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DBD - The game where less skill = better outcome.
Well, I'm not familiar with many games where as much as u go higher in "MMR", the more you have to use skillless methods to win, for both sides.
Everyone and their sisters know that tunneling on 5 gens/gen rushing and splitting on gens are the best tactics to win easily in a dbd match. why would a killer start a new chase, with another 3k hour survivor, just to put him on first hook, while he can already go after an injured one, eat his OTR and get a second hook, camp him and get all the survivors leave their gens to save and tunnel him again?
The big streamers would never tunnel on 5 gens/camp first hook(unless they're meming). you know why?
Because while this whole forum protcets the "VaLiD TaCtIC!!!" agenda, everyone deep in their hearts know that even a 5 year old can win a dbd match using these tactics. you show no skill. it's like me playing a fighting game and then just standing still and my opponnent loses LOL, imagine how dumb it sounds, but that's how dbd works.
The most skill less methods are the best to win in this weird game, that's why tunneling and gen rushing are getting shame, not because of salt(well, a bit) but because literally a 7 year old kid can get the same result as.. YOU SIR, WITH 3K HOURS(looking at you, wraith mains).
So until the devs won't find a way to make skill matter, your wins WON'T feel earned. keep lying to yourself, If you tunnel on 5 gens or gen rush with your toolboxes and hide when the killer comes to your gen, you don't earn your wins, you have no real skill, you cheese them by doing a "TACTIC" that everyone can do without trying, even my grandma.
Comments
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Well, for most people winning equals fun. I will never understand this sentiment, but I guess some just need their 4k or their escape, no matter what. It's also an issue that there are enough people who are letting out their anger and frustration in this game. It doesn't matter to them whether they play in a way even a little kid can do or not.
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I mean… I hit 75 in my blight win streak tonight with some tunneling when needed and zero camping… speak for ya-self!
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I'm also a blight main, and some blight or nurse mains tunnel from 5 gens even with 3 -4 regression perks. try to get that win streak with another killer that is not blight/nurse/spirit.
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I mean, I sorta like were you're coming from, but have you seen 7ys old play video games? How they're little,grubby hands struggle with the controller and their little minds are reeling from all the crazy stuff going on?
And you made that your main point, several times stressing this and circling back.
Yes, it's a shame that the cheapest tactics are also the most effective, but they are not that braindead that a literal 7ys old could pull them off. Lol, just imagining my 7ys old cousin trying to catch up with Trapper to me looping. Hilarious. The poor guy would sooner throw a hissy fit and storm away then ever getting withing whiffing distances, and I am a mid looper at best.
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Well yeah I exaggerated the situation on purpose to make my point clear as much as possible.
People always argue about "It's my only objective I have to rush gens" or "Why wouldn't I tunnel? it's the best strategy and I wanna win!"
But they forget the reason these tatics are getting shamed in the community since 2016-17 up until today, why all the big streamers don't use them every game is because these tatics are proven to be skillless, the easiest and cheapest things you can do, and I guess for many people, honor or showing skill is more important than forcing a win you didn't do anything special to earn.
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Sure, some do. But I literally never see blights running slowdown. Maybe 1 at most. I’ve done my entire streak with no more than pain res and DMS. Some games I ran no slowdown at all.
I still never camped. I rarely tunneled. Many of the games would have been easier if I did, but I didn’t have to, because I have the skill on blight to do that.
I’ve done 50 win - streaks on oni, nemesis, and wesker. I think I got like 30 with huntress awhile back.
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How is show offing with your streaks here is related to the point of the post?
The fact this game is easily winnable with the easiest brain dead tactics doesn't go against the fact that you can also win without them.
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Tunneling and camping is valid and using a few streamers as your proof against tunneling and camping doesn't prove what you think it does.
Big streamers have to play for the entertainment of their audience which generally means doing more than just running meta all the time.
Tunneling really isn't "skillless", because bad killers who try to tunnel out survivors who are better then them will get ran around for multiple gens. Killers who are good at the game can take advantage of tunneling more, because they are capable of beating survivors quickly in chase consistently.
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Why would I play killers where the individual survivors control the flow of the game? Why would I not play blight when he counters the worst part of the game for killer? If you get a 30 win streak on bubba or nemesis or billy the survivors simply played bad. The issue with 85% of the killers in this game is that they have little skill expression and there is never a scenario where both sides can outplay the other at the same time. Once you go blight everything else is boring.
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crowman - I said it's valid lol, it's just skillless and im talking about high levels of play, when u use a normal mmr when the killer is around the same level of the survivors, tunneling is valid but also easy and everyone can get ez wins with this.
Sava - play who you want, I just gave an example cause that guy tries to show off that he doesn't need to tunnel with one of the two strongest killers of the game lol, there are other 28 killers in this game u know, that can't manage to do things that blight and nurse does.
Also in some games even with blight u have to tunnel, i watch lilith all the time and if one survivor held him long enough and the others did the gens(which happens all the time in high mmr, he has to tunnel him out).
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Here's the thing though. Nurse has no where near blights skill cap and all other killers don't have near his skill expression to actually out play survivors. Most killers Below A are given downs due to a survivor skill issue. No matter how well you play unless you are at some trash tile like Ormond picnic table pallets you shouldn't be getting hits. Plus blight has way more variety in counter play than any other killer but 99% of survivors don't know anything except don't hold w, 2% of survivors know how to pluto him off shack door(wow!). But there are so many more things you can do. Also you realize Lilith is not looking at his screen most of the time right? Once a month when he flips his switch he becomes godlike at blight which is when he is truly truly entertaining. Most of the time It feels like he can barely stand dbd and it's only because of blight that he does.
Any killer has to tunnel against a good enough team running good enough stuff, but it's a rarity to run into good teams in this game even considering comp teams(over rated by a mile).
