Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
My opinion on tunneling and camping
To start this. Camping and tunneling sucks for the game experience of the survivor. That's a fact. It's also a fact that there are time where it is the right call to camp or tunnel.
So I think most of us can agree on that we want camping and tunneling to be as little as possible. Bhvr could do that. Bhvr could make it less effective so you almost always loose when you do it and that it's only the right call in certain situations.
But and here starts the stuff many people don't want to hear. But that would mean either buffs to killer or nerfs to survivor.
If we take really toxic 5 Gen camping and brutal tunneling where you ignore the others even if you could easily get others on the hook aside it's you often feel like it's the only right call to camp or tunnel.
I want to focus more on tunneling since I think camping is a bad call most of the time aside from endgame. Tunneling is crazy effective and there could be made the point that it is to effective. It feels very bad for the survivor that get tunneld and many survivor tent to say killer that do it are lazy or do it to be toxic and I certainly won't deny that those players exist.
What I want to point out is that since bhvr atm does nothing about it the game now is kinda balanced with tunneling in it. If we would take it out doesn't matter how but let's say it's gone tomorrow Kill rates would drop significantly and not because killers are lazy and don't know how to play but because many rely on it since for most killer a typical game Beginns like this.
You search the first survivor start the chase and since there are still all pallets on the map you most of the time get the down when the first two or even three gens pop. So now you are at a point where if the survivor don't screw up it goes down hill. One is on hook one gets chased one rescues one does a Gen. by the time you get the second hook the first is saved and the fourth gen is probably almost done rince and repeat you are probably at three or four hooks by the time gates are powered.
Oke I know I know this scenario expects the survivor to don't do things like two people go for unhook but what I wanted to show with this is its nothing the killer influences. If the survivor don't screw up that's how it goes. And when bhvr finally gives solo q what they deserve and gives them more info so they don't screw up this will happen even more.
So the killer tunnels because the chances to get a kill that way is higher the game gets better to manage with one less survivor.
I thin when bhvr finally addresses tunneling and camping and helps solo q survivor should not be surprised to either see big killer buffs/survivor nerfs or since it's bhvr don't see them for a year and see q times up to 20 min
To end this I want to say it again. I don't want to defend hard tunneling and facecamping in any way all I want to say is since bhvr don't do anything about it for so long it now is part of the balance.
What are your opinions about it
Comments
-
I wont say camp but get rid of tunneling a most killers will leave.If killers have to hook 3 times everyone without repeating.The escape rate would be 3 escapes
1 -
*laughs in blight*
0 -
Blight is certainly strong enough and that's kinda what I mean. Survivor would need to accept that every killer would need to come to blight level wich isn't even possible since what makes blight good is his speed but trapper or pig or hag won't suddenly start speeding
0 -
The problem with camping and tunneling isn't that they exist but how effective they are
The difference between 4 survivors and 3 survivors is just way to big. I'm still thibk that adding some kind of "desperation" repair speed bonus as soon as a survivor has died would be a good solution for this.
Not enough to completely offset it but enough so that a 3v1 isn't completely hopeless. Making it so that the ideal strategy is having 2 survivors on deadhook and then taking them out with a 1 2 punch would help a lot with tunneling without asking killers to go for 12 hooks every game
Camping i feel is more killerspecific. A m1 killer camping usually isn't that big of a deal and are easy to trade with. That said i do think the hooktimers could increase a bit to offset the increase in gen times.
Also wish more people knew the counter to deadlock by leaving one gen 99% so it keeps hitting that one. That perk is given way much more power then it actually has for campers
0 -
I agree. I’ve been doing a blight win streak on my stream the last couple days. I’ll take a break to play a game of ghostie, pig, trapper, etc. and it is soooo much harder to pull off more than a 2k. Gens seem to fly.
0 -
Let me tell you something about horror & this game
0 -
I think you didn't really understood what I said. I said it's to strong but the point of my post was to talk about that as it is right now it is part of the balance since bhvr did nothing against it for so long.
