Should killers have something like the hatch?
I don't play survivor very much, but the few times I do, the hatch is a huge relief--it lets me know that in the not-so-unlikely chance that my team is a total flop, I still have a fighting chance. I play killer much more often, though, and I don't think there's any sort of similar consolation prize for killers. Would it be necessary for killers to have one? What would a killer hatch look like?
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Isn't this what they already have? The map shrinks. They killer can get stomped pretty hard, but turn things around when the map shrinks or at the exit gates.
Also, NOED.
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The Killer equivalent is camping the hooked Survivor during endgame. Killer also sees the auras of the exit gates. That's enough opportunity for one kill like hatch is enough opportunity for one escape.
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Camping requires a bit of skill on timing hook grabs, and a well coordinated team can bodyblock too coordinate a rescue. I was thinking something a little more up to chance.
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NOED is a perk and the shrinkage of the map won't necessarily happen without something like a three-gen. I was thinking about a built-in base game mechanic to salvage a bit of a win if you're lucky enough to come across something like the hatch.
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Yes. When the exit gates are powered killers should get access to a large, devastating weapon mech. A basic attack will put any survivor in range into the dead state.
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Killer equivalent of the hatch would be, that when 4 survivors are about to escape, the exit closes after the 3rd survivor left. Survivor would still have the chance to leave through the other gate or the hatch.
Side effect: survivors won´t spend the biggest time of the EGC at the exit gate butt dancing but instead leave asap.
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What has a perk to do with a inbuild game mechanic? Or are you proposing that survivors should require a perk to make the hatch spawn?
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Guess the new mori system when it goes live. Anyway, the hatch will always be meaningless and RNG.
Bleeding out or getting hatch is actually the same, it's a draw in MMR for that surv.
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As if survivors don't already patch up all of the gameplay issues with perks.
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Like, for example?
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Interesting idea, but it lacks the chance element and can easily be countered by splitting 3/1 or 2/2 on the gates (and doing both gates is already the correct play much of the time, so in most games it wouldn't even come into play).
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My first reaction was "hey, why not ?" but after some thought, I don't know.
0Ks are already significantly rarer than 3Ks and 4Ks. I feel like most times they're well deserved... Any thing I can think of that would work similarly to hatch (aka affect the 4rth survivor after 3 have already escaped) would just eliminate 0ks from the board at all considering it would make last minute saves (which require tremendous coordination, especially for split lobbies) not worth attempting.
Still food for thought !
In the meantime, I'll keep offering kills to cute killers who'd have a 0K otherwise.
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Can be solved by simply closing the closest gate of the last survivor. That way it doesn't matter if the survivors split up. They are even incentivized to leave before their teammates, even when they can't see them.
In addition, they could also add a bonus for leaving the match last. Kinda risk vs reward.
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Camping - Reassurance
Tunnelling - OTR
Slugging - Unbreakable
Prior to 6.1, the meta loadout contained UB, BT and DS, all perks specifically intended to weaken OP strats.
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Then you just force a 3:1 split that hugely favors teams with comms, who definitely don't need yet another advantage.
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Well the meta certainly changed with inbuilt BT. It's going to change even more with the upcoming hud upgrade for survivors. Also remember that the game isn't meant to be balanced for a fair 1vs1. As all perks you mentioned are doing exactly this. They give a survivor more power towards a 1vs1.
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No, because it doesn't matter if the last survivor is 1 meter or 30 meters away from the nearest exit. It would close that one the moment there is one 1 survivor left.
Remember that there is also the hatch left.
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Ah, I missed the detail that it closes the gate closest to that survivor.
Honestly that feels less like "hatch for the killer" and more like "#### the last survivor." If that were implemented, I could imagine Left Behind becoming meta.
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Problem is that the unfair 1v1 has a knock-on effect on the 4v1, making it unwinnable for the 4.
These perks have always been known as band-aid perks.
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Interesting idea, maybe killer could insta mori one surv tombstone style if 5 gens get finished with less than 4 hooks achieved and no previous survivor deaths.
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Just make the last survivor die if the killer pops hatch
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This is exactly what the exit gate switches are.
Because in a world where the doors simply opened when the 5 gens were complete, there isn't anything the killer can really do. The doors being closed and locked still is an extra opportunity/last hope for the killer to pull in a hook or kill.
For survivors, the hatch may be the only feasible objective at a certain point. Especially during the 'slug for the 4k', the only real objective for the last survivor standing is probably to hide for hatch.
Same thing for the exit gate switches. The killer even gets auras to know where to find/pressure survivors to get those end game kills. And there are a host of end game perks to help secure kills at the gates.
