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Killer v Survivor in terms of difficulty.
I just watched a Scott Jund video where he talked about what role is easier, where he concluded that killer is easier at the moment, I disagree with this however, and that's really because of one reason:
It's Dead By Daylight.
The game is just too random, sometimes you can get the sweatiest players known to man, sometimes you face a 12 year old playing on switch with one side of their headphones not working. Combine this with the wide array of killers with different skill ceilings/floors, and you just can't say one side is harder. Tell me with a straight face that looping a Sadako on the game for 2 minutes is harder that playing as that Sadako. You can say that as a whole, most killers are easy to play if you stack gen regression and hardcore tunnel, but you can flip this on it's head by playing in a SWF and just having 2 players bring toolboxes, Built to Last, and Prove Thyself while sticking to gens like flea's while one player Shift W's to every pallet and pre-drops it.
Comments
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It's all relative. I'm more inclined to agree with Scott, but a lot of it comes down to your experience level and skill level at the respective roles. Just to address your example with Sadako: people like to cite how easy it is to run M1 killers for multiple minutes, yet survivors can't seem to do it with any regularity.
It's important to remember that matchmaking gets progressively harder for players up to a point, at which point there are no more difficult games to be had or better opponents to face. For a killer with 0-2000 hours, yeah, SWF is probably a thing for them and M1 killers suck to play at times. For someone with 4000+ hours? SWF isn't even something that player is going to think about in the lobby or during the game because it makes zero difference to them in terms of outcome. Like I said above, it's all relative. DbD has been out for 6+ years. There are going to be a huge range of experience levels with differing opinions on what constitutes difficult and what doesn't.
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Killer is more work but less difficult to win. Survivor is less but much more difficult to win. Killers seem to confuse the concepts of work and difficulty. Killer is like having to manually mow a football field. It takes a long time and a lot of work but it’s an easy task. You will not fail to mow the football field. A killer has to put in the work to find and kill the survivors but he will most likely get a 3-4k.
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Killer has always been easier for the ones willing to bring the strongest perks. I remember the stomping killers did with the various versions of Ruin, and how it was used by players who were more than capable of killing everyone even without stacked slowdowns. Even the worst skilled killers will kill if given enough time. This is probably why 3 gen stacked slowdown is so popular and is being used by players who would do well without them. It is their "insurance" and it makes for long and soul-crushing games that are not reflections of skill.
I enjoy the shorter matches of high intensity.
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Scott clearly says in that video that he thinks killer is easier than solo q not survivor overall and I can't phantom how can ANYONE disagree with that
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I’m not sure why you are criticizing people who stack slowdowns. Killers don’t use those as “insurance”; those perks are needed to do well against experienced survivors. The killer also can’t tell the skill level of the group right away (a point that Scott gets completely wrong) so they have to prepare for the worst.
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You're grossly oversimplifying here, you're just not gonna win with Sadako against a good SWF on Badham with strong perks and items, doesn't matter what perks or add-ons you bring.
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You're talking about swf though, whereas Scott is talking about killer vs solo in his video that you linked
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Out of all the people, you bring a Scott Jund discussion to the table.Killer is really easy if you're experience against low grade survivors oh right also if you have a top of the line PC of course it's easy but,I play on PS4 with a controller.
Let me say this instead if you grew up playing PC then you will be familiar with the controls.In case I'm versed in my controls but I'm also going against PC player's who plays with higher sensitivity and quicker responses.With that being if you a Michael Myers and play against hard core survivors.They'll get 3 gens done before you even get your first down in tier and that's with Deadlock, dying light, thanatophobia.Those perks don't even matter when it comes to high caliber player's.
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Killer is easier but far more stressful, SWF is easy mode and solo survivor is by far the hardest role in DBD.
