Aggressively playing Anti-Gen builds with no intention of downing
Is throwing the game and holding it hostage.
Please stop it. I've had 3 games today where killers ran oppressive anti-gen perks and camped a three gen with absolutely no desire to secure any downs (two survivors were dead on hook, and at times injured trying to fix the gens).
Comments
-
That is the meta. It’s horrible, and boring. Old ruin/undying wasn’t this bad by a long shot
4 -
Question : if killers are not going for downs in your games how was 2 people dead on hook???
Sounds like they were being hooked but the gens prob being close to being done and killer started slugging or running people off to get some regression on gens.
Trust me he was trying to win. Not everyone has the best strategy.
Petiontial energy is a good perk to break a 3 gen.
Now knight has a strong 3 gen game and its almost impossible to break.
3 gen strategy is a good strategy for killer to run with gen regression perks. Might not be fun to go against but think you may need a new loadout to combat a 3 gen situation.
2 -
Because he was playing normal until the 3-gen happened.
Once it happened, he refused to participate in chase, would only hit to deter people and otherwise stay in the 3-gen area, and even had perks that would perfectly help in chase had he decided to down someone (eg. Eruption).
I understand defending a 3-gen, I understand trying to lure people into a deadzone to catch them. But none of that was happening. We even at one point stopped trying to fix the gens and went to do the snowmen highfives and he was still standing in the 3-gen, absolutely refusing to participate in gameplay.
Theres a huge difference between defending a 3-gen and completely disengaging from gameplay.
3 -
If possible run Hyperfocus + Stakeout, it's been left viable for a reason, I don't know what else to tell you. If they're playing meta also play meta.
0 -
Using anti generator effects for excessively long periods of time can be considered holding the game hostage if and only if the killer has demonstrated no attempt to actually try to kill/down survivors.
The strategy is fine when used to actually win games, the problem is when someone stops participating in normal gameplay and starts using it to hold the game hostage and grief instead.
2 -
Are you sure they weren't just playing defensive?
That said - yes, it sucks. I've had a rash of survivors going AFK and somehow using snowmen to avoid getting crows, stalling the game out for ages. I wish this sort of thing didn't happen on either end.
1 -
Yes, we stopped trying to get the gens, and did the snowmen objectives, and the killer didnt leave the area whatsoever. He'd injure the two dead on hook ppl and wouldn't just down them to secure the kills.
0 -
Yes. More Killers are testing it out after the Hens video.
I did myself today. It's completely possible to hold games hostage for an hour. It's not even really hard.
2 -
Why would the killer leave the area? Thats how you lose 3 gens, and they have zero pressure reason to do so. Chasing someone to the opposite end of the map is giving up their pressure they have, and the survivors 3 genned themselves instead of forcing one of those gens when the killer was apparently playing normally before that point.
The blame is just as much with rushing outer gens as it is with the killer maintaining pressure to capitalize on that mistake. You can make arguments about the shared agency of survivors and "it was the other survivors who caused the 3 gen" but at the end of the day, there is absolutely zero reason for a killer to chase anyone further away from that position unless they are confident they will get the down and be able to bring them back to a hook near said 3 gen. Asking them to leave that area for long enough to do a gen is asking them to throw the match.
3 -
That's worth a report then.
0 -
For reference
Peanits says it's "usually doctor ... shocking gens to keep everyone in madness 3 and stall the game..." but it's not limited exclusively doctor. Any effect that prevents you from repairing generators if used in such a way that the survivors can't actually finish the generators can be considered holding the game hostage in extreme situations. ie. Using your power on knight or legion to constantly force survivors to spend time not repairing while simultaneously applying infinite regressors like CoB/Overcharge often in combination with other supporting perks like surveilance or slowdowns like thana/pentimento.
this of course would have to be done for a very long time with video evidence to prove that the player is actually just trying grief people, that he is not actually trying to win, and is refusing to participate in normal gameplay.
0 -
Except that wasnt what was happening whatsoever, and you have ignored what I said just to perpetrate your own beliefs/agenda. We had two survivors that were dead on hook, injured, doing the gens and the killer would refuse to do a 10 second chase, with zero gen pressure from us from constant gen regression.
I said the problem wasn't gen regression builds, it's not protecting the 3-gen, but refusing to completely participate in gameplay especially in the event of getting 2 death hooks.
0 -
There is a big difference between playing defensive and not going for Downs anymore. Latter would be to not do the Objective anymore.
It is widely known and accepted that Survivors who dont repair Gens anymore are holding the game hostage. But a Killer who is not trying to down and hook Survivors anymore is also holding the game hostage if the only thing they are doing is to protect their 3-gen.