I'd also like to point out that the hatch is RNG, but generally favors the killer because of faster base speed and other mobility. The exit gates are also (usually) RNG, but favor the survivor only if they are far apart. Close exit gates, and fixed maps like Midwich still favor the killer anyway.
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Should survivors have option to do 33% objective to win?
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Endgame perks deserve some love. People only seem to use NOED and Adrenaline but none of the other endgame perks. A change in the endgame would bring a new dynamic of potential builds.
Which is what could bring fresh air to this game.
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Basekit yellow mori would be a hatch equivalent.
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That's why we need a change in the endgame system. A buff to endgame perks for both sides. That turns the endgame into a potential highlight of the match. With a possible comeback for both sides.
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I don't think that's needed
Survivors can lose a match purely because of their teammates so the hatch is there for them
When a killer loses it most likely is on them
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Nice in theory, but 100% unattainable, unless you dramatically redefine the 'endgame'.
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The time between after which all gens are finished and the last survivor escaped/is dead. Current endgame is stuck. Survivors 99% the gates and then don´t fear the killer, because he´s not a threat anymore + wait at the exit to say goodbye to the killer. Or the Killer camps the last hook as if his life depends on it. This needs to change for both sides.
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Face camping your last down is the equivalent of the hatch
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The way that I see a killer hatch working would be if all 4 survivors are alive when the first one tries to run out the gate there is a 50/50 chance that the endgame plays out normally.
The other side of the 50/50 would reset the EGC timer, all doors that are open remain open, all survivors gain No Mither (broken but can pick themselves up), all survivors not downed or hooked teleport to the center of the map, there would also be 10 sec of bloodwarden to allow the killer a chance to pick up any downed survivors in the exit gate area and downed survivors recovery progress would be reset to 50% if they were above that so they cant just immediately pick themselves up.
At this point they can choose to go for rescues or just escape, the killer can guard the hook/ door they were at or try to ambush at the other door.
This eliminates the current issue for most killers of getting a hit at the hook, the unhook happening, the hooked survivor blocks with BT, and the others block while they get to the 99ed exit gates and everyone gets out and the killer cant do crap about it
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The map shrinks down, even if it is not a 3-gen you still have a smaller map, and you definitely do when you get to the doors. Much like how the hatch is random and can spawn right by the killer or survivor, the door setup can be either survivor or killer sided.
And NOED is obviously a perk, but survivors also have perks that let them seek out the hatch if they want to play that way. You don't need NOED to get someone when it is down to the doors, but it really makes it much easier.
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That works for the killer's side, but not for the survivors' side. You can't really make a comeback option for survivors that comes into play after the fifth generator, or after the other three survivors are dead. That's the problem I'm foreseeing.
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They do. They can close the hatch and it’s actually more advantageous for them considering they don’t have to hide.
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you can tunnel for an easy 3v1
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Yes!
If the survivors have finished all the gens and I only have 1 or 2 hooks, let me jump through the hatch and move on to the next match!
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Devs have said the function of hatch is simply to ensure the game ends. If no hatch, then the last survivor could just play a longa** game of hide n seek. So either survivor jumps in hatch and game ends, or killer closes hatch and endgame starts, which ends the game in a couple minutes.
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A killer that can get into a mecha (or is a mecha) would be sick as hell actually, maybe some kind of Terminator-like robot killer, and as the match goes on they can gather scrap and once they have enough they can build their mech and be greatly empowered for a while
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End game build for killer is game changer, giving 2nd chance to killers (technically, since it means they're weaker in mid match) to get kill with Noed Rancor BW.
End game build for survivor isnt
- If Im able to reach to end game, I dont need those perks to win.
- If those perks help me to escape as Im last stand in end game, I could use something else to give a chance to my teammates to escape with me.
- If Im not the last stand or die mid match, I had no perk in play.
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The problems with killer endgame builds are very similar.
1. I can get a 4k before engame making those perks irrelevant and I could have run a different build to let me win earlier.
2. I can run those perks but if I am up against 4 survivors it can amount to nothing because while they cant open gates from NWO, and I get 1 down and hook from NOED, they can cleanse NOED and get the rescue and bodyblock their way to the gates and escape without being able to get bloodwarden to activate, or abandon the 1 and the 3 still get out.
Now where the problem comes in is survivors dont have to run an end game build, the last survivor no matter what gets a 50/50 chance at escaping regardless of what they have done throughout the match.
Compare that to the killer experience of the gens getting finished with 4 survivors alive and no one on hook without an endgame build.