Because the game is RNG based matches can sometimes favour killer more than survivor etc. But most maps are survivor sided in my opinion but the game has recently become a bit killer sided due to the current gen control meta and nerfs (mostly justified) to the survivor meta
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If to make your example you have to pick one of the weaker killers and place them against the strongest possible opponents, then yeah, generally killers have an easier time than survivors. It's not true 100% of the time, but generally speaking it is.
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It's really your definition. In terms of skill survivor has a higher skill ceiling than killers. Blight in combination with everything killer related has a higher skill ceiling, since his kit in this game has no ceiling. In terms of stress and effort, killer takes the cake. In terms of getting a win in solo vs killer environment survivor by far. So many things go into it though, if you are playing bubba with 0-1 gen regression perks, survivors probably shouldn't be losing unless someone on the team is hard waying everyone else down.
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As killer you only depend on yourself. As a survivor other people's bs can screw you over. Of course killer is easier.
Also contrary to other people, I play killer to destress, really have no idea why so many people find it stressful.
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Bc to some ppl hearing 2 to 3 gen popping back to back can be stressful since it makes them realize the time crunch they really are in. Also as a killer, you can feel every little mistake you make since you are by yourself and have no one else to rely on. One simple miss hit can mean that chase lasts another min and that's another gen lost. Also unlike survivor if you get stomped as a killer you can have 4 really toxic ppl in chat laughing and pointing at you, telling you bad at the game, and t-bagging you at the exit gate. At the end of the day, the killer may be the easier role but it is the most stressful bc you are by yourself and are under more time crunch then the survivors.
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Compared to Solo Q, getting your Doctorate is easy 💀
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One can't generalize difficulty for one side or the other
Killers- Have to be aware of 4 Survivors, 7 Gens and the map... up to 16 perks
Solo queue Survivors- Have to be aware of 3 Survivors, the Killer, 7 Gens and the map... up to 16 perks
SWF Survivors- Have to be aware of the Killer, 7 Gens and the map... and only the Killers perks
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It depends.
Killer is, always was and it will always be harder to learn. You have to learn how to run tiles, to mindgame loops, to apply pressure, to make decisions, to know when a certain strategy will help you to win or just throw the game, to counter every survivor perk, to keep track of their perks and itens, and how to use every killer power, you will always have to learn a new one when playing a new killer.
Even when you have already learned, every game you have WAY more to pay atention to. You have to keep track of where all 4 survivors are, what itens they have, what perks all of them have (that's up to 16 perks to figure out and remember), how much time you have until a gen pops, what gens you need to prioritize, and you have to make decisions about where to go, who to chase, when to continue and when to stop all the time. All of this while trying to prevent your time from running out and being bombarded with a bunch of annoying sound warnings (while trying to pay atention to your surroundings and its sounds), which makes the game more stressful for you.
On the brightside, however, if a killer is against a weak solo team, some cheap tactics can bring you the victory quite easily. It's easier to tunnel a survivor out of the game now than it has been in years. If you're against a strong team, however, this will not work so easily and maybackfire.
As a survivor, you definitively has way less stuff to pay atention to and choices to make. You only need to know what perks the killer has. Knowing an ally has Prove Thyself, Leader, Bottany Knowledge or Boon: Exponential can be helpful in some situations, sure, but it isn't really necessary. Besides, when an ally has a perk you benefit from the information is either handed to you (Prove Thyself) or never shows up until its used anyway (Unbreakable, Deliverance), so you don't even have to bother paying atention to it. That's completely different than actually having to keep track of up to 16 perks you'll have to COUNTER. You need to do that with only 4.
You must know how to loop and where the best loops with remaining pallets are located. Some maps are harder due to many unsafe loops, others are really easy on that regard, like Cowshed and the Game. In that case, the map layout is in your favor and the killer is the one who's going to need to get creative and mindgame you out of your safety.
