hag is really just complete garbage at this point

Who are you talking to?

And yeah, camping. Camping isn't skillful and sucks. Therefore, Hag is bad and should be reworked or buffed.

She's not strong, reasons are up above.

To start off, her and dredge are miles apart when it comes to chase and map pressure since Dredge’s teleport has travel time, is already preset, has a husk for chases, has a cooldown for when you can and can’t teleport, and has a passive ability, while hag used her traps for basically everything

Hag’s traps also teleport fast enough to catch survivors or else I wouldn’t be seeing survivors getting hit right after she teleports so idk how she doesn’t teleport fast enough, only issue with her teleports is how rough they are to actually attack afterwards on old gen consoles sometimes

Plus to bring up her other things, her traps at loops can cause 50/50s, her only downside is needing to set up like trapper, however unlike trapper you either have to use a flashlight to break one part of her web, personally break it yourself and risk hag slapping you, or ignore it by crouching over it, and even with that 2/3 counters just gives her a trap bag to set again in a better web

Hag isn’t garbage, the whole reason you don’t see her alot is cause 110% ms feels gross to steer and her power can be pretty boring compared to other killers as its pretty straight forward with how it works

Yeah, and that destroys her power. People have told me "OH, HAG IS REALLY GOOD CUZ SHE CAN TELEPORT TWICE AND DOWN SOMEONE RUNNING AWAY" Like, no, that requires a web, and if a single Survivor sets them off and then loops you while you chase them, that's ggs.

Hag is web reliant. That results in 3 gens with all 4 Survivors alive, and 4 Survivors can easily conquer a 3 gen simply because there's too many people for the Killer to handle if they pressure the gens correctly.

She can camp good? So what? This community hates camping, why defend it on a Killer who needs it? People don't like Knight and how he needs to camp for kills because of his bad his power is...

... We're defending Knight now? ... Really?

And cool, he can double tap and insta-down. Bubba, Billy, etc... all say hello.

I suppose you could argue that Knight can force someone into getting detected by a guard or bodyblocked into getting hit by a guard... but then you could use banners if the Knight refuses to hit you, or force Knight to hit the Survivor to avoid double tapping if the Survivor seems like they'll outlast a hunt, etc.

People who have a lot of experience with her realy make her shine, using strats no beginner or casual player will think of or know how to put in place.

In those hands, she is very strong.

However, she is not beginner friendly by any means, and you really need to strap your ass to your chair to play her long enough to know all her tricks. For most players, she's completely reliant on if survivors know how to counter her. If they do, you lose. Simple as that.

She's in a weird spot where you can't really buff her because very good players are so strong (like Nurse), and the fact that she's played so little makes most survivors unaware of how to counter her.

That creates a self fulfilling prophecy that since they don't know how to counter her, her killrates seem fine on paper, but once you hit mid mmr and go against players who can counter her she doesn't have anything in her base kit to help you. It's gonna be spite and wiles keeping you going and nothing else.

But since she's so hard to play, no one plays her. So no one knows how to counter her. So her killrates remain fine, not buff worthy despite so few people playing her.

I do think that should Hag get some buffs, she'd be played a bit more, which means more people would know how to play against her, and it would therefore not necessarily make her overpowered as she still has a billion counters and can be made an m1 killer by good teams.

I have nothing against killers being hard to master, I think the game should have more kilers like Nurse, Hag or even Knight that are hard to learn but rewarding to win with.

I just think Hag has maybe a little too many counters. Or is slow as hell.

Hag is alright. She just doesn't fare too well in the current meta, is all. Hag is still an A to B tier killer.

If you actually think that Dredge is stronger than Hag... I've a bad news for you.=)

That is absolutely true. Dredge is a direct power creep on her because he's 115%, can teleport, and has a secondary ability. They both suffer from the same problem in that, intentional or unintentional, the game stutters and doesn't let you immediately act out of your tp. So what should have been a simple tp into a hit becomes almost an impossibility, unless the survivors just aren't running the loops efficiently.

I don't know how to explain Michi's consistent success. I really don't. He either barely goes against strong survivors, or gets Hag's best maps a lot of the time. I've seen tons of his matches take place on Midwich.

Actually that's wrong. You don't get fast enough teleports to catch survivors, especially if the survivors are doing the movement exploit to not pull their camera. Hag has a slight stutter when she teleports. You can feel it. It's why she used to be my second-most played killer, and now I either don't play her or get bullied in 98% of my matches with her.

Not many, but others have acknowledged the lack of an instant hit out of tp. They argue "So you think you're supposed to get a hit just from tp'ing?" If I instantly tp the moment the trap is tripped, yes. It's criminal to not get a hit from that, I don't need to explain. I'm guessing most of the people who say Hag is strong or doesn't need buffs either have a connection advantage or something to make her to feel less janky, barely go against SWF, or straight-up don't play her.

Really? 4 survivors can't beat a 3-gen? I think we know who's complaining about 3-gens, calling them uncounterable then. It's certainly not Demogorgon or Pyramid Head's abilities that are holding it down.

That's the thing like Dredge or Nurse they play differently than other killers because of the TP mechanic. Hag like many have said is similar to Trapper as she's a setup Killer but is set up in a web pattern.

What she needs buffed on is allowing her traps to still be hidden even on bright maps like Cornfields or Ormond....that's what really makes her "weak" on bright maps her traps stand out like a beacon in the night and can easily be "countered"

The stuttering can be avoided by teleporting fast enough and getting the instant hit. However, if the timing is not perfect you are right. Wating for even a fraction of a second can cause you to be unable to attack. The little stutter can save survivors from getting hit very often. That doesn't make Hag a bad killer though, especially since it can be avoided. Still, I hope BHVR will fix that soon.

Hag is definitely still good, in A tier for sure

Hag perfectly demonstrates the disparity between solo and SWF. A competent Hag will destroy the vast majority of solo teams. But if you get a coordinated SWF with a couple flashlights, it becomes a different ball game.

You're not hearing me. The tp is instant, as soon as it triggers, and yet I have to walk a few seconds to catch up and hit them, completely defeating the purpose of the power. Mostly because of the movement exploits I've mentioned, but sometimes just in general.

Ahh. I thought you were talking about this obnoxious bug.

You have the ability do an instant lunge right after teleporting. That can only be countered, if the survivor triggers the trap from the edge of it's range and then changes direction. In this instant you are not guaranteed a hit. But since the game will mainly take place inside the Hag's web of traps this doesn't make too much of a difference because eventually you will catch the survivor with another trap by either hitting them after the tp or reading them correctly and not go for the tp to let them run into you.

You can avoid this scenario by putting traps behing corners where survivors cannot see them or you put them right next to a vault and chase them so they have to vault into them. Sometimes its enough to set a trap in the open where it is covered by grass. Few people expect that.

I keep seeing, "Just use your web," but you can't set it up in the first place against people who know how to play against her and trip her traps safely. They can do the same thing to corner and window traps; they just come from the right angle. So you just lose again and again until your MMR goes down enough to face people who don't know how to play against her, and THEN "she's fine." Same with many weak killers out there. It's why you see "Wraith OP!" "Pinhead OP!"

Did you really just say Hag is weak?

Why? You can make any killer look insane if you only upload wins. Hag is good against most solos and pretty trash against SWFs. You just need a destroyer of traps and Hag is doomed.