We are in the worst meta since the game excist...
Something really has to change. Right now the game is painfully unfun and it get's worse with every Update/Chapter.
On the survivor side the meta is rush gens while on the killer side it's use nurse or run the same 3 gen kick perks the whole round. And sorry but what is fun about this? You ether stare at a progression bar filling up or you watch the gen kick Animation for the 20th time this round. The one fun thing about dbd is the chase and in both scenarios where ether the gens get finished in 5 minutes or not at all there is almost no chase at all.
We really need a new Objective that is at least a bit bit more fun because trying to "fix" the gen progress didn't work since years
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Same exact point im trying to make in this post i just posted a moment ago! I agree with this fully.
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How are you getting hooks without chasing anyone tell me your secrets.
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A survivor is working on a generator. You approach the generator and kick it. You chase the survivor until they drop a pallet near the gen and kick it. Then you search for other gens with progress. And sadly this stratagie works and what is even more sad it's in most rounds
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I think you forgot the part where you actually down the survivor?
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Well yeah that's happen afterwards when they don't have anything near them anymore
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How do you get the second hit?
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It's the effect of MMR... Kill or Escape
And it's finishing the objective as fast as possible...
Not finishing a Gen then running around the map
Or Hooking a Survivor then staying away long enough for the save and heal to happen (And not chasing another Survivor)
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Yup developers really screwed up with that update, they destroyed the survivor meta which was to counter tunnelling and prolong chases, without that most survivors opt for a gen rushing build. But it was kind of killers moaning which caused the horrid update and now they still moan. And there also isn't really a survivor meta since we don't have many decent perks anymore, killers have a meta and games are boring because they bring the same perks every time even tho devs said they wanted to change the meta for both sides (they only nerfed it for survivors). I'm so sick of eruption, pain res, jolt, call of brine...
Survivors got the last meta destroying update so now it's time killers should get one...
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Oh no, both the killer and the survivor have to work for their wins or they'll lose.
Its almost like there's numerous perks that counter this on the survivor side, I wonder if the people on the survivor side will adapt or just complain every day and be ignorant.
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Right now for me the meta goes as follow:
1/2 Anti-Camp/Tunnel perks
1/2 Gen rush perks
Because the devs increasing gen times while only scratching the surface of the glaring issues with Camping and Tunneling, has only encouraged those who heavily rely on these playstyles to do it even more. Even winning sometimes doesn't feel 'fun' anymore because you feel as though it is a finish a gen for your life or else... time. How is that even fun? It's the same as the boring people who slug at 5 generators, as if all will suddenly pop if they don't. All while having the same 4 slow down perks.
It's insane how longer gen times = Let's play even more scummy and bring all slow down perks to slow them down even more.
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He’s trying to point out flaws in what you’re saying without saying it directly. Having a person solve the problem themselves helps them to understand it better than just telling them the answer directly.
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How about we don't ping pong between I had to suffer no you get to suffer. The last years where very survivor heavy with stuff like old DH and CoH. Wasn't fun für killer now it'd not fun for survivor why don't we aim for a fun game for both sides instead of acting like the other side is some evil force that has to suffer for my sides fun
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I'm saying the idea there's no chase in this game is ridiculous.
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I mean they could've given survivors some decent new perks like they did for killers and actually focused on what we want like stopping tunnelling and camping rather than removing our options to prevent them then it would've been less suffering for survivors as well, so far it's only survivor side suffering with the kill rates to show for it...
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Worst since the game exists? Nah, I prefer this over the time Sprint Burst recharged while running , DS was completely broken (it's original version, before the 2019 rework), loops were so strong a survivor could self-care mid-chase and be safe, 3 toolboxes were almost a garanteed win due to gen speed at the time and killers needed a damn HEX PERK to at least hope to slow the game down.
Honestly, I also prefer the current meta to the previous one were everyone was using DS, Dead Hard, Borrowed Time and Unbreakable/Iron Will on almost every match while killers would use Corrupted Intervention, Ruin, Pop and Tinkerer. At least now we see SOME variety instead of the same perks and tactics every game.
Post edited by Malkhrim on2 -
If you think about this.
To achieve 40% escapes (12 killed / 20 survivors ; which mean 3 matches of 2 escape and 2 matches of 1 escape) mean survivors have to complete 5 Gens 60% of the match.