You also have to be careful and keep the remaining gens spread apart, and know when a teammate is going to rescue or not to know if you should rescue or do gens... there are a few other things you should pay atention to, but it really isn't that much in comparison to what killers must deal with. Most of the time, you will be paying atention on your on positioning and the killer's, AND you will always have some time to cool your head, either on the hook or the gen. You don't have to rush all the time like the killer does.
So, with all of that, why can't we say killer is always harder? Because as a solo survivor, sometimes it doesn't matter how well you play, your teammates will still ruin the game for you.
As a solo survivor, your side's efficiency in play is not just up to you, it's out of your control. You may be extremely helpful, do most gens by yourself, rescue a lot, even take hits for survivors being chased, but if one teammate is really bad at chases and the killer decides to tunnel them, even the best sabo/flashlight user can't protect them for long. They will go down, they will get sacrificed (maybe even kill themselves or DC) and you will have to play the rest of the game at a possibly massive disavantage.
So, to sum it up: the killer is harder to play right, to play optimally. Survivor is easier on that regard, but will often still be harder to win due to how your teammates play.
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I'm generalizing all survivors here because all killers are also being generalized, sure we can draw lines in the sand all day to make massive statements like "killer/survivor OP" but at the end of the day, looking at both roles from an objective standpoint, the amount of RNG going into this makes these discussion completely redundant.
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But by that logic I can flip this around and say that you choosing a situation like a killer with the best gen control perks vs an uncoordinated solo queue team is a strawman, there's obvious nuance here.
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It’s the same dude who said Lightborn was OP. Whatever it takes to get views.
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He's clearly not been getting them from you if you actually believe he thinks that.
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Take a group of video game players who have never played DBD, have them do the tutorials, and then have them play the game - killer will win the majority of matches. Potentially vast majority.
Give a player ten hours on each side, they'll probably have a pretty good idea of killer strategy, as survivor there will still be a lot of guess work.
Or look at the fact that there are lots of people on this forum and elsewhere who talk about playing "nice" as the killer so the game is competitive.
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From hardest to easiest:
SoloQ>Killer>SWF.
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A couple of reasons. The first is, obviously, that the entire time you're playing, there's no downtime. It's hard to think of any other game (multiplayer or not) where you can't stop to catch your breath and assess what's going on for even a few seconds. There's no real period in the Killer gameplay loop that consists of just doing without having to think--even in the Hold W situation, you're still required to pay attention to surroundings and survivor position (never mind all the various notifications that might come up).
So--every match is done without pause, that's a level of intensity that's more stressful.
Everything resting on you tends to lead to a more stressful experience for most, just because all failure is therefore your fault. And see above about how there's no time to catch your breath? Failure in a chase doesn't give you chance to reset and think; you're not a Survivor sitting on the ground or hook and waiting for a rescue. Lack of breathing space can really compound it when things are going badly.
And then there's just the obvious: there are four people on the other team. The odds that any one of the other players in the game is going to start being toxic towards you shoots way up.
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Perhaps.. that is why scott thinks flashlights are the weakest item, because he thinks lightborn is op /s
I hate sentiments like this because I feel like it assumes that the person who is agreeing with the content creator is only agreeing because they said it and often times it's used as an excuse to dismiss opinions of others just because they shared that opinion with X content creator. I've also seen people, not necessarily you, call others sheep for having the same opinions, as if they couldn't have ever formed that opinion themselves.
Content creators aren't always right or immune from criticism, don't get me wrong, and I do agree with Scott with a lot of things. I disagree with him too, and Otz, and others - just as I do on the forum or reddit, and it's good to hear different perspectives even if you don't agree with them. This game is pretty subjective.
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This completely ignores SoloQ.
At least with killer, I feel like I can actually do something, and that I have some power to turn the tides in my favor even if I do not have the advantage. Even against some top tier SWFs, I often lose because of my mistakes adding up over time and less of what the other side brings, with minor exceptions. Most of the time in SoloQ, my soul just evaporate as I go into "there is no way I am escaping any of my matches".
