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Hook suiciding is a loophole to DC without penalty.
Hook suiciding is used to DC except without getting the penalty deserved for DCing.
If hook suiciding is removed, people will either actually DC, AFK, or sandbag, ruining a game that… would be ruined anyways if they suicided on hook.
If people then actually DC, then they get the DC penalty they deserve. If they AFK, they should be kicked and given the DC penalty they deserve.
People already sandbag even when a loophole around the DC penalty exists. This does not suddenly make sandbagging a new issue.
If they sandbag and are too obvious about it, they risk a ban from the game entirely. If they play enough for it to be passable as just a bad player, then they’re still playing instead of quitting.
You can’t force a player to stay in a game they don’t want to play, sure. But you can make sure they don’t have a way to DC while avoiding the penalty literally meant for DCing.
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An exception can easily be made specifically for a situation where a survivor could try and give hatch. It does not justify keeping suiciding as a whole.
- Example: If only 1 or less survivor is standing (healthy/injured/Deep Wound), a Give Up option appears.
Hook suiciding ≠ Self-unhooking. Hook suiciding can be removed without removing self-unhooking.
- Example: A penalty that isn’t remaining time on hook. Eg, Broken for 20s upon unhook per failed attempt. A serious debuff for people not trying to suicide on hook, but doesn’t allow people to suicide on hook.
Comments
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Also no, something being unbalanced (according to you) does not justify DCing. The same way it does not justify DCing, let alone without the DC penalty, in any other multiplayer versus game just because the opponent is using a character/weapon/etc or on a map that heavily favors them or whatever else. Bring it up respectfully with the devs, but if you decide to queue up anyways knowing those things are in the game and that others might use them, that is 1000% on you.
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People should not be able to bypass the penalty literally meant for quitting. Having a way to do so IS the problem.
If they don’t play, then either they’re AFK (which should get them kicked like it would in any other game anyways), sandbagging (which would get them banned if too obvious), or actually DC (which means they get the penalty they deserve).
Also, 1 single debuff example is "a ton" I guess now LMAO.
Post edited by EQWashu on4 -
If the game was balanced people would not hook suicide
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Address the problem, not the symptoms.
You can't force people to play a game they aren't enjoying.
I'll show you exactly what'll happen.
People keep DCing! Increase DC penalties. Playercount drops. Hook suicides rise.
People keep suiciding on hook! Remove the ability to self-unhook. Playercount drops, people going AFK rises.
Something has to be done about AFK players! Penalties for being AFK. Playercount drops, People sandbagging or rushed action spamming rises.
It's a cycle. You can only fix it by addressing the root issues.
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no, hook suiciding isn't really an issue it should remain as is.
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It’s simultaneously hilarious and disappointing to see how eagerly people will out themselves.
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Mm, yes. That’s why people DC the second they get first hooked against anything, regardless of map/killer/build. Good try…?
It’s cute you think that those are the only situations people will hook suicide in.
The original post literally already answers you.
And here we go, someone gladly outing themselves.
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I'm aware. Just wanted to make a point showing how absolutely hysterical your position is. Not really trying to convince you or argue with you.
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Oh no, people that would DC/suicide on hook/AFK/sandbag and ruin the match anyways decide to stop playing which means one less person to worry about ruining a game joining the lobby… Wait were you trying to say this is a bad thing…? LOL
Also, DC penalties don’t stop people from DCing. It just means they don’t get to do it with no penalty, and have to sit out because they ruined games by quitting. You have this weird idea that people will mass sandbag instead of quitting anyways and taking the penalty. There will be people that just can’t be assed to spend the effort and time to sandbag.
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It happens, what can you do? The survivor hook suiciding or actually DCing, the outcome will remain the same for you. I don't know why bother so much about it. It's just a game. Finish the match and move on.
Thats what I do. Never in a million years I will be upset about a kids game
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The difference is if they quit via hook suicide, they dodge the penalty meant for people quitting, and are free to immediately ruin another game. If they actually DC, they have to take the penalty they deserve.
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Hey I mean if you want to kill off the casual playerbase and ensure every match takes 15 minutes to find and is a sweatfest be my guest.
Personally, seems like we should just make the game more fun. Likewise, we should implement the bot system so that everyone, except toxic players who try to make people DC, are happy.