If we would pick up your idea wich I want to point out isn't a bad one we certainly would lessen the effectiveness of tunneling but then the problem I mentioned would arise
0 -
I have to take issue with the idea that killers have no agency so they have to camp and tunnel for kills. If that's the case one of two things is happening you either got a bad map with terrible RNG which does happen and that sucks when you get suffo pit with 6 jungle gyms that all connect perfectly and the survivors know how to run them and you have a bad time.
But much more often I think is a second scenario where killers just don't go in with any sort of plan whatsoever and don't react to the map or the survivors builds in any way. A lot of killer will just slap on eruption/corrupt/call of brine/pain res because they know they're good perks but not really plan around them, like that build is strong because it's good at 3 genning which is more powerful than it's ever been right now. But killers will just go around kicking any gen they see and kinda not plan a 3 gen and whatever gens get done get done cuz they're not really paying attention then lose be like "what are these are the strongest perks and I still only 1k'd game must be impossible for killers". When like no they're just not playing smart and not using the build effectively.
Camping you say is a bad call most of the time so I'll just talk about tunneling real fast and is tunneling effective? Yes like it is an absolute fact tunneling when you can pull it off increases your chances of winning signifgantly. Do you have to do it to win? No not at all, sometimes it's the right call but a lot of the time if you're playing to the strength of your killer and your build you can usually pull off at least a 2k nearly every single time. Granted it's still smart to ping pong hooks between 2 survivors which technically isn't tunneling because nobody is being put on consecutive hooks.
One last thing I'll touch on is do the first 2/3 gens usually go pretty fast? Yeah usually but that doesn't really matter, gens are like a life total in card games it's just a resource and as long as you have 1 left you can still win. I have had so many games with 1 or 2 gens left and had only 2 hooks to that point and then snowball a 4k because they mess up a hook save or I make a good basement play or they get preoccupied with my hexes or I play Pig/Cenobite and they're focused on their side objectives or I start slugging for pressure. DBD is a game of momentum and if a killer is struggling with that outside of the maps like Cowshed and Eyrie then that's user error.
Post edited by BoxGhost on1 -
I do want tunneling and camping nerfed and I 100% agree this would lead to buffs to Killers. Perhaps chase buffs or a similar effect to Dying Light where the gen slowdown disappears once a survivor is killed?
0 -
I don't think something being left in the game, whether by negligence or because it's on the backburner, mechanically means the game is balanced around that. By that logic, everything untouched is by default currently balanced in this game... even the full BNP lobbies, COH + strongest medkits and addons, best addons/perks Nurse & Blight, biased maps, everything is already being balanced if not touched by the devs.
So, my opinion on this is that your argument is sound (if tunneling was completely removed as a possible strategy, like it became physically impossible to hook the same person twice, then there would need to be serious buffs to killer) but your logic is flawed.
Also, I'd much, much rather see reworks and QoL to individual killers than overall buffs that would not adress each killer's issues.
(Am I saying this after a few games of watching my zombies consistently go and hug each other into a corner ? Maybe...)
0 -
What you described about the perks is definitely happening very often. Killer hear build x is good and use it without knowing why and how it's good.
On you last point about gens. It's true that the game is only lost when it's over and I also won games where only one Gen was left. But and that is solely my view on this when I win those games I do it because they screw up most of the time not because I did good or I pulled a good move.
And I don't think it has to be that way. If tunneling and camping would not be as good as they are it we would not need the survivor to be so effective and gens going so fast. For me it's also a psychological component. Sure for a seasoned veteran with 1k or even just 500 hrs it's not a big deal they know there killer they know the map they have no problem to 4k a game where three gens pop on first hook but I think for the average player it's a bit much.
In the end its over half the survivors objective. If a killer would have 6 hooks by the time hthe first gen pops that would be massive amount of stress for them too
0 -
I am 200% with you when it comes to killer specific buffs rather then general killer buffs
1 -
Happens in every game - not just DBD.
Always cringe - Always.
I care as much about their words as I do about people that can't tech throws, block low for sweeps, etc in fighting games and then spam messages about cheap tactics.
Fortunately, there is a subset of players that voice their opinions/concerns in a sensible matter - the devs are always trying to make the game better for both sides.
