http://dbd.game/killswitch
The killer camping and face-camping situation should be sorted out already.
It is really a misfortune that this base game mechanic is yet to be added to the game. Subpar killers who are only looking for the easy way out to win the game not only overshadow really skilled players but also ruin the whole vibe of the game when people are just looking out to enjoy this game.
In one out of five matches, there is always a killer taking an easy way out. There can only be so many survivors who use anti-tunneling perks, or any perks this solves the situation - however, how is this not even discussed, or even considered as a problem, is highly and grossly unfair.
Killers hated repeated vaulting, so it was resolved by blocking the windows. I have one more suggestion -
Pause the sacrifice ritual when the survivor is on the hook. It should be activated if the killer lingers within the 12-meter range for more than 10 seconds. This is only fair. Otherwise, this game does come across as very killer friendly.
What do you guys think? It would really help if this post is pushed and gains traction, so BHVR finally does something about it. Thank you.
Edit - I like how y'all think that Entity is the devil in this case not the GAME MAKER. That being said, why is my concern reduced to nothing, just because it has been posted on multiple occasions. You all like to celebrate the power trip by choosing the most easiest strats - and I get it. Nobody has the time here to play it the hard way.
Newsflash, it's the same for survivors. I also have seen the community that thrives on the disbalance and are quick to shut people down who genuinely wanted to enjoy the game. Bravo.
Mrkrabs- whatever your name is person here - I would love to be sacrificed and even find the animation funny, but clearly you enjoy standing on the face of survivors.
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If they are face-camping early on, punish it. We had a bubba facecamp at gen 5 last night. We popped all gens as they died on hook and we got 3 out. Enjoy your 1k.
Yea it sucks to be facecamped off rip, but it’s a strategy that I don’t see being taken out. Camping, more so prox camping can be the best thing to do in some situations.
Many posts have gained traction about this lol. It won’t make a difference.
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Okay, it has reached a point of comedy to see the "stop the hook timer when killer is in X radius for Y time"-idea getting proposed again and again and everytime the person that posts it thinks or presents it as NOVEL, when it is already 4-5 years old and didn't work in it's iteration back then.
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For me, game should be played around hooking survivors, and killer should be greatly rewarded if managed to hook survivors consequentionally. Entity should value pain and sufferng more than easy and quick death.
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I swear to God it's 7/10 posts for for new accounts.
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When the guy trying to murder you doesn't murder you in a nice enough way:
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Heaven forbid Killers try to win.
Only Survivors can do that.
Side note: The 'pause hook timer' idea was actually tried in game and abused by Survivors so heavily that it had to be removed.
How 'bout you stop trying to control how your opponent plays & tries to win? Kthx.
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There are perks now:
Kinship and Reassurance
So how about using them instead of begging for changes... or does that get in the way of what you want to do?
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1 perk to counter camping and 3 perks to counter tunneling (OTR on it's own is not enough because hit after unhook before you can move, so you need DS and DH to complement it now). So in the end there is 0 perks left for survivor because killer had to invest 0 perks for this "strategy".
The thing should be actually fixed. Or at least DS nerf (not the end game part) should be reverted.
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Just give the camped Survivor BP for every second they are camped.
Fixed, and Survivors can stop demanding Killers be forced to play sub-optimally.
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Make all killers 95% speed and give them 1000bp for every minute in game and consider them happy with the change /s
No BP's don't solve anything. If you can't play the game, the thing is bad experience and BP's will do nothing to fix the issue.
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If you can't accept that your opponent is trying to win just as hard as you are; Maybe don't play PvP games?
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So keep in game breaking stuff to keep more options. I am glad you want return of permanent hook sabotages to the game, because why should survivors be denied alternative gameplay to deny hooking for killer? He can still slug and there's still basement. You know your opponent is trying to win just as hard as you are. Maybe you don't play PvP games?
Can you see it now? Do you understand the issue? Denying actual play time is bad. And excusing it with "opponent is also trying" is 0 argument. The game should be about interaction. Making best play by being afk is detrimental to the game SO it needs to go. Or at least it needs to be not the optimal gameplay.
