get value of no camping? Nurses, blights, spirits. The strongest killers currently in dbd that really dont need more buffs to their kit.

And for type 3, you could have more killers inclined to go for chases, but the problem is that it still relies on the killer to actually abandon camping on its own decision.

I dont want to sound like that guy that tells others how to play, but killers dont really need to be constantly pinpointed the survivors' location to try to chase them. They already are shown the locations of gens, so unless the survs are doing some sneaky gimmick plays you are most likely to find them near gens.

So you have a buff that does not affect 1 type, will mostly not affect another type, will buff the killers that least need it and the only types that it affects it still relies on them.

ok, so if i am in the average mmr which i most definitely am, then you are complainign about something that occurs in high mmr, which is not where the majority of players are and not what the game is balanced around. Nurse wasnt invented when the devs expected people to play a party game competitively.

kill rates are around where behavior wants them, and in fact are aiming to get the kill rate a bit higher and thus survivor escape rate down a bit.

So i dont think i agree about needing a helping hand tho yea an argument could be made about soloq

distortion would become meta...