I had this happen two times in the last few days - first a Wraith on Haddonfield (Gen inside the Strode House, Gen in front of the Strode House and Gen in the playground next to the Strode House). Second was a Pinhead on RPD (two Gens in the Main Hall (which is still BS and really needs to be changed) and at least one Gen right next to it).
And if the Killer is only protecting their 3-Gen and refuse to chase Survivors, which are only a little bit away from the 3 Gens, they are holding the game hostage. Because at this point, the Survivors try to do their Objective to progress the game and it is the job of the Killer to progress the game as well. The Survivors have to risk to die to do their Objective to not hold the game hostage and the Killer has to risk to lose the last Gen to not hold the game hostage.
And yet there are people saying that the Killer is only doing their Objective - no, they dont. Their objective is to kill the Survivors. And they are refusing to do it. That the Objective can be fulfilled after 1 hour (which is the time the Trial will end) does not even count, it is unrealistic to expect players to stay in the game for at least 45 minutes when nothing is happening (I just assumed that in a very slow game it takes 15 minutes to reach the stage where only one Gen needs to be completed).
Furthermore, I guess someone will come up with "But it is the Survivors fault that there is a 3-Gen"...No. Any semi-competent Killer can see 3 Gens which can be protected right from the start. Especially if Maps make it super easy to get a 3-Gen (my two examples, Resting Place, Suffocation Pit). Sure, you can 99 another Gen and try to get those in the 3-Gen done, but this does not really change anything, because the game can still not progress.
Last but not least - since a Content Creator has made this known, I really hope that not more people try to play like that.
1 -
I wasn't in your match, so I have no idea how much truth you are stretching with your summary of events. I spoke in a very general sense because thats all I have to go off of, the majority of the time not leaving the 3 gen area is the smart play, with the exception being if they are able to get the down and hook both close to the area and in a very quick manner. You say 10 second chases, but you need to then add the time it takes to pick them up and transport them to a hook/return to the 3gen to check each gen, and a gen could easily be done in that amount of time. The more survivors that are alive, the faster they can get a single gen done to break the siege. It becomes a constant chain of judgement calls, and by nature people are generally going to be more cautious when on the backfoot (just like how somoene on death hook will generally play less risky, knowing they are close to being eliminated for a single mistake.)
You aren't really grasping that anyone who didn't witness the match itself might think you're exagerating on one or more of the elements you claim, including "refusing to completely participate in gameplay." Having two people on death hook and commiting to either of them would be trading 1 kill for losing the match, so its understandable that they would be looking for an opening that wouldn't cost them more than they gain. Without being there, none of us are going to be able to objectively appraise their intent.
The little bias quip was cute, though. Agenda indeed.
2 -
? The killer's objective is to kill. He had two people on death hook, one person already dead. I hadnt been hooked whatsoever during the game. He had multiple opportunities to kill the other two players and refused to engage in a chase, especially when he had the gens under control from his regression perks. It was almost impossible to get one gen past 50%.
It got to the point that we could completely disengage from doing the gens to do a secondary objective with absolutely no threat because the killer wasn't interested in engaging, but to protect the 3-gen as a Knight.
0 -
The killer's objective is to kill as many as possible, not to kill one to knowingly let the other 3 escape. You say it was impossible to get one gen past 50%, but ignore the fact that the base time for that other 50% is 45 seconds, which would be reduced even further with multiple people piling on said gen since all 4 were alive still (which would leave 3 to commit while the killer commits to the chase/down/hook/return trip) You're severely underestimating how much time waste is involved in the act of getting a person out, even in that scenario.
You keep claiming they refused to commit to a chase, yet you yourself refused to commit to a gen, even though you apparently hadn't been hooked whatsoever. You're asking the killer to throw to "participate in gameplay" while being unwilling to do so yourself.
1 -
You must be 3 meters tall with the amount of stretching you are doing.
Defending a hostage situation (which is clearly happening if the Killer is refusing to progress the game if the Survivors are trying to do so) is pretty concerning.
1 -
I already said that 1 was dead, two were dead on hook (whilst injured at times).
Idk how many times i have to say this. It would literally take one swing to take one of them down, and he refused to do that.
0 -
I'm not defending a hostage situation, I'm doubting the retelling of events and trying to explain what can be causing their misunderstanding of them. They claimed that two people were on death hook and that the killer suddenly changed strategies entirely when it got down to the 3 gen scenario, which tells me they weren't actively camping it from the start and adapted their strategy. This doesn't sound like one of those pinhead standing on the box memes or anything like that. Save your concern.