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You have a point... there aren't any perks that help Camping and Tunneling but there aren't any perks to help the Survivors either
And yes until that changes we will be at each others throats
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The ting is you are right camping should not be but to this day no one has delivered a actual good idea that hinders facecamping but let startigic camping still be a thing
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This suggestion was in the game until Survivors exploited it.
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Agreed
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Camping is only useful for the killer if it has some kind of instadown, there are seconds left for the sacrifice to be completed or the gates has open and you want a consolation price (and taking in count how bad grabbing unhooking survivors works, if there are 3 survivors left not even for this as they will unhook and start the body blocking parade to the exit gate with a little stop for the tbagging).
And this is not just an opinion, it is a mathematical fact:
120 seconds to fully hook survivor, lets say killer spent 10 second patrolling 3 gens, 30 seconds to down (being soooo generous here) and another 10 seconds to hook the survivor. 120 + 30 + 30 + 10 = 190 seconds.
A generator take 90 seconds without great skillchecks to complete. Now, lets suppose the other 3 survivors got to a generator by the time the killer downed who would suffer the camping: They can not just complete their respective generators, but also have an extra 40 seconds for the three of them to try the save.
And this in the hypothetical worst case scenario, if any of the other survivors had a gen with progress already even before the killer got to his first gen in his patrol, they would have even more time to do the save. Add tools, perks, body blocking, godly great skillcheck accuracy and all the paraphernalia to the mix and camping is not a good strategy to follow in the majority of cases for the majority of killers.
To be honest, many times camping work because the survivors doing, the moment someone get hooked or grabbed they just leave their generators flashlights and toolboxes in hand and go to the rescue in that instant without completing the generator they were doing. More so, even if the save seems impossible, they will still try even if they see that not only they can't save the first survivor, one or two more are downed.
So the lesson is, there is already an anti-camping system, is called "Don't get to Hero Squad Mode and do the gens unless the situation allows it".
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Your laboratory numbers do not hold to real world scruttiny. Also you would need 4man SWF to know what's actually happening. You want to know how it really holds up? Survivors have reassurance, or you get at minimum 2K. See:
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Do you realize the video basically agree with my statement, right? Literally the first phrase I said, "Camping is only useful for the killer if it has some kind of instadown"? Obviously a killer that can instadown 3 survivors with one swing would benefit from camping (and Hero Mode x 3) but again, for killers without instadowns camping is not a viable strategy in the majority of situations. And the numbers add up, as I'm talking about 3 gens done and trying to go to a save and he is talking about 5 gens and exit gates done (in fact, unlike me he is just taking total time to fully hook and 5 gen repair without taking in count chasing time, moment gens are started to be repaired and how many survivors per gen, but meh).
And if we want to do a "real world scruttiny", by the time the killer hook the survivor he is going to camp the other survivors can have a lot of progress in their respective generator (or even have done 1 or 2), taking in count chasing time and such by the time the killer down his second survivor the other 2 could have finished the last gens and try to save or get out of there, two survivors on the same gen take about 53 seconds to finish it without perks or great checks so they would have even more time to go to do the save, and in a real world scenario there is progression perks, great skillchecks, toolboxes, chasing time, Reassurance, etc. Just to name a few real world situations.
On top of it, the 3 killers he is talking about in his fixes (with Bubba being the one that most benefits from camping, obviously) only compose the 7.06% of the pickrate in all MMRs by September data, and we are assuming that one of them is using an specific addon everytime it is picked, so even if 100% of those killers would do camping it will still be a minimum amount of the games where that strategy is used in a viable way at the start of the match.
So doesn't matter how you look at it, I reaffirm what I said: Camping is only useful for the killer if it has some kind of instadown, there are seconds left for the sacrifice to be completed or the gates has open and you want a consolation price (and this last one is really hard to pull off with other 2 - 3 survivors body blocking).
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What about it? Because it only proves that if you have the right perks and addons camping is viable for some of killers if you only want one guaranteed kill, and when they get more is because the survivors doing (my favorite is minute 7:04, like dude... you don't only go to the rescue while he is right there, he is throwing knifes at you and you would stay still until you got downed! Big brain move 😂) so I think it proves my point.