0 -
Tunneling is way too powerful I was just super tunneled by legion and he had full chase built my first chase was good though and 2 gens got done. 3rd got done in second chase which I could last bit longer but I looped him bad side of the map so that my team would do gens. Last chase I brought him as far away from gens 4th gen got done and 5th they got halfway done when I died. But as 3vs1 is so killer sided he easily regressed that gen and started to get fast downs and tunneled another out survivors were not able to keep up and he got 4K.
0 -
But we can't deny that camping and tunneling are not good for the game health
0 -
We should incentivize going for fresh hooks more.
Give a basekit BBQ aura whenever you hook a Survivor different from the last. Likewise, give a mini-PGTW. Make it 15%. Give the Killer 10% Haste until a chase starts. Now you know where to go and you have reason to go there.
It will be interesting to see if people tunnel less or tunnel more/the same. I'm of the opinion that they'll probably not tunnel less and that we need to use the stick, not the carrot, but maybe we start out with this?
0 -
The majority of PvP games do this.
You need a playerbase, after all.
1 -
And I don't talk about changing any rules I talk about seeing what is not good fo a game and act accordingly. Would you say the same if it would be totally Okey from a rule stand point for survivor to hide without trying to do gens and just let the killer run around finding no one
0 -
Correct, however Devs will buff Killers up to match 60% kill rate.
Beside, I dont think any change will force you to single hook everyone before 2nd hook one of them, then have to 2nd hook everyone before last hook one of them. You can technically just chase 2 of them, even with DS basekit. The first kill would be the 5th hook.
0 -
That's a fact. It's also a fact that there are time where it is the right call to camp or tunnel.
There is always the right time to camp & tunnel.
- If you manage to early down, tunnel & camp them will leave other survivors dont have time to complete 5 Gens.
- If you down them later, tunnel & camp them will give you 50/50 chance between survivors complete 5 Gens and escape, or attempt to unhook and you can get free hits.
- If you down them in end game, tunnel & camp to secure a kill.
0 -
Yea general Killer buffs won't work... Look at the game now
But I think if they did something different it'll work a lot better
But then again I don't have any experience in the game right now so I have no idea what happens in game (other then reading what other people say)
0 -
But and here starts the stuff many people don't want to hear. But that would mean either buffs to killer or nerfs to survivor.
First off: Is that true?
I know the argument gets trotted out frequently that 'killers can't win if they don't camp/tunnel', but the problem with that is that killer skill levels are also a factor, and so is the skill based matchmaking. If you're employing these techniques as crutches and they prop up your MMR, why wouldn't you end up playing against survivors that are above your appropriate skill level?
And secondly: Consider the inverse as well. If killers want to keep camping/tunnelling, survivors will need a hefty buff or killers need nerfs elsewhere.
The problem with camping/tunnelling is that it creates entirely different balancing plateaus. We can either balance for 'no camp/tunnel' or 'camp/tunnel', but not both. Same issue arises with, for example, Brand New Part, which is why I think it needs to be deleted.
2 -
Here is my idea I've been bringing up here in the forums for quite a while:
I think if tunneling were punished it would be enough to stop most players. By punished, I mean that if you hook the same person twice in a row to kill them, and there are other players still in game and alive, you get a -25% blood fee, that will be paid to the survivor you hooked twice in a row. If you kill one survivor by hooking them three times straight, you get a -50% fee, which again will be paid to the survivor you killed by tunneling. I think both of these should have a time limit to be considered tunneling and to prevent the survivors that have been hooked from trying to get in the way with a body block. Let's say one or two minutes. However long it would take to heal with self care and do one quarter of a gen seems reasonable.
Also, a player that is tunneled by those definitions will have a guaranteed safety pip, no more -1 simply because the killer is greedy.
Make the killers that refuse to play fair pay for it, and then at least some of them will think twice about ruining one player's game just to gain a huge advantage. Those that don't, well this will fix two of the most important issues that tunneling causes. Losing pips unfairly and not gaining any blood for your time in the match.
For my idea Moris would also have to count as hooking, but I don't think bleeding out would, especially since it would well outside the timer I mentioned.
0 -
I think you need to be very careful with stuff like that. I would not want a 25% bloodpoint lose and I imagine I'm not alone with that. So if we say that's how it is every survivor under the sun would know the killer don't want to lose that much points so you would need to deal with a very annoying survivor trying to block you and waste time hitting them
1 -
The punishment needs to be hefty or it would just be shrugged off by most killers. It would also need to be obvious to the killer to avoid accidentally incurring it. A timer next to the player icon or something.