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Of course, who could’ve forgot. The entire casual playerbase is filled with ragequitters that will all stop playing if they lose easy loopholes to quit without penalty. Let’s just aim for an arbitrary and vague subjective standard of fun instead. That’ll go great.
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Well, whatever well-meaning the other forum users might have had with you, that snarky, arrogant and condescending way of dealing with others is a surefire way to lose that. Just saying.
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This is not true, either. You can play Trapper on the Eyrie, if you manage to down a survivor in the first 30s of the game, there is a good chance that they will DC, and this got nothing to do with any balance issues, in this case it would be pure rage quit.
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Slugging until bleedout.
Mass slowdown.
Genrushing.
Hard tunneling.
Facecamping.
Pretty much everyone agrees these things are very unfun and that the game would be better if they didn't exist or weren't necessary.
Now, if one is a toxic player who enjoys these things, sucks to be you ig.
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Yes, the 10 posts of people just defending having a way to ragequit scot-free, the majority of which bring up points already answered in the original post. Oh, woe is me.
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Oh yeah, OP is definitely trolling but what fun would the forums be without this?
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The first can be fixed by just auto-killing everyone if everyone's been downed for a bit (to give chance to self-pickup).
Regression/slowdown versus acceleration is an issue that would take bigger changes to properly address (map reworks, tile reworks, mobility disparity between killers, etc). Same with tunneling and camping. They're not easily solvable issues. It's why BHVR has been working on them for years and still hasn't found a good full solution, but have implemented stopgap measures for now.
Do these things suck that they exist? Yep. Does you quitting make you just as bad because you automatically guaranteed ruined the game for your teammates that might have had a chance? Also yep.
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Like I said, if the game was balanced
which means if the survivor player could not expect a tunnel or a camp at all, I am pretty sure the chances of a DC/suicide will be lower
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Get real. There are literally players that will ragequit just because they got blinded during pickup/pallet stun, or because they went down first, or whatever other stupid reason.
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So if you get downed as the first person sub 1min into the game, everyone should give the match a chance to bloom. 9/10 DCs after a first fast down aren't people who "fear an unbalanced camping session", they just rage quit, and that will happen with the most balanced of games.
But there is still a difference between a rage quitter and a hook suicided: a rage quitter is just gone, a hook suicided can be unhooked and often this is enough to persuade them to stay in the game, if just a little bit longer.
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Since I started playing the game (more than a year ago) the DCs and suicides are way more common now than before
So what changed? Something must have changed, right?
Since the "meta shake up" it has been incredibly easy for killers to tunnel and camp, with almost no counter at all
Make tunnel and camping hard to do, and I swear to you people will DC less
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People trying to hook suicide will probably be on second stage if not dead before someone can even get there.
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I will not force anyone to play a game that they don't want to. If they want to leave, so be it. I never unhook someone that is attempting unhooks and not pressing the skill checks during the struggle. You know what I do? If there are 5 gens left, I find the killer and do exactly the same, because this is just a game. Who cares? My life is not gonna change because I lost in a videogame.
Caring too much about a game is beyond my comprehension if being very honest right now. I think people need to chill more. If you want to be upset, okay, but my suggestion is just to try not to. I promise it will feel better.
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Why is it apparently such a heinous and vile thing to expect people to stay in the damn game?
OH mY gOd YoU cAn'T FOrCe sOmeONE tO stAy IN a gaMe tHeY Do'Nt WanT To bE iN
Wow, cool! True! Accurate! I cannot geas them into fully playing the match out irregardless of any outside stimulus, so there's no point to doing anything ever I guess. If you're so damn opposed to hook suiciding being impossible, do you thing DC penalties should go too?
I'm sure that'll go great. It went smashingly every other time it happened.
Yeah, the game sucks sometimes. It's not always fun. Occasionally you want out of the match.
Thing is, at the risk of sounding a bit heartless, I literally could not care less. You queued up for the match. I assume you know what video game you're playing. I assume you have some prior experience. If you're so liable to flip the board the instant something goes wrong, don't queue up. Have a little bit of personal goddamn responsibility for your decisions and take the lumps.