Increase Gen time would just make survivor use more Gen rush build because if not, the Gens will never be done.
If Gens can not be ever done, means only 1 escape through hatch every match.
If every match guarantee 1 escape, why should survivors do Gen? They can just hide and wait until they're the last one alive to get hatch.
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As far as I am aware, that has been a popular strategy for a while, "just letting all others die to get hatch". Factually its often the approach of the last two survivors, regardless of generator progress.
I think theres potential for extreme debates concerning the optimal individual escape chance, especially if we want to give killers the same win chance as survivors escape chance, for 50/50 fairness.
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I think the worst meta paired with the worse place the game has been in was definitely exhaustion stacking while pallets were on every corner of the maps and jungle gyms having both windows and pallets spawn.
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I disagree this is the worst meta, maybe for survivor, but survivor since the begening was so broken that it means literaly nothing; it's just the same to say that nurse is the weakest she has ever been, it means nothing. The only thing I feel is unbalanced is Prove Thyself and Eruption, the rest is basically on the hands of the player skill.
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You can usually see after 1 survivor die, even with 4 Gens done, the game become downfall for them and the last Gen may not be even complete in the end. I would still do the last Gen if my last teammate is in chase though. But 2 survivors with 2-3 Gens left? Nah.
This game is weird, because 50% chance to win for killers is not equal to 50% escape chance for survivors:
- Many killers only see 4K as winning. Even 3K is a lose
- Which is, they have 4 matches of 4K, and 6 matches of 3K. They killed 34 of 40 survivors in 10 matches, and they still consider they lose 60% of the time. If you know what I mean.
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yea this 3 gen camping meta is such an a painful slog I haven't played survivor personally since the knight came out and that prolly won't change for me personally.
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Seems survivors forgot that there are perks and items that cause gens to be done in half the time now.Why do you think killers bring gen regression perks?
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This is most definitely the worst meta I've seen in the game since I started playing in early 2018.
I am worried for DbD's future. There is just noting to be excited for.
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back in the day u had infinite loops...these days infinite regression. Seeing killers go on relentless 3 gen patrol from the start of the match with COB really make u wanna hang it up. Now i kinda understand why killers was losing their $hit over the old circle of healing. Watching all your progression or pressure u build up disappear cause of one perk. Than they got the nerve to be cocky in the end game chat as if they was skillful.
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Infinite regression assuming that survivors don't spend a quarter of a second to negate most of those perks by tapping the gen. The horror.
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assuming u not incapacitated from eruption u can tap it but they will be right back over there to reapply it. And if u stay on it to try get some actual work done COB second Effect let them know exactly what u up to. Guess where they going back to? ......The hoRRor
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Survivors do have decent perks the last two chapters gave perks that only increase the Gen Rush meta along with some decent info perks.
BHVR themselves have said that Camping and Tunneling are valid strats and they don't want to completely remove or punish players who use them correctly vs those who do them incorrectly or at the wrong time.
Tunneling is good when you want to get rid of that one Survivor that could be the "clutch" player of the group or to make things more manageable depending on the Killer they are playing.
Camping or the Pseudo Camping I should say allow for good Pressure while keeping a eye on other Gens in the patrol area......and at End Game that's all that's left for Killers is to catch and camp that one player hoping for the others to make a mistake on the final rescue.
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I'd say: Tx MMR. Before we had meta builds / playstyles aswell, just... not every single game.
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The difference between 3 and 4 is kinda why i said there might be extremly livid debates about it. It's also about the binary nature of survivor ( dead or escaped) and killers variable killcount.
Personally I tend to agree more with the 4k crowd, but if killers think 3 is fine too, good for them, even if the game doesnt give a win-bonus.
My problem probably is that Survivors tell Killers to be happy with doing 75% and then letting the last go. Now, Imagine the outrage if killers decided to start telling survivors to be happy with only doing 6/7 (85.7%) or 5/7 (71.4%) of their objectives. Well, hatch exists so screw survivors doing their objectives or die trying anyways.