1 -
If you run in a straight line, it takes an average of about 40 seconds to get two hits. The time to down, as well as the first hit, are obviously going to be variable depending on the distance from the start of the chase. Once again, without this data, it is impossible to judge whether they were refusing to commit due to "refusing to participate" or whether they judged that the time to catch up, secure the hit, hope there's no dead hard to extend it further, pick them up, walk them to a hook, and get back to the 3 gen is a reasonable amount of time to not sacrifice the gens in the process. All we have to go off of is your loaded retelling of events. If you want vindication, at least post a video of the match, your perspective wouldn't tell the whole story, but it would be better than having to rely on your claims.
0 -
Oh, you can believe me that this totally happens. In the two examples in my post, this was the case:
Wraith on Haddonfield-->1 Survivor dead, 3 Survivors alive with 2 on Death Hook. Still refused to chase anyone further than a few meters away.
Pinhead on RPD-->Started camping his 3-Gen right at the start, did not do anything else than kicking the 3 Gens and the occasional chase.
You cannot really say that either of them is just defending Gens. While in both cases the Killers planned the 3-Gen from the start (which the Wraith was also doing, but I did not notice it right away. On RPD I noticed it because I always check the Main Hall due to the majority of games spawning two Gens in it), even if the Killer is changing their strategy to protect a 3-Gen, if they are still not trying to progress the game, they are holding it hostage.
0 -
I don't doubt that people hold the game hostage, I'm saying the account provided sounds more like they were salty the killer didn't let them win than actually holding the game hostage. Like I mentioned, I'm familiar with the memes that content creators are doing to hold game hostage in 3 gens, I'm saying this doesnt sound like that.
1 -
The part you said about “survivors three genned themselves” isn’t accurate. Just today I played a solo Q against a spirit running call of brine, eruption, overcharge, and nowhere to hide on an autohaven map. She found the 3 Gen at the start of game, and didn’t leave the area. 1 Gen was finished at the other end of the map, but me and the other survivors rigorously tried breaking the 3 Gen with 4 gens left. She would not budge. The game lasted for 50 minutes until people just started giving up and moving at her wearing snowmen, of course she downed and killed them, still having 4 gens left. The combo is busted.
1 -
I never said not chasing anyone, i specifically said not chasing them away from the 3 gen. Thats the entire point of a 3 gen, to maintain pressure in that area of the map while looking for an opening to get a down that continues said pressure without sacrificing it. Not chasing someone to the opposite end of the map isn't refusing to chase anyone, but nuance has no place on these forums.
1 -
I dont record my games with the intention of 'trying to catch people out', that's ######### and terrible. I benefit nothing from posting about my experiences because they already happened, and all i can ask is for future killers to be more sympathetic.
I've not talked down on anyone just trying to defend strategically, or using regression perks. I'm trying to condemn people that hold the game hostage, and in this case - the game lasted 50 minutes and the guy continued to stalk my profile afterwards for some reason. I have a clip of end chat where the killer was being an ass and admitting that he didnt care for holding the game hostage but I'm not going to post it either because im not looking to name or shame.
1 -
They said 2 were on death hook, and apparently 1 was already dead, when the killer changed strategies as soon as the 3 gen was all that was left. I'm not talking about your spirit game, and I fully acknowledge that there are killers that will start the game fully intended to never leave their 3 gen (especially trap killers like Trapper or Hag.) I don't understand why people keep purposely mis-attributing that to my argument.
1 -
Likewise nothing is benefited from a salt topic about losing to a 3 gen, yet here we are. I tried explaining the reasoning behind why legitimate 3 gen scenarios play out and how this situation related to them, but you just want to complain, so there's nothing to learn.
Edit: My point this entire time has been that your personal retelling of events doesn't give us enough information to say whether they were refusing to play like you claim, and I tried explaining why your perspective might have not understood what was going through their mind if it was legitimate play. All this stuff you keep adding about them stalking your profile or whatever is not information that anyone else is going to have. My only intent was to try to help you understand why you might be misunderstanding what the killer is attempting to do with their play.
1 -
You’re right, sorry dude, I didn’t see that second post he made
0 -
It gives attention to the Devs and is feedback on my experience.
I don't need to be catching people out and trying to 'make an example' of others for it though.
1 -
If you want to get the devs attention, record it. Biased (as in your side of the story, not about killer vs survivor) perspectives don't tell them anything other than the fact you are upset with how the match played out. They have zero information on what actually happened, and cannot corroborate or deny any of your claims as to what happened. That type of feedback is actually extremely frustrating to developers because its irrelevant in all senses other than "the game made me upset."
1 -
Misunderstanding? I was in a game for 50 minutes!! because the killer refused to chase people that were injured WITHIN the area of the 3-gen. We had to physically stand in the area and not run for him to kill us and get us out of the game.