If in every match survivors would do what they did to eliminate Bubba from the "tournament" (and it took them 6 minutes to do all gens, way far for the fastest time 3 survivors can do the 5 gens by Otz own words [I had survivors doing 3 gens in less than 3 minutes] and the two he killed didn't even had their perks at lvl 3) or what they did to trickster where 3 survivors escaped many of those games would end differently. Not only that, but by his own words, the moment he started getting higher MMR what was easy wins started to become so hard fought games (minute 15:28). Seriously, watch the video again and tell me in most of the footage he shows wasn't the survivors doing what allowed him to do a 2/3/4k.
So, yeah... unless you are saying that the way survivors acted in the majority of those cases against killers with specifics perks and addons (all of them being 22.23% of the pickrate, so the probability of finding one of those killers with those builds are minimal) was the right way to go, I reaffirm again my point: Camping is only useful for the killer if it has some kind of instadown, there are seconds left for the sacrifice to be completed or the gates has open and you want a consolation price and most of the times it works is because survivors doing and mistakes.
BTW, that video is before 6.1.0 patch was online and the BT basekit was implemented, which by the tournaments rules he auto imposed would made a lot more difficult to camp that first hooked survivor if someone would get a save as he wouldn't be able to down him again like he did in many parts of the video and would be forced to tunnel him, allowing others to bodyblock an all the survivors things they do.
Post edited by Batusalen on0 -
That vid is also a bit disingenuous (as in camping is even worse than shown, even with Reassurance). That is, if people actually watched the full matches he used for the numbers. In the Reassurance re-attempt matches he actively let people use Reassurance and let them get away without taking free m1/m2s the Survivors gave him by getting within range to use the perk (only 1 or 2 matches there was a meaningful separate story Reassurance if I recall correctly). He wasn't trying to win with a heavy emphasis on camping, he was trying to exclusively camp to see the effectiveness of facecamping only. Also two of the matches in the re-attempt he straight up got juiced (one on Ormond), and that would happen Reassurance or no. Again, compared to the test sample where he never got juiced.
If you do that same test now, you will find only 10-50% of matches with even a single Reassurance compared to the average of ~1-3 Reassurances per match at the timing of the video (either the end of week of the chapter release or the week after). If you would focus on winning soloq with a heavy emphasis on camping then it would probably only drop to 80-90% win rate (from 100%), with still no meaningful skill expression. You can still easily work around Kinship/Reassurance by leaving the hook and chasing and facecamping your next victim, then tunneling the Reassured survivor if rescued.
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It is a "bit disingenuous" but not for the reasons you give, but because he is talking (at least from the games he is showing in the video) exclusively about one of the few killers that benefits most from facecamping as I said. You can't center your argument to the one killer that most benefits from that strategy and then apply your result to all the others 30 killers of the game.
The video @Archael posted is a bit more enlightening in that at least he uses multiple killers without instadowns and as you said the main objective is to camp the first hooked survivor and get the most kills after that, but again, if you watch what is shown it's clearly obvious that as I said, many time camping works because even when the save seems impossible 3 survivors will try to pull it off at all cost and end paying the price of their actions.
The best way to stop camping is punishing the killers who does it by repairing gens while he is doing and make his chases as long as possible. That's all it needs.
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Well i think if you guys play Killer you realize the amount of stress on you And you see survivors acting toxic and truthfully speaking Camping Isn't useful anymore since survivors has basekit borrowed time and yes i am a Killer main and i Personally believe that Killers are way more stressful than survivors Because there are 5 gens and 4 survivors and if 2 survivors has a toolbox a gen can pop in less than 30 seconds so basically before you even know what's what the gen pops and let's be honest If the community won't be toxic No one would face camp Like No one clearly enjoys face camping but you know when someone Plays dirty and mocks you You'd clearly do the same
For example You see me in the streets and randomly punch me So isn't it logical if i punch you back?