Another thing I forgot to mention is to throw the entire idea out during EGC. If you are getting hooked two or three times in a row during EGC that is not tunneling.
0 -
Doesn't change my point.
I would have to waste time hitting a survivor up to three times with DH that trys to block me and I can't even hook him sounds kinda bad and let's be honest that's 200% what would happen cause of course survivor would try to use it to get every weapon swipe out of the killer they can
0 -
Or we people could just accept that being a valid and not forbidden tactic doesn't change the fact that it isn't good for the game. If bhvr would tomorrow decide to make it a valid allowed tactic to block a survivor in a corner all game would it make that a good thing for the game?
0 -
I think you are the one that missed the point. You are afraid of the fee. That's the point of the fee! You don't want to incur the fee, so don't tunnel. Don't camp, or return to the hook, and you are unlikely to even see the unhooked survivor again until you have downed and hooked someone else or their tunnel timer has run out.
You did make me think of something else though. In the case of only two survivors left the punishment would have to be shut off as well. Don't want this idea to force killers to slug in the two survivor situation.
0 -
Okey now you confuse me. Don't camp OK don't tunnel OK. Don't come to the hook? That's stupid it's not camping nor tunneling to keep an eye on the hook to get the unhooker for a chase but guess what would happen then
0 -
I used the word toxic exactly once and then to describe 5 Gen face camping wich is probably the most unfun not playing the game thing you can do so don't you dare putting words in my mouth.
I don't sit here aww that's toxic stop it. I say it's not good for the games health and I'm not alone with that opinion. And guess what the devs also don't think it's good for the game and they are searching for a good solution so I think discussing this here is fair enough especially since I did this post to shed light in the fact it's not as simple as just making it impossible or making it a punishable offense because that is what the people want that just scream that's toxic around so go back under your bridge my friend
0 -
Calling you a troll for putting words into my mouth to throw me into a pile is fair I think.
And I never said the don't want it to ever happen but they want it to happen less because they see its not good for the community.
These guys aren't some gods that can't be wrong they make the game they should sculpt it how they see fit but they also should here what there community has to say that's how stuff like that works because if you screw to much with your community you end up with a game exactly how you vision it but no players to play it it would not be the first dev team to find it out the hard way. And I actually think they to a semi good job even tho I there is space to improve
0 -
That's the thing your punishing all forms of Camping and Tunneling regardless of it being done as a normal strategy or as a Toxic play. You say that in End Game but that's not the only time it's valid and ok to camp and tunnel.
BHVR has said they are valid strats and they don't want to do anything that would punish those who use them correctly along with those who use them in "toxic" ways.
1 -
Im not against camping and tunneling but it's ironic you say this whenever killers complain way more than survivors and ask for nerfs all the time, I guess you'll show the same energy with those people right?
0 -
I like how you say force killers to play fair when bhvr has already said camping and tunneling is fair.
0 -
You know what is funny? When I did this post I thought I would need to defend my opinion that killers would need buffs if camping and tunneling is fixed because that's what I advocate for.
I didn't think I need to argue with killer that don't want to lose a uninteractiv playstyle even when I want buffs for us killers to have a great time actually playing the game but no I sit here and get called a child by someone who thinks the best thing in gaming history is to stand in front of a survivor hanging on a hook waiting for a bar to get empty just to do it again
0 -
It can be rough, but as we know, everyone has their own way of describing this stuff and each scenario happens for a reason. Don't discourage them directly, but make it to where the killer doesn't really need to do so in order to get kills and the such.
1 -
It's not emotions it's a fact that you can't deny that camping is less interactive and less fun then chasing. Show me how this is based on emotions when one play literally just hangs there and can do nothing. How could that be as fun as having a chase or hide or do anything else.