With SoloQ, being forced to play by myself in a team based game with no communication is among the worst experience, especially when one person is licking paint off the wall of shack, another teammate is Sprint Bursting into a tree and getting a concussion while in chase, Im the only one doing generators, and the only other teammate thinks it's a good idea to literally Self-Care in the corner of the map against Sloppy Butcher.
I know a lot of people like to pretend that they face 4-man SWFs every match and BNPs are brought in literally every game but the harsh reality of DBD is that the randomness of DBD is neither for or against a specific side. Killer can have bad RNG, SoloQ can have bad matchmaking, and SWF can still deal with insane players that destroy them.
I mean literally look at the generator kicking meta we are in, it mostly benefits going against SoloQ and split SWFs (aka, not 4-man SWFs) because that is the primary demographic of the survivor playerbase anyways. There is a reason why everyone despises Eruption and the only people who defend it either play exclusively in 4-man SWFs or only play killer, and I normally hate saying stuff like that but at this point it is true.
All of this being said, Im not going to leave it off with doom and gloom. SoloQ can sometimes bless you with good teammates, and it feels good to have matches like that, like it feels absolutely amazing. I sometimes have SoloQ matches I really enjoy, but as I said before, most, my soul just evaporates.
Overall, if you want my two cents, the game is not sided in anyone's favor, but there are some problematic and/or unfun things on both sides regardless of such, but from a general gameplay perspective, it is not sided towards either side. And since it is not favored for anyone, there is no "easier role" in a sense. You can have stressful matches of survivor (SoloQ), SWF, and as killer, it just happens sometimes. I think the more subjective stance to take is "what is the more unfun role", which would depend on who you ask, for me, SoloQ is the most unfun thing ever.
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I play survivor and killer equally. I don't want Eruption changed, just FYI because someone stated that I must want it changed, due to my group associations.
Survivor with competent friends, is easiest. There are a few moments of stress or work but most of the game the Killer has his hands full trying to control three other people who are either in verbal contact or at the least know what they will mostly do, and not do at any given time.
Solo play is so different, no one does helpful things. They often deliberately sabotage the match, accidently throw the match, or just don't know what to do.
Killer is constant work. As a survivor I might get mad at some perk they have that counters something, or annoyed with a cascading failure on my part, but they're still working, constantly for their wins.
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Assuming most of the players are soloQ and i lose like 90% of my soloQs im gonna say killer is easier... I run meme builds and 4k without any problem. Killer has lost its appeal and it has become way easier the only real enjoyment i get is against SWFs where you sure risk losing but it feels rewarding to win. However if we think out of a killer vs SWF perspective i dont think killer is that much easier really...
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Killer was only stressful when SBMM was new and actually matched sweaty killers with opponents on their level. These days you can camp and tunnel to your heart's content since the low soft caps will never actually consistently match you with good players regardless of how much you win.
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Well that is a matter of opinion I guess as many people find killer pretty stressful and I find survivor more relaxing as you don't really get any down time as killer. I don't think SBMM is really present most of the time and the game will prioritise faster games than more accurate matchmaking
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Assuming SWF (solo is another thing):
At lower MMRs? Killer is much easier. It's a role that doesn't require coordination and it's objectives are a bit more intuitive.
Intermediate MMR? I'd say that are about the same, but difficult in different ways.
High MMR? I'd say that survivor is a bit easier. Watching Otz doing his HC survivor series was really illuminating regarding how hard a coordinated group can utterly humiliate even a decent killer.
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I only play SoloQ and I survive maybe 50%. I’ve played a few groups. It’s definitely easier. I’d say with the killers ability to tunnel and camp, especially when the game isn’t going their way, they have it easier. If I go up against Bubba in SoloQ I’m pretty much screwed.
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Is that person a dev? I'm not familiar with names or anything. If a dev says it then yeah, that's how you'll know.