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I love games that ends with 2 mins of hanging from a hook... this is a sarcasm obviously... I agree that camping is a valid way to win the trial... but really, making one player just unable to play is jus a bad design. The counterplay to camping, being "just do your gens" is also a bad design, because it just marks that one player is not playing at all...
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Sorry, but its hard to believe 3 survivors finished 5 gens in 2 minutes and they all escaped
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But thats the only answer
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No it's not, because it was tried, in game, and abused.
That means it's NOT the answer, because it would just be abused again.
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Can you show to me how it worked and how it was abused?
I didnt play the game back when it was implemented
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It's been described thousands of times, but here:
Let's call Survivors North and South, in relation to the hook.
They stand far enough away that the Killer cannot start a chase easily. Now the Killer knows he can only go after ONE person, and the other will run in for a save, right?
So he runs after North. North runs away and South runs in. No chase has started because of the distance. So he resets, and South backs up, and North resets.
Again; no chase has started, so the Hook Guy is literally immune to dying on the hook. And the Killer has literally 2 choises:
- Chase a Survivor, give up a hook that he can't progress because he's nearby
- Sit at the hook and never get a kill.
The game is now basically giving Survivors a free unhook or free gen time; whichever they want, just because they decided to force the Killer into a lose/lose setup whenever he hooks someone.
This was how it was abused. This is not a made up story. This is not a 'what if' or a 'They COULD do this'. This. Is. What. Happened. The Killer was FORCED to give up hooks because Survivors found the minimum distance to camp the hook THEMSELVES to lock down the Killer or force him to walk away.
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And where is the abuse part? Or i missed something.
The system has to force the killer from leaving the hook, so that other people have ability to unhook a surv. the system do what it meant, and this is called " an abuse"?
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Yes, because Survivors were FORCING the Killer to either accept the mechanic or leave.
It was abused because the developers said this was not intended. It was removing choice from the Killers and too easy to turn into Killer losses via Survivors just forcing the mechanic, and thus it was removed.
It went from the intended 'Make Killers leave' to 'Survivors forcing it ON EVERY HOOK'. They were leaving gens and standing around the hook to get free, safe unhooks 100% of the time, instead of playing their objective.
But Survivors tended to reply with 'Well, we were getting what we wanted, so we don't see the abuse'.
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So 3 people not repairing, sounds good to me
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And someone who cannot be killed. Which then turns into 4 people doing gens.
Again; the mechanic was meant to encourage hunting and discourage camping. But Survivors had turned it into a win/win scenario where they always got unhooks because they FORCED the mechanic onto Killers.
Once again; the devs decided it was abused. No matter how you slice it; that was the end result. It was abused.
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Sorry, I have a hard time understanding this
The abuse is that the killer cannot leave the hooked survivor area?
I am so confused
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I may not be saying it well but the abuse was that Survivors would basically force it to happen for free unhooks.
It stopped being a mechanic to discourage hook camping and turned into a mechanic by which Survivors could, 100% of the time, get safe unhooks. And since the Killer is SUPPOSED to be the power role, this did not mesh with that concept.
Survivors were basically mooning the Killer and twerking and knew the only 2 outcomes were 'Infinite hook time for our friend to solo gens' or 'Free unhook'. Thus, it was abused past what it was meant to do.
You keep boiling it down to 'Killer had to leave', which loses all nuance and over-simplifies it to the desired goal.
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But why the killer is not chasing one of the survivor down?
It started to sound like the killer is indeed camping in this situation
So how an anticamping mechanic is not gonna work against camping?
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Double post...
Post edited by Batusalen on0 -
Except the Killer is not camping if he KNOWS two survivors are by the hook.
Why should he be FORCED to leave, in that scenario? The Survivors don't deserve unhooks just because they really want them. They came to HIM, and he deserves to defend his hook if he knows Survivors are nearby.
But this mechanic allows Survivors to stand out in the open and the Killer could not protect his hook, because the sacrifice timer would stop dead since he was not in a chase.
Thus, it was abused in a way it was not intended. Because it was never intended to prevent the killer from defending his kills.
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I don't see what is so hard to understand. By how it is described, there would be only three possible outcomes:
- Killer stays facecamping without moving. Hooking time would not going down as North and South survivors are there. The 4º survivor is free to do all 5 gens and open gates by his own.