I'd love it if the game was improved so people didn't want to DC, but i'd also like it if those people couldn't basically ignore the DC penalty that we have for a r e a s o n .
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Yes. I think the DC penalty is dumb and should be removed.
The bot system that has been proposed would be infinitely better. Until then, I'll begrudgingly and graciously tolerate DC penalties.
But I genuinely don't care when they're off. Nothing changes in my games. People DC more but hook suicide less.
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Well, people have different engagement levels. Some people couldn't care less about the local sports team, other people will be in tears and absolutely downtrodden if they so much as lose. The latter might not be comprehensible to me, but I surely know that a lot of people dearly care for their sport teams.
That being said, I don't take this game that seriously, as you said, nothing will change just because I lost in a videogame, but I happen to really love this game, its one of my passions, and I want to help to make it the best version that it can be.
I have seen a couple of survivors who just stood there afk after getting unhooked during a hok suicide attempt, but surprisingly, a whole lot more seem to gather new vigor in the fact that someone came over to unhook them. The amount to get tilted for some players might be just a little, unrelated bit, but in the same vein, sometimes it just need a little bit of empathy to reinvigor them.
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I know this is an often discussed and debated topic, but I ask those participating in the discussion to please keep it civil and respectful.
Also, a reminder that the admission, promotion, or encouragement of Unsportsmanlike Conduct (i.e. DCing), is against Forum Rules, so please be mindful of that (and the other rules) when posting. Thank you.
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Everyone regurgitates this but people will DC even if survivors have a 80% escape rate and tunneling doesn't exist. It's just an excuse. You should be punished for ruining a game, it's pretty simple.
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may as well just add basekit Deliverance. lol
20s per failed unhook attempt, I could see this having a way worse outcome than basekit Unbreakable.
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What do you mean?
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they upset because that one less survivor to be they meat shield to waste the killers time so thy can do gen get out that is all.
DC penalty only hurts killers who dc because they don't have easy way out like survivors do
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You know, games are here for entertainment and fun. You can't force someone to play a game if they aren't enjoying it. People go into the match expecting to have a good time. Guess what? D/cing, afking, and sandbagging (Honestly, I don't know what sandbagging is) doesn't make it fun for the other survivors. Guess what also doesn't make it fun? Tunneling, camping, slugging, 3genning, etc. Both sides are guilty of creating a bad environment for both sides.
Why force someone to deal with a match they aren't going to have fun in? 1 person d/c right after getting downed first time, the other 3 survivors are going to have a hell of a time trying to recover from that. Some people will find it fun, some won't. The escape rate for survivors on a 3v1 are drastically different than a 4v1. Killer tunnels 1 person out, the other 3 survivors are going to have a hell of a time trying to recover. Better to end the game as fast as possible so everyone can move onto the next one than drag someone into a match that doesn't want to be there and will ruin it anyways.
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DCing throws the game immediately. Tunneling/camping/slugging/etc are strategies that can still be dealt with, even if not fun to go against. And you misunderstand my post. I know people will leave regardless. But the issue is currently, they can quit while having no penalty for quitting. It bypasses the penalty that exists literally for quitting.
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I don't think there is a solution to this to be honest. I support penalties for quitters but when this game has "valid strategies" for making it unfun for each other then penalties will not solve the issue. People will just find another way to loophole the system or just not play the game at all and it will die. I think at the moment, forcing people to play the game is not the right action.
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I honestly think it's a good idea to not have hook suicide's in the game,if they don't want to play put the controller and wait for it to be over.
The being kicked from the match is a bit extreme you may have to answer the door,fixed the kids something to eat etc.
There's so many instances where the killer gets cheated out of a Mori because someone decide's to hook suicide which,I've also done.
I know not every killer plays like I do, I'll give a gen or two depending on skill level if a survivor DC's early but , I still want to play the game.
I don't like the fact of bots replacing human player's because a computer generated can detect counters to your input 2x faster than a regular player which can cause you to waste a bunch of time and probably has a better 4% chance to unhook them selves.
The game should remain as is in this sense it sucks when people leave but because you don't win doesn't mean you still can't enjoy the match it's only just a little tougher.
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So when I'm hanging on the hook, watching the auras of my team mates on the opposite side of the map each doing different gens or crouching in the basement, and the killer isn't camping, I'm just supposed to wait the 2 minutes until I inevitably die on my first hook?