Beyond that, I play solo q mostly, over halfway to p100 and it's hit or miss. Most games are a loss lately. I have people leaving on first hook, dcing and giving up afk if they get hooked once and yep, we lose. This seems to be happening in my games more and more lately.
When people stay though, it's 50/50 win rate I'd say.
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Thank you for seeing the nuance in this discussion, I'm about ready to ditch the forums, I never realized how little people thought about the other side in asymmetrical games.
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They're a content creator, yeah I don't know if I'm just lucky or what, but I don't lose nearly as often as other people here(Or I just don't notice, I play 50/50 but I'm probably biased towards killer.)
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When you win though, (if you play solo) how often do you get 3+ people out (as in team win), how many times do you get a draw and how many times when you survive by yourself it's through hatch or through exit gates?
You are still looking it at it through killer lens, because you only account for yourself. But the reality of it would be how commonly do survivors win? Personally I wouldn't mind it if they implemented team MMR because then it would at least discourage selfish play among survivors and we could actually address the teamplay part of solo survivor.
I am not saying killer doesn't have bullshit to deal with (that's why there are a bunch of banned perks in competetive) but we can't keep hiding the reality of survivor's team winrate behind SWF. And as the game is seemingly going through a meta that requires teamplay from survivors to counter killer strats, I would expect for the devs to do something to incentivize survivors to play in a more team-like manner by not calling it a win when only one survives.
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I disagree with his take. If the survivors are even semi decent killer is significantly harder and more skill demanding. At low mmr levels of skill is the only time I’d say killer is easier. However we don’t determine objectivity by bad players or even the average match, we determine it by good vs good. In other words, saying saying dbd is easier for killer and saying that it’s easier for killer in the “average” match are two completely different statements. In “most” matches it’s easier for killer but “objectively”, which is decided by good vs good, the game is very much easier for survivor.
Post edited by Blueberry on0 -
As I've said, 'Survivor' isn't a side.
SWF and Solo can't really be compared.
I can melt a group of survivors. Get those same survivors into voicecoms and let them coordinate perks, offerings, saves and gens and they'll give me trouble.
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It really depends on a lot of factors and you can't really determine which side is stronger, it depends on teammates, killer choice , perk builds, and skill.
There are a lot of bad players at the game and people who are just new and don't know any better, this game can never be perfectly balanced for all sides and everyone be happy about it, an example is the QOL change killers received had some survivors crying they were too OP even though it's really not, those people just don't play the game enough or they aren't as skilled as the people they're faced with, then you have some killers crying still about DH and COH even though they were both nerfed and are both mediocre at best now. You never can please everyone and some people are gonna struggle with certain killers/survivors more than others because nobody plays the exact same way.
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Yes, this is a more balanced way to put it (streamers opinion). And said in a way less prone to ruffle feathers.
Streamers are only experienced players. Their experience of the game is anecdotal and most suffer from a variant of the Dunning-Kruger effect : they tend to have trouble factoring their own "extra-ordinary" competence in their analysis, which tend to lead to flawed conclusions.
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I'm a survivor main with about 2,700 hrs playing. Killer is far harder I think. You have to work hard for points and pips and be part of the action 100% of the time. In lower grades for survivors, it doesn't take much to pip, all away from the action. Clean some totems, do a gen, get a save and you've pipped. Did bad in a match? You're on to the next one. Killer has a bad match, they have to wait out the exit gate teabag dance.
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At high mmr good vs good it’s mostly swf. Even in a full solo if the dice rng rolls well and you get good teammates it’s still easier for survivor. Your chance of good dice rolls on teammates also gets significantly higher as you go up in mmr. The game is currently balanced for solo, not swf, so even lumping them together doesn’t really change the point for what we’re talking about.
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Eh...I'd hesitate on that. I'm not sure if I'm high MMR, but I do face a few forum folks and known streamers on my better killers. I do pretty decently versus most solo groups or duos. SWFs give me all kinds of trouble, simply because of how they always know where I am and which gens are being worked on.
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