It's a weird debacle, how can one make the" chance to escape" for an individual survivor the same as "the chance for 4 (or 3) not to escape"
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The meta is just stale is what the issue is, it's something that at high MMR is unfun for both sides really at the moment, I play like four survivor matches and I'm bored then I go play killer for about four matches and I'm bored then too, I think I've just got too many hours and I'm getting burnt out on this game neither side is really hard if I'm being honest and it's rinse and repeat gameplay, the devs need to find other things to spice the game up like new game modes with different objectives that still keep the horror vibe while opening up a world of possibilities to keep people entertained and draw new players in
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I think the people designing Survivor perks no longer have a grasp about game mechanics, most of the "buffed" perks in 6.1 to entice players to use them are still bad or even worse than before (Calm Spirit and Pharmacy were direct nerfs). I can understand the tought "this perk is too strong so we are toning it down" we may or may not agree about the change but there is a clear and sound logic behind the action but what we have now is "This perk is never picked, lets buff it to increase usage but the result is still a bad perk or even worse" there is no logic, its like seeing your car with a flat tire thinking "Im going to fix it" and end with your a broken window AND a flat tire then think "ok, this should do the trick" what kind of train of tought leads to such actions?.
Now from time to time you see the usual posters saying "But I use Deja Vu/Dark Sense/Overzealous/Hope/Tenacity/NOLB they are SO good now!!" No, no you dont, nobody does because they are still subpar, Im yet to see those perks more than once outside of achievement attempts.
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Not every survivor demand Killer only aim for 3K (as letting the last one escape). Point is, thats still a win for killer, not about 3K, but about you can totally 4K but decide to spare one.
Telling survivors to do 85% Gen only is different. As long as the Gen isnt 100% done, they only have 25% escape rate, not 75%
Killer can do 25% objectives (3 hooks) to achieve 75% goal (3 kills)
Survivors either do 100% objectives (5 gens and a gate) to achieve 50-100% goal (2-4 escape). Any thing less than 100% is 1 escape. The equal is 1 survivor stay with you to have Entity kills them instead of escape. A pity kill, just like you give the last survivor a pity escape
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what are you talking about????!?!?! I love going into a soloq game against killers that run 4 slowdownperks (eruption) and getting absolutely blasted by their amazing 3 gen strat which makes the game last for 40 minutes. Oh and how could I forget that tunneling and camping is 7/10 games =DD
now I know this goes both ways jadajada. I don't play killer so I got nothing to come with, I mean I can try
oh how I hate when survivors just hold W, how they genrush the ######### out of me and especially when I need to wait before I down someone because of dead hard. was that good?
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I'll take this over skill check Ruin, Ruin/Undying and old DS anyday. Back then gens didn't even get touched until the totems were cleansed and by then the killer would have a few hooks and still have other regression to help.
Compared to that I'm more then fine with the gen kick stuff, especially if you're with a SWF. Solo, yeah it can be a pain but the biggest offender seems to be Eruption so if that got nerfed, I don't think it'd be that bad tbh.
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And then you got me, a killer main who loves to play chase oriented, nearly caving in under the constant pressure of gen rushing and DH being strong again to just give in and equip CoB/Eruption on everyone, because every thing else gets laughted out of the door.
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The equivalent that I always tried to face survivors with was "why don't you guys are happy with the 3E and let the killer have their 1K after a long and fruitless game? Just because you can swarm the hook easily and escort everyone to a 4E doesn't mean you have to", but sadly no one seems to be on board with that one :)
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I agree the "buffs" we got were insulting compared to the killers buffs to the point where we only got nerfed the entire update whilst killers got their entire basekit and multiple perks buffed...
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Great strawmaning lol
Are you aware that more than one thing can be problematic at one time, right?
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Uh...hate to break it to you but:
- Nurse has been the top dog since...honestly I can remember.
- 'Slam gens and don't die' is the meta, because that's how the game works.
- 'Stop survivors from doing gens' is the killer meta, because that's how the game works.
- Whenever a lethality perk becomes strong enough to be viable, it is endlessly QQ'd about - see STBFL before Eruption became the new favorite. The only non info perks that can be decent are, sadly, regression based.
- The meta has never been more varied in terms of perks.
How many hours?
I know, I've finally broken 1000, and I'm still finding new stuff to enjoy. And a game that, in total, over the years might have cost me about 1.5 AAA games and I get 1000 hours out of is already pretty damned good.
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People so easily forget the self-care mid chase era. What a painful flashback lol.
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