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
idk in which mmr you're playing, but when i check profiles i constantly see 2-5k hours on each survivor, all of them know how to play well(maybe it's a region thing, I play in SEA). and of course you have to tunnel, In high mmr u can never hook everyone 3 times unless they don't know how to play, BUT. that's the probelm, sometimes some killers just do it everygame, they don't care anymore if they're against good teams or not because you can't know until it's too late usually.
My whole post is not to say that tunneling is wrong, it is most of the time essential in high mmr BUT I blame the devs and the game that the best strategies are the most easy ones to apply. I'm sure that when the devs created the game they didn't about people just trying to make a 3v1 ASAP every game.
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Tunneling is the most efficient method of winning for sure. But I probably have a 80% kill rate. I too play against 2-5k hour survivors(hours are over rated in the dbd community the game is too basic to warrant being anything but being amazing after 1k hours). And most survivors don't actually know how to play vs blight. It's too easy to know how to loop vs normal killers, that should take no more than 150 hours if you are trying to learn. the difference between 1k,2k and comp players is nothing but playstyle for the most part, comp players just pre throw and LoS plus shift+w even vs blight. I have gone against a total of 5 survivors who I would say are amazing vs my blight which is beyond absurd to me. I can't imagine playing this game for 2k hours and being anything but the top .01% of players on either side.
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Uh...
Did you watch the Community Cup?
Plenty of camping, tunneling and slugging. And yet - even with the survivors heavily restricted on what they could bring, killers had a really tough time of it.
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cause the survivors are comp survivors who are training for this scenraios and have a gameplan, now compare that to your average eruption + tunneling solo q exp.
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You can't balance this game around solo queue, because that makes SWF literally unbeatable.
Survivors can choose to play in a SWF. Killers can't choose not to face SWFs.
Thus, you have to balance this game around killer versus SWF. It's the best and most fair option out of a bunch of bad ones.
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Has anyone actually ever sat down and approach this, well, scientifically?
Like, how many bloodpoints/pips you get on average when playing fair vs playing scummy (with consensual farming as reference point?)
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people who do that don't care bout bps or pips lmao
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I didn't actually write down any numbers but on my journey with playing killer, I was paying attention to the pips and blood points. As a killer, I would have to do pretty much nothing the entire match to de-pip, if I run around and just injure/down people I will stay neutral, if I hook several times I will usually get 1 pip, complete 4k's will get me 2 pips. Now this is all at silver grade or below so it might be different at the higher grades.
Playing both survivor and killer, the shorter the matches, the less bloodpoints I see. I range between 13k-25k bloodpoints if I just go straight for kills off the bat without messing around. If I play around a bit and try to two hook everyone before I sacrifice, it will be 35k+. Survivor side ranges from 3k-15k on short matches, 23kish on average matches, 30k+ across the board (with killer) in a "fun" match.
Thats my personal experience.
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I understand the point you’re trying to make, but it’s not realistic. Idk about you guys, but if I put someone on a hook and commit to just standing there “camping” them, I can already tell you what’s going to happen 9 out of 10 times…they’re going to pop off all the gens, come for their person after and tbags all around at the gate.
When I camp/tunnel out one person for whatever reason I’ve decided, I also know ahead of time I’ve just decided to throw the game. Then I have to weigh if it’s worth it.
i think tunneling sometimes is a natural happenstance and in that event, it is what it is. If you’re a stealth survivor and you unhook and disappear and two seconds later I run into your injured mate or they ran j to one of my traps. Oh well.
Gen rushing does ruin this game. I get it, it’s the objective, but how many points are you actually getting rushing gens and then dipping? I got gen rished and somehow pulled off a 3k (thank you traps) but I still got -1 after. There just wasn’t enough interaction. Idk this game is becoming zero fun and between toxic players and just the current set up, it’s just becoming trash to play. It’s not fun.
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Tunneling is a strategy, it cant be skillless unless you talk about its execution.
Good players on good killers tend to do better in chases and thus can get downs faster, be it on one oe muktiple survivors.
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Here's the thing they are not really good killers if they have to tunnel and use the most unskilled tactic to win. Even bad killers usually can tunnel survivor out easily if they know to target weakest link. But good thing is most actually good killers I see go for multiple hooks because they trust their skill to win that way or want more challenge and just play for fun. Im not good killer but I still go for multiple hooks unless it's gen rush squad.
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This is about science, mate.
We are trying to break down what playstyle the game rewards better.
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Being good isn't just intentionally making the game harder on yourself. Your objective is to kill survivors, the less survivors in trial the easier it is to keep the gens from being done.
Calling killers skillless because you don't like how they are playing is a you problem.
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The point is me and many other people can win just fine without 4 slowdown perks paired with hard tunneling and camping. You told me try the streak with other killers other than blight, and I have, with many.
There are a tons of people that do not need any of these tactics to win.
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Show me one person that is objective that will admit that tunneling or camping on 5 gens and then winning requires skill lmao.
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I didn't call killers unskilled if you read my comment just that they don't trust enough their skill to win with other way than hard tunneling and facecamping at 5-4 gens. Tunneling and camping take least effort which why they're used. Most good killers I see go for multiple hooks there are some who tunnel as well only hooking one survivor again and again. They do it fast and pressure other survivors by slugging, kicking gens. But they instantly return to hook once unhook happens. They would win other way but they jusy want one survivor out no matter what. Personally if I win by tunneling at 5 gens I don't even feel at this point it's really winning. It's lot more rewarding to win actually playing well and getting multiple hooks. I still punish mistakes debending on situations if unhook happens right after hooking that's tunnel and if someone is left too long into hook I take trade or hook stage or kill. But these strats are not how I think I will play when match start.
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