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BHVR are a business and they want people to play their game. Even the people who DC or let go on hook or go AFK. I can't see them penalising the latter two as well.
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Valid; but i dont think its as big a deal as you might feel it is. People that DC are gonna DC, penalty or not. Whether they get the penalty likely wouldn't really dissuage them from dcing, i know it wouldn't for me. Although i do think that hook self-rescue being removed would be good opportunity for a lot of interesting gameplay changes
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The point is the penalty keeps them from ruining other games immediately.
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As @GuyInABlackTee mentioned, hook suiciding is just a symptom and not the root cause, and what he was trying to get at was simply giving survivors a huge debuff like that for attempting to hook suicide will just cause more depopulation and encourage more DCing/survivors throwing.
Basekit Unbreakable at least gives you a chance, punishing survivors by accumulating the broken status timer by 20s per failed unhook attempt will just make the symptom worse. It may sound good on paper, but terrible in practice.
I think the only way to address hook suiciding is getting down to the root cause as others mentioned, which could probably take some time as there could be multiple factors causing it.
Post edited by o7o on3 -
The problem is people ruining the experiences for others because they think they should be allowed to shop for games.
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I've had plenty of matches where we "lose" and it was still fun so I don't know what you are getting at. They were matches where we knew the killer wasn't tunneling/slugging/camping/3gen. All of us ended up dying but it was still a good game regardless. So your interpretation of losing isn't fun is not shared by everyone.
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But quite a lot of people on this forum and in this post are actively for DCing and getting out whenever via "taking a chance".
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Then why play multiplayer games in the first place when you cont care?
I wouldn't want you in my games when you don't care enough to stick around and quit at any personal inconvenience.
And if people don't want to play a certain scenario, that they KNOW can happen in any given match, then they shouldn't queue up in the first place. Multiplayer team games aren't made for cherry picking and leaving at the slightest inconvenience.
And I call BS on your claim that there wouldn't be a butt load of ragequit disconnects when they games would be "balanced".
R6S, overwatch, rocket league, league of legends... All balanced and still riddled with ragequitters of not for their respective leaver penalties.
People want to cherry pick their matches? Then they can take the boot if they ditch.
This, this and a thousand times THIS.
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My idea is remove DC penalties and replace DC'd players with bots.
Those who quit for random reasons will always do so no matter what and its an unfortunate reality you cannot really prevent.
However most people want to play matches out otherwise they would just stop playing fairly fast. If killers want to tunnel off hook and play in a very unpleasant way they will find they are constantly playing against bots only as everyone will leave. This could be community self correction to the issue of playing in a very unfun way.
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yes killer has never been easier and stronger only thing hindering the killer experience rn is bad map design. but if you still struggle as killer rn you're bad at the game i am sorry unless you're at a hellish mmr or certain regions.
plus have you seen otz play? every time i watch him i wonder how does this guy have thousands of hours on killer. he struggles with most killers who require mecanical skill, the way he runs loops are questionable most of the time, he does a mistake after a mistake after a mistake and yet guess what he still has a very high winrate lol.
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Those who quit for random reasons will always do so no matter what and its an unfortunate reality you cannot really prevent.
And they deserve to be punished and have their action followed by consequences. Either they accept EVERY flow/outcome for a match or they shouldn't even queue up. Most unfun things on either side are public knowledge after 6 years and if they can't deal with it they should just leave.
However most people want to play matches out otherwise they would just stop playing fairly fast. If killers want to tunnel off hook and play in a very unpleasant way they will find they are constantly playing against bots only as everyone will leave. This could be community self correction to the issue of playing in a very unfun way.
You call it self correcting but uhh boy, the amount of swf i expect to load into a game only to get instantly ditched by the killer for a bot with no penalties 🤣
Loading screen disconnects would get substituted with instant quits so the swf/last second switcher can get bored playing against questionably entertaining bots.
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It baffles me seeing people having to rely on tunneling and slugging to win when it’s literally a dumb move and only benefits you if situation allows it.
People see 1 gen get done and seem to think they’ve already lost so they start tryharding by slugging and tunneling then wonder why they lost
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