0 -
My opinion is, who cares what the other team likes? Its a competition. Theres a winner and a loser side. I call tunneling counting, also known as paying attention. You'll never be able to hook a decent team 3x each, and thats the point of inventing make believe rules. They want to win. They believe they are entitled to a win every match or its not fun, boring, OP or needs nerfed. Any and anything that has ever caused someone to lose a match, has posts begging for nerfs. I quit playing for years. Probably back when they destroyed Ruin. And its the same stuff on this forum years later , people crying about getting tunneled, camped and slugged. This killer is OP, this perk is OP. Wah. Do these people try to make up rules in shooters? Like you cant shoot me in the head? Its ridiculous. The nerfs need to stop. Buff other things. I quit playing for years Because every killer and every perk has been reworked or nerfed.
0 -
they only ruined ruin a handful of months ago. not years.
0 -
tunneling is near 100% required against better survivors, and also really easily countered by them
for new and/or bad players, tunneling is way too effective, and near impossible to counter
and for the average player it can be game changing, and likely a 50/50 whether its effective or countered
tunneling is a bandaid fix for core issues with the game. its not fun for either side, but the devs dont want to balance the game so its either here to stay or will be removed without the devs even attempting to fix or understand the reasons tunneling is necessary and effective
the game needs to be in a much better state to even consider removing tunneling
0 -
Thats a lie. Or you just dont know what youre talking about. Leatherface and 2of his 3 perks were nerfed to hell. You no longer lose your item from franklin's demise, no bloodpoints from BBQ &chili ,knockout is still same. And that was over 2 years ago. All his add ons were rendered useless, and a cooldown on his chainsaw. Hillbilly, nurse, Doctor, clown. Myers, freddy, pig. Hag. Spirit (multiple nerfs). Countless killer perks nefed. But infinite rage quitting is still a thing. Because a Rage quit penalty wasnt "fair", so they removed it.
0 -
ok, i think you need to apply your initial comment to yourself. Ruin was one of the most popular killer perks until the meta shakeup a few months ago. It is only after the ruin nerf after the meta shakeup that caused ruins pick rate to drop as at THAT time it became "ruined"
Ruin is also a HAG perk so why your rambling about other killers that have nothing to do with ruin is beyond me.
You also do lose items with franklins demise what are you even talking about? BBQ and chili change was not 2 years ago. You either have no concept of time or need to chill on the 420
0 -
Ok so you really dont know what youre talking about. You USED to drop item, and lose it. If you didnt pick it back up. Like if you got smacked Tbagging at exit, you just lost your flashlight. They changed it OVER two years ago so you lose charges over time. Read the title of this post. You see anything about ruin? I mentioned ruin Because it was around that time that they destroyed it. Which was around March of 2020.When they were nerfing every killer and good perk. Thats when i stopped playing. Not months ago. I know it was at that time Because i looked up my old posts talking about it. And i didnt play the game again until a couple weeks ago. I dont know or care when they removed blood points from BBQ and chili. I only noticed it when i returned.
0 -
The go-to strategy for tournament-level Killers is to tunnel, or to do a slight variation of tunneling where they pick two survivors and alternate between them until one of them dies (To avoid perks like OTR and to avoid losing too much time if they lose the one chosen survivor). So yes, I'd say it's quite necessary against survivors at your skill level.
0 -
Before you try to tell me they didn't nerf ruin years ago.
0 -
So how does it feel to not know what you are talking about? That post is a year old. Talking about a nerf 2 years before. Not months ago.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
I think they were talking about the Meta shake up where they totally ruined Ruin....the first time they "ruined" Ruin it was still viable and in a decent place after players saw it was still good....but now it's trash level.
0 -
We will probably find people who find it fun to watch paint dry and watch the grass grow. Doesn't make it a objectively fun activity and also it's not a single player game it's multi-player should be fun for everyone involved cause when it's good and fair design even losing is fun
0 -
Uff and you claim yourself to be an adult when acting this childish?
And argumenting with an personal emotional/anecdotal response when you on the other hand condemn others for it?
0 -
Buddy i have bad news for you, that was a reowrk and the perk still had its uses.
Really destroyed was it a few months ago when they cut it's regression in half and made it deactivate after the first survivor death in a match.
You have been away for two years and nobody calls the change two years ago even a nerf anymore. It was still strong and one of the most used killer perks until summer this year, even moreso with the introduction of undying.
Your much presented info is way outdated for any fruitful discussion.
1
