The Knight, What Went Wrong?

Three?

One asking for tips, one outlining my experiences after substantially more time, and one giving feedback on the killer himself in relation to other recent killers.

Why?

Haha, I try not to - but the other thread I had up didn't really fit well with what I wanted to say here.

If you're good though, I'll make a 4th tomorrow, just for you :)

It's not even 'most efficient'.

It would work if the summons could actually catch someone, or came out faster/activated faster, or he had some other aspect to his kit.

Both, honestly, but more design.

Cenobite - incredibly thematically true to the films (especially once the voicing was back in). Chains are a bit tough to land, but powerful when combined with the Box. The Box is one of the most creative killer mechanics I've seen.

He needs a bit of love, but he's not weak.

Artist - brilliant killer. Some folks don't like her, I know, but I find her incredibly nuanced and a ton of fun to both face and play as. About the only area she loses points is her crap addons.

Onryo - Okay visuals. Awful sound effect on striking, and I don't like her 'projectile'. Otherwise, her kit is a mess and she's really weak on top of it. It felt like she was a buggy beta version of Dredge. Her numbers are being buoyed by one or two very gimmicky builds, much like Myers.

I've spoken at length about Sadako in multiple threads. But in a nutshell:

• Only viable with one or two extremely unfun gimmick builds that could be better called 'haha everyone depips'.
• Janky teleporting that is extremely reliant on RNG.
• So small that it's impossible to see anything on grassy maps unless you set the game to Low and gives you motion sickness.
• Weak power that's almost useless in chase unless you equip mandatory addons.
• Mandatory brown addons to make her feel even slightly decent.
• Completely incompatible with the current Hold W then use Ex perk meta.

Not saying she's the worst killer ever made (that's probably Trapper) or even the worst recent killer (that goes to Knight). But she still sucks.

And yes, some people might be okay with a killer that sucks, because they like the visuals or being a snowflake, but some people like Adam Sandler movies, and that doesn't mean Adam Sandler movies aren't terrible.

Absolutely, yes.

It's not about the complexity of the numbers. The numbers are easy to work out, and the game basically handholds you with 'this is the breaker guy, this is the chase guy, this is the patrol guy'.

What makes Trapper a lot more complex to play is that you need to know which traps are worth retrieving at any point in time, where to put them on every map, which also depends on tiles and which gens are done, and then how to chase people into them.

Knight's entire playstyle could probably be written as a single If/Then/Else statement.

Nobody is saying that Knight is too complex. He's not complex at all - and that's the problem.

Yes, a killer that can't hook, down and chase is going to be a bad killer, because *that's literally what a killer does*. It's like saying 'oh, this vacuum cleaner you bought doesn't clean, but we're not taking it back because it's great for holding up your wobbly table'.

Do you stream? Because I'd love to see the survivors you're facing or if you're just doing something vastly different to me.

• You send the Carni off to kick a gen. This does nothing, because survivors will immediately be back on it. So you save it for a pallet break. Only now, you're an M1 killer until Meg drops a pallet. Yawn.
• You send Jailor off to patrol gens. He doesn't last long, and survivors can just avoid him with the massive, visible ring. And you're an M1 until he's done. Your power, once again, has done literally nothing but stall the game out a few seconds.
• I don't think your strawman here is representative of either me or literally anyone I've seen trying to play Knight.
• Pincer method doesn't work unless the survivor is silly and tries to loop you around a large structure and continues to do so while being pursued. A savvy survivor just runs off the second he hears the summon start, and by the time you've caught up you needn't have bothered.
• Yes, maps with unsafe locations are fantastic, aren't they? Tell me, where exactly do you push someone to on Cowshed, Mother's Dwelling, Badham and Eyrie?

Sure, some people can do well as Knight. But those people can also do as well, and probably better, on literally any other killer in the game.

• The maps where Sadako is decent are maps where almost all killers are decent. It's less Sadako being good as the map being bad.
• GF has substantially better chase, because you get a free approach (why does Sadako need a lullaby again?) and, if you're playing right, often an instant down. That's massive.
• No, some things objectively suck. Just because some odd people enjoy them doesn't mean they don't suck (see again, my Adam Sandler Movies analogy).

Shrug. I'm not going to pretend to like something or think it's good because other people do, or because 'negativity'. Only giving positive feedback is seldom productive. We'd have to see what the kill rates look like next time BHVR gives us the stats, but I'd be amazed if Knight isn't really far down.

Without actually seeing any of your games, I wouldn't know. It could be a variety of things.

Again, I'd have to see his games to know if maybe he's in an odd MMR spot, exaggerating or what have you.

Have been watching some CC videos and I'm astonished at how hard it can be to beat a really solid SWF without a tip top tier killer for even the best killers around.

Thanks! This was actually a really interesting game.

A few things though. Let's dig in and respond to your - well, your response.

*Dusts off old Starcraft 2 Commentator hat*...

• This was one game. I'll have to catch your stream sometime after the holidays to get a better sample size.
• This specific game felt less like Sadako being amazing and more 'if you're good, survivors are running around like headless chickens and your mindgames work, you can do well on any killer'.
• What about this game would have been different, had you, say, been playing, say, Myers? I see maybe 2 moments when a teleport yielded anything useful.
• That crucial fast first down was a combination of a good mindgame from you and that Nea making a silly mistake because she was trying to be fancy.
• Ditto that second Nea with some really dumb plays and then a pointless Dead Hard.
• Third down against that Dwight - he ran right into you while looking behind him. Again - great work on the mindgame, but you weren't even invisible there.
• 4th down, Dwelf. He seems to be completely outclassed here.
• 5th down, they have already lost the game at 4 gens. A ridiculously bad rescue leading to an exchange, what on earth were they thinking?
• 6th down. You mess up and nearly let the Nea escape, chasing shadows. However, this entire section of the map is now basically a wasteland and she has to go miles to find a single pallet. I'm no expert on seeds, but had this been Garden of Joy or Eyrie, you'd have been SOOL here. Nea drops another pallet and rather than playing safe, she stands around. Confusing.

Not going too far into the rest of the game, as you've already won here - they've crumbled and most of their resources are depleted. Rather than trying to get into main building or something, they run out into nowhere and go down.

Postgame:

• One solid Nea, one okay Nea. One newer Dwight and one intermediate Dwight, probably in a SWF judging how the Dwelf's silly altruism basically cost them the game. Hardly the 'max level team' it says on the cover.
• One survivor didn't even have max level perks, and the loadout was clearly a mixture of 'fun' builds and serious builds.
• Double CoH = redundancy. This was not a 'team', this was random.
• Aside from the P100 Nea, they were completely and utterly outclassed here. Not going to make any accusations about MMR tanking, but you'd have smashed them on basically any killer, and much faster on most.
• Your Sadako kit barely helped you here, aside from the aura addon and maybe two moments where a teleport got you a faster chase.
• I like your build idea a lot.
• I'd have been curious to see how this match plays out on Cowshed, or Garden.
• This game demonstrates the big issue of DbD - a lot of games are decided before the match starts where a bunch of randoms get thrown into the meat grinder.