We weren't in a deadzone for hooks, and the basement was right there too if he wanted to go for hooks.
0 -
Considering that I reported the user, if their report system works, they should be able to take my report seriously and review the game themselves, but that doesn't change the fact of whether I would post the video or not - and would be more effort than I am willing to give, to blur out the name so that I can prove some random on the forums wrong.
Do you hold other users that complain about survivors to the same standard?
0 -
You would have gotten out of the game a lot faster if you didn't refuse to commit to a gen. It was a stalemate, where neither side budged for an apparently absurd amount of time. You talked about going off and doing snowman high fives with other survivors, which says you were just as uncommitted as they were. I've also tried explaining multiple times that you are refusing to understand the time commitment involved in even short chases, and that nobody on the forums is going to have any evidence to judge how much time they would have had to do so without sacrificing their pressure. This repetition is pointless.
2 -
We didn't refuse to commit. We were trying to do two gens to pressure the killer a bit more, and he would only enter the area, and at most send his guards after us to run us away from the area.
I already said we tried to do the gen, even injured and he refused to do the chase. Im tired of repeating myself tbh.
1 -
If you didn't record it, the report was pointless. Their report system being horrible and archaic is a separate matter, but thats why I was saying you need to record it when that happens. They need evidence to corroborate your claims.
Also no, I just happened to see your topic and tried to clear up a potential misunderstanding. I apologize for trying to potentially help you understand your opponent, especially when a large amount of frustrations for both sides in this game come from lack of understanding on what the other side is doing/thinking.
1 -
I don't need to 'understand' a player that went after me on steam and admitted to not caring about holding the game hostage.
1 -
Yeah.. it's so bizarre to defend a situation so badly and try to 'explain' the situation to someone who was in the game, and trying so weirdly to get me to post a video as a 'gotcha' moment lol..
2 -
You wanted the killer to knowingly leave the 3 gen to get a down at the cost of sacrificing the last gen, but were unwilling to hunker down on the last gen at the cost of sacrificing your hook states. I'm simply trying to help you understand that they have as little logical reason to acquiesce to your demand as you did to theirs. Thats what stalemates are.
3 -
You don't need to help me understand a situation that was a pretty blatant hostage situation. Stop trying to mansplain to me my game lmfao.
2 -
Again, that has absolutely nothing to do with any of what I explained, and you didn't even bring it up until well after I started discussing the strategy or mentality behind how 3 gens happen. Stop trying to conflate arguments, if they did things like that its not something I would remotely condone.
I can't defend a situation I didn't experience, nor can corroborate. Learning how your opponent thinks is a very important aspect of strategy, and I was honestly trying to be helpful. Your defensiveness is one thing, but I'd really appreciate not taking it out on me, and my comments about posting a video weren't intended as a "gotcha" moment any more than they were to actually give context and corroboration to your complaints.
2 -
Please stop going back and forth. You continuing on with an argument you already lost hurts my brain.
1 -
I wouldn't say he lost the argument.
The only reason OP can claim that the person wasn't trying to win is because of postgame stuff, not because of in-game actions. Because, and this is the entire point, intentionally not killing and extremely defensive and unconfident gameplay look identical.
2 -
I havent gone back and forth on a single thing, while your comment is both pointless and needlessly argumentative.
2 -
Hyper + Skateout isnt meta. If teammate in chase and leave you alot of time on Gen, you would done the Gen anyway without the perks. If teammate cant take chase long, you have to leave Gen to secure, which defeat the Hyper.
Beside, OP said killer not leaving 3 Gens. Even with 4 Skateout & 6 Hyper focus stacks by default. You cant finish Gen in the span of 20sec from killer patrol between 3 Gens.
And if you say the other teammate should take attention and get in chase, I just copy paste this...
he was still standing in the 3-gen
1 -
yeah I understand people want to win but this strat actually being abused seems like someone told DBD players they will get financial compensation if they 4k
1 -
...so you're complaining about him allegedly holding the game hostage while you refused to do gens, thereby holding the game hostage? lol
you know you can censor names, right?
0 -
Yeah I'm pretty sure they don't actually have any sort of match replay function, even in-house, so there's no way for them to review the game themselves, which is why they would be reliant on your video.
being on the other side of the map high-fiving =/= commitment
0 -
are you seriously accusing someone of gaslighting in a video game forum lmfao
i mean it was explained to you several times in great detail why you would want to have a video, but you do seem intent on completely ignoring anything that might prove you wrong
lol
0 -
It's completely bizarre. People post their experiences here everyday and don't get interrogated and gaslighted about what happened in their own games. Lots of us survivors are getting these games, don't worry. It's good to share your experience as feedback.
1