First off to even get into that position you are obviously dealing with survivors at a higher skill level than you, your chances of getting a down before the gates get done is already small and depending on what killler you are it can be almost impossible to secure a kill against the 3 remaining survivors. The killer doesnt get any mechanic to give them a better chance in this scenario.
I'm actually more surprised that more killers dont AFK towards the end of matches like these especially when you factor in what that one kill is actually worth totally isnt worth the effort involved
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I think endgame perks should be much stronger than they are now. People usually only think about NOED, BW and Adrenaline, when someone mentions endgame builds.
But i think all endgame perks should be strong to give an alternative to the usual playstyle. After all, they're perks that are deactivated during the biggest part of the match and might not even come into play. So why not make them stronger? As a reward for reaching the endgame for survivors and as an incentive to play something else than stacking 4 slowdown perks and tunneling someone out early.
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But what if endgame perks were actually so strong, that they are a real gamechanger for both sides?
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>>First off to even get into that position you are obviously dealing with survivors at a higher skill level than you.
It's just wrong. It could be killer's choice. Killer ALWAYS get to endgame if they want to. Killer's build can go wrong, ofc, but the opportunity will be there no matter what. Their endgame build will become active every game if they want, nobody can deny it without their will. And survivors can die prior endgame.
You can make 4k much earlier, but then you win. You don't need those perks because you were good enough to win without them. Survivors can die much earlier, and then they loose. They don't need those perks because they actually need other perks to even make it till endgame. That's why situations are uncomparable (and why endgame builds for killers are much more viable).
And here lies the problem with "hatch for killer" idea. Hatch (as a pity escape option) is spawned for last survivor after others are dead, so it's obviously the team have lost the game. Survivors can't "fake" their loss and get advantage out of that in any way. Their loos is death on hooks, hard to fake it. And no endgame perks will give them huge advantage and ability to stay alive if they already are alive for long enough. Adrenaline is only reasonable exception, still it can be used in vain.
But killer can "fake". Killer can stay afk or play chill on purpose to get later advantage out of endgame perks and - then - out of this new hatch mechanic too. Advantage, you see. Not a pity-tie-option-which-won't-count-as-win-or-loose. Advantage.
Summary:
1) How can you separate true loosing killer who needs this hatch and killers who throw their games on purpose to get to noed+bloodwarden endgame asap?
2) Only one survivor can get hatch, after all others are dead (your team lost but you personally managed to outlive all of them). 1/4 of them. I don't say you can't reward killer for making it till endgame even though killer always can make it. But how would you design this hatch to make sure it's a pity prise and not a way to kill ALL survivors? How can you ensure they won't get more than was designed? That was the reason why old hatch was nerfed.
3) US vs THEM point. Even though hatch rob killer for last kill it can't rob the rest 3k and overall feeling of won game. Lot of suggestions is to rob one survivor and give them to killer "for free" by blocking gates on them or smth like that. And, yeah, I know "the rest of team escaped why are you so upset" but realistically it's much stronger situation, it turns win of one person into loose of one person. Not win-but-liitle-smaller as it is for killers. Loose.
In the world where killers already call hatch a free escape despite the fact survivor has to actually survive to get it (and killer can deny it by slugging) you want let them stay afk fo the whole game and then get hatch-y free kill? Which survivors can't deny in same way as slugging for 4k does? Imagine holy wars about that :D
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But you can't do this for the survivors' side, because there's no way for them to recover once they've lost, short of bringing dead survivors back in. Basically the only thing you can do is make the hatch 'more free' for the last survivor.
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No.
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Yeah, the killer should be able to open the hatch an leave, but I also think survivors should be able to mori the killer! Like the Knight's Mori, the 4 survivors finishing them 🤣
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The map does NOT shrink. If you are trying to imply the number of gens that need to be patrolled goes down, that is true but that is hardly shrinking.
Non-gen areas can still loop, use pallets, and I absolutely will boon in an already finished area for a safe healing station.
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This is purely about the endgame. When all gens are completed. Not when 3 survivors are dead.
Survivors could get a endgame perk like old BT. That protects also the unhooking survivor but only during endgame. Which would make camping the hook when the gates are powered less viable.
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How about no?
All that does is give Survivors a free endgame unhook and shaft the Killer. So apprently the Killer is now not allowed to camp an endgame hook when the gates are open (Or 99%'d, because Survivors always 99%)?
May as well just say 'Survivors win at 5 gens.'
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Isnt this why EGC exists?
Since EGC only really benefits the Killer and is designed to apply pressure on the Survivor(s) for completing their objectives and/or failing to find hatch.
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