- Killer decides to go after either North or South survivor. The other one not being chased would go to the rescue and free the other. They got a guaranteed unhook without the pressure of time running out to do the save and now three survivors are free to do gens while either North or South loop the killer.
- Killer try to fend of the hook, so start chasing either North or South survivor for a short time then come to the hook to defend it from the other. We are back to outcome 1.
In other words, what survivors are doing today with gens but with a hooked survivor instead. Why don't surprise me that survivors abused mechanics that put the killer in lose/lose situations 🤣
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Yeah, but a few things have changed:
- There are less loops to be chained, let alone loops that are incredibly powerful to the point of basically being an infinite
- Generator speeds have been dropped, twice.
- Generator regression has been made more basekit
- An EGC has been added
- Toolboxes have been nerfed
- Chases have been made faster
- Maps have been scaled down quite a lot
So simply stating "when the killer is in X radius for Y time and not in chase, but there are still gens, stop the timer" is a really good method to stop facecamping early on. It gives reason for the killer to go away from the hook. Back in the day, it was a lot more abusable, because a lot of killers that really relied on camping would suffer from it, and killers that didnt rely on camping didnt really care anyway. So you were just making weak killers weaker.
Right now, not a single killer really needs to rely on hard camping or tunneling to win games. There really is no reason to camp. And the moments that would need camping, are not really early in game. So for the heck of it: "while more than X gens are remaining" could be added to the mix, so that survivors can at least finish Y amount of gens so an insidious camping bubba with NOED, Dead Lock, No Way Out and Bloodwarden simply is not viable. Because the only reason its viable right now, is because he can facecamp and survivors that are not on comms cannot coordinate. You can "easily" finish all gens and escape with coordination, but its nearly impossible without.
So just to create the clause:
- has to be within 16 meters of the hook for 10 seconds or longer, with a buffer of 5 seconds(which the game considers camping too)
- has to NOT be in chase
- has to have more than 3 generators remaining
Once all 3 clauses are true, pause the timer. If any of them is false, continue the timer. And the only thing that truly suffers in viablility is basement bubba.
And while I personally would not like this solution, it is the second best solution. The best solution is simply adding a system like pings in the game, so you can convey information regardless of comms, but that solution has been ignored for 3 years.
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But only 1 survivor doing gens?
This can easily be fixed by not stopping the timer if another survivor is nearby
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Just chase down one of the survivors, down and hook them, rinse and repeat, no?
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You missed the point where Survivors would stay out of 'nearby' range.
You are still ignoring everything I said to oversimplify the result and ignore the actual fallout.
It was supposed to discourage camping. NOT give Survivors a free unhook whenever they wanted.
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Sounds like camping
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Well, i never see any of your additional conditions in any of these "fresh takes" which were the point of my original comment.
It is nearly always the same basic ass unconditional "hook timer stop" without any specifics as original "new" argument. And THAT didn't and still won't work.
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So, mechanic was meant to encourage hunting and sidcurage camping, but survivors was using it to "force" killer to hunting and not camping, and this is an abuse?
Okay, get it.
I have a question tho.
Why killer could not go for a chase with ONE of those 2-3 starring survivors, hook them, and repeat untill all was hooked 3 times? Why they had to camp, even tho it was to prevent camping?
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Camping with the knowledge of survivor on the direct vicinity is justified. But the abused mechanic made that also a lose/lose for the killer and a win/win for the survivor.
The easiest fix would've been a check for survivor in a certain distance waiting and the killer being in chase or not to keep the timer running in those cases and completely scrap it during egc.
But non of these extra criteria were implemented and tlsurvivor could abuse the hell out of it and killer lost all pressure from a hooked survivor. Also back then chases took way longer because survivor had even more resources on maps.
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nope because idiot survivors abused it the no hook progression. face camping is viable and wont ever be changed
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If a Killer wants to just camp out a single survivor out of spite, let them do it.
The issue is how effective this is in getting 4Ks as well as how gorram boring it is for that single survivor.
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