General Discussions
General Discussions
Hard to have fun anymore without anti-tunneling perks
I like to play games and experiment with a lot of different builds but most of the time I'm just wasting my time since the meta appears to be wait by the hook and hit the rescuer or the hooked for cheap hits. I don't want to use DS, etc all the time but I suppose I'll have to. Unfortunate.
Comments
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I really don't know why the DS nerf hasn't been reverted, the only decent anti tunnel perk now is Off the Record and that gets hard countered by STBFL.
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Well the thing I forgot to include is that I play solo matches most of the time and in order to counter tunneling and camping effectively you need coms.
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So having to hit the survivor an extra time isn't impactful?
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No, actually not at all.
Killers can just hit survivors off the hook and Endurance from Borrowed will overlap Off the Record so survivors can have no value from that perk on camping and tunneling killers.
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Not to play devil's advocate, but doesn't the hide scratch marks/pools of blood effet still take place if you're hit through endurance ?
Granted, it's not that big of a help against a determined killer, but it's at least small value I guess.
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I don't think Off the Records works when someone is deep wound from built-in borrowed.
I doubt it.
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The thing about the meta is that it cuts both ways. As killer, there’s no way to tell if you are going against a squad with a full meta build (gen rush, op healing, second chance perks etc) or a group of solos with meme builds. As such, if you want to win consistently, you have to assume every match is going to be a sweat fest. Both sides are playing to win. If you just want to use fun builds, then winning (or staying alive in the case of survivor mains) has to be secondary.
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Can we just revert back to DBD 2018
Everyone let bygones be bygones
No more perk nerfs or fine tuning nerfs for killers power
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Ironically enough, OTR works best against Killers who are nice and don't tunnel.
If you hit someone straight off of hook like I do, you never have to deal with OTR. If you wait, you do.
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Thats what happens when the dbd community weaponizes perks like DS and OtR (on the PTB). They get nerfed to a point where they work just as intended.
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Its always the problems of this game, since old DS to DH, BT, OTR. They punish fair play killers more than tunnelers IF survivors exploit the 2nd chance perks' protections
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Pretty much. The best counter for old DS was to trigger it on purpose and get it out of the way. As a fair killer you got hit by it, when you least expected it.
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If that part of the perk were so impactful then it would have seen much more use pre-buff than it ever did.
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True !
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Endurance perks like otr and bt are honestly worthless especially when dealing with tunneling or camping killers it is also really dumb that you can not get those effects after 5 gens are done I get it if the gate is open that is more fair for killer but survivors not getting a chance to tank a hit off hook after 5 gens are done and no gates powered is unfair
Especially in scenarios when you are being chased otr still active tunnelling killer catching up on you oh 5th gen is done otr deactivates killer hits you down even though you technically had 10-30 seconds left on otr
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Off The Record should change to just invincibility like Mettle of Man
Since base kit BT I rarely see people running OTR and it takes 2 seconds from a camping killer to ruin your entire perk usage
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Well I have just resumed playing since quitting back in March; and the camping is much more common since then so that is why I assumed it was a meta change. One thing I noticed though is that I get insta-picked up now. It used to be that they would slug me and be worried about DS and go find someone else. Now, they just immediately assume I don't have it or don't care if I do.
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Off the Record has never done either of those things? It's Iron Will and Distortion for 80 seconds.
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Wow, so simple. So I can just do that as Freddy or Ghost Face and get a 4k?
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If you got hit by DS after the conspic-action nerf, it was entirely on you. DS was honestly in a pretty good spot before the stun time nerf, with the one problem being the no-win situation in EGC.
DS should go back to a longer stun, and activate off both unhooks. OTR should be changed to X seconds of 'no scratch marks, no sound, no blood trail' after being unhooked to become an information denial perk rather than just competing directly with DS.
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Hard to have fun anymore as killer without anti gen regression perks.
I missed the part where the game is killer sided when survivors have the tools to deal with every killer in the game except Nurse.
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I got it all confused sorry ! It does hide grunts of pain though. That's what messed my memory haha !
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Its possible to ask a teammate to heal you and go back to body block killer from chased survivor.
I think prenerf DS should be 1 use as basekit, and DS perk gives 2nd use. Having DS to get both hook would make it 100% used from survivors.
2nd chances in general were always needed for lower skill survivors to give them a chance to play, in the other hand high skill survivors can weaponize them so hard. DS could be disable when healthy, BT could remove collision and they're all good.
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Uh nah I'll pass on the game that was 100% survivor sided. Especially when I can't play the only killer that means anything to me at this point in time.
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Yeah in the current state, Killers must camp and tunnel to win at high MMR. It's sad but who knows where it's gonna be addressed. This is especially true for weaker Killers who don't have much to work with. DS just isn't reliable anymore to counter this.
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- I'm pretty sure you don't want an anti gen regression perk as a killer (or would this be a perk similar to "No Mither" but for killers?)
- Let's not start with yet another "game is x-sided" angle
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I mean survivor is pretty much not even fun at all anymore unless you're in a SWF or just memeing.
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I say this as a survivor main that the DS nerf was completely required and should never return to anything close to that state.
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Yes.
Denying perk value is one of the best ways to win matches as Killer.
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It's like, "Do they not realize that a 5-second stun gives like a 20+ second, cross-map lead?"
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It wasn't much of a counter at all. People would say, "SIMPLY eat a DS early so you don't have to deal with it in endgame" (as if you're gonna remember everyone who has or hasn't DS'd you, amidst the rest of the chaos). But in my experience, and this was never really disproven, eating a DS is the reason you were in endgame in the first place! And that's because eating it would put you in a reverse-snowball (giving up all the momentum that you had) that would directly lead to the survivors doing all the gens and making it to endgame.
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Overall you can play that way but you need to have teammates who do something right, like not unhooking you in the Killers face, not run to the hook while being chased, taking the heat for you and so on. Most Killers are fine with going after another survivors however when you are the only one they find this gets hard.
Against a hard camping Killer most of those perks are useless. Best idea here for solo players is just to run Sprint Burst and Off the Record to get away quickly. However the person going for the rescue better brings Deliverance or the whole cycle starts again. At least all three of those perks are pretty good and not wasted slots...
An issue for survivors is that you do not get value out of those perks when a Killer plays "fair". It is the same dilemma as with UnbreakaBill: The perk is wasted 90% of the time and you just straight up loose the other 10%.
Tunneling and camping are best dealed with by using deterrence: Having a perk in the game that punished you harshly when you commit to a certain action (such as UnbreakaBill). This was why old Decisive Strike was a good idea on paper and only got ruined by people abusing it when a Killer was not tunneling.
I think the issue would get less worse when more people use Kindred and Reassurance to punish camping Killers. Same for new Borrow Time and Off the Record+Sprint Burst.
I get what you mean, but it is the same for Killers with Adrenaline or Hope. Those perks are bound by their nature to be swingy for a huge effect. Nothing like seeing the last gen finished and you Adrenaline triggers during a chase.
I think a "fair" change would be to make those perks always work after the first hook (hook, not hook state) and only work on the second hook before the last generator.
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The only part that was warranted was the endgame deactivation, the stun time was already rather lacklustre before the nerf.
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My thing is because I know people will tunnel, camp, yada yada etc., I realized why not run my Gen/Anti Tunnel perks. it's boring but effective. If one side is running perks to win, then I'm allowed to as well.
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