Do YOU think Eruption needs a nerf?
It doesn't really impact my own Survivor games, but anecdotal experience aside, I think knocking the Incapacitated tiers down to 8/10/12s would be fair.
What do YOU think?
>:3
Comments
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The worst part about it isn't even that it's OP or that it has incredible synergy with at least three other perks. It's that it makes games last 30+ minutes. The killer will immediately commit to a three gen at the start and it starts this boring war of attrition that just goes on and on. It's by far the worst meta this game has ever had. I would take ruin and pop back any day of the week over this current meta. Even DMS/Pain Res meta was much better go against since you could actually counter it by getting off the gen. There aren't even activation requirements for the current meta. You can just do it over and over again and drag the game out endlessly. Watch the hens video where he holds the game hostage until the time limit expires if you need to see how ridiculous it is.
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Only slightly. He definitely does not deserve all the whining that is now on the forum about it.
I don't take this perk as a killer at all and it doesn't often have any effect on my matches for survivors. That's because it has a pretty big condition. No, even two conditions: kick the generator, and then down survivor.
In many matches, there is simply no time to kick every generator that you see, and even if it is kicked, it does not guarantee that it will not be repaired before you have time to put someone down.
I've had a lot of survivor matches where the killer took this perk and also didn't get any effect for whole match for the same reasons. Yes, on killers who can catch quickly, Eruption sometimes seems disgusting, especially if they purposefully play from a triangle, but I had good matches where the survivors (solo) perfectly understood how to play from a swing. For me, it's even fun, especially when killer is too busy of kicking generators, but completely forgets that he also has to kill
What's more interesting: no one even remembered the existence of this perk before its buff. But still, 25 seconds of inactivity is quite a long time even for survivors. I think 18-20 seconds would be absolutely fair for him, considering how many conditions must match for his implementation.
And yeah, as long as there is a perk in the game that obliges you to play EVERY game from it, even if it is not in the match at all (dh) and a perk that makes the whole healing mechanics free (I still can't believe that he has been around for 1.5 years), there can't be any talk about killer's perks nerf.
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Absolutely. It leads to overly long games and stalemates. Its impact is way too high. It completely sucks the life out of the trial. I don't think the Incapacitated status should be in the game. It needs to be reworked or removed. Nothing fun happens because of Incapacitated.
When a killer focuses on a 3 gen strat with Eruption, survivors have two choices. Do all the other gens and 3 gen themselves, or try to break the 3 gen and get hit by Eruption multiple times. It's such a strong perk that working around it also gives value to the killer.
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Yes I do. Nothing major but it should be toned down a bit
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Absolutely.
It's a poorly designed perk that promotes unskillful, uninteractive and boring gameplay.
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I would prefer a rework, which in many ways could be considered a buff:
When you kick the gen, you 'Prime' it with Eruption for 30s.
When you down a survivor you 'Activate' Eruption for a further 30s. This only applies that 10% regression and starts the regression process. No incapacitated.
While Eruption is 'Activated', the next survivor to interact with it, triggers Incapacitated.
Crucially, what this means is that:
- Only one survivors will be incapacitated per activated gen.
- Letting go at the exact moment the survivor is downed and then jumping back on after it's triggered, is no longer a counter.
This doesn't nerf the perk, so much as it prevents it being disproportionately more effective against solo survivors and useless against SWF. SWF who know about it will let go in time, but will then be unable to touch that gen. This means SWF survivors will be forced to run to another gen, and forced to allow that regression to take effect. This could cost them well over 30s of regression, plus travel time to the net gen. Meanwhile solo's who are unaware will get hit, be Incapacitated for 25s (or whatever it could be nerfed down to) and limited to only 25s of regression.
And as I eluded, because this is technically a buff, the actual duration of the Incapacitated status could be reduced to something more sensible like 15s.
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It's poor design at best. There isn't anything else that's so high on reward vs risk in the game that can be used throughout and only actually becomes most powerful as the game progresses.
It's not even easy to coordinate when you're going down with comes as a 2 man which I play as with my friend.
The problem is you only see the real problem at 1 gen remaining too. Kinda makes the first 4 gen progress totally pointless as the game ends in stalemate or almost guaranteed loss provided the killer sticks to the kicking gen tactic and is patient .
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I think incapacitated should not be a status effect applied by perks, it should only be tied to killer powers like victor on your back or tier 3 madness.
They should remove incapacitated and replace it with entity blocker and up the regression from 10% to 15%
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Reducing the duration is not the right nerf.
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This
I don't even care all that much about losing the match but Christ, the people who run Eruption in my experience at least almost always choose three gens to hunker down at and make the game slow to an absolute crawl of a match. You might be able to beat them in a war of attrition but more often than not, somebody just gets bored and gets themselves killed in the process (and to be blunt, I can't blame them at all).
Such an annoying perk...
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I think Eruption just needs to lose Incapacitated, save that status exclusively for Twins like Doctor and Madness, and give it something else. Something still useful that doesn't lock people out of playing the video game for 25 seconds.
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Yeah. It, and its usual combination with certain other perks, can drag games out way too long.
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Absolutely!! Eruption is starting to make me hate this game.
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Most definitely. Its so unfair to be forced to do nothing for nearly 30 seconds just because one of your team mates went down.
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Putting aside whether the perk needs to be nerfed or not, I'm not a fan of the argument that it needs to be nerfed because of the incapacitated status effect. I don't care if not being able to do anything except unhook and run is "boring" or "unfun" for the survivor. Killer gameplay involves getting stunned constantly over and over during a trial. Victor eats a DS every time he gets a down, it takes forever to ADS as Deathslinger, Pyramid Head's power is intentionally made clunky and slow as hell, Blast Mine stun lasts forever, Wraith gets stunned for an eternity getting hit by a pallet when cloaked or getting lightburned, Trickster takes 8,000 years to put his knives away and kick a pallet and the survivor is halfway across the map as a result. Finally, add up all the time the killer has to spend doing nothing while they wait out stupid ass Dead Hard
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No...because it's only really a problem against solos.
What should happen is Eruption being reworked a bit to either make it easier for solos to deal with (working on hook not down) or blocking gens rather than incap, so people don't stand around doing nothing for 30 seconds.
And because they didn't call it out over vc, and you didn't let go.
Make it block gens instead. This lets it retain it's character and flavor, but less annoyingly (and maybe reduces it's synergy with other perks like PR).
The incap is what people are complaining about, so I'd see that changed - if only because it feels good to be right, and it wouldn't stop these threads at all.
Post edited by StarLost on2 -
It's incredibly strong but I wouldn't say to the point where it needs to be nerfed. But if I had to nerf it I'd:
- Revert the incapacitated back to 16s
- Remove the cooldown to compensate
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Reducing the duration to 10 seconds would be nice.
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It needs a rework, like so much in this game, the perk is too strong against solos, but too weak against SWF. It has the same problem old ruin did with the skill checks.
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The perk is absolutely overtuned. It needs to either have some kind of warning or telegraph so there is a method of counter play, or the perk needs restrictions on when it can be used.
Even a 25 second incapacitation would be more tolerable if eruption was limited to only affect one gen at a time, expired after a set time, only activated on downing a survivor, or even if the cooldown applied on kick instead of on down.
As it is, the perk is effectively always available with infinite uses and no counter play. That's way too much for a perk that removes a player from regular gameplay for nearly half a minute.
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Only if they buff Nem.
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Can I go with reverted? Before the meta shake up, I already thought that prebuff Eruption was better than prenerf Pop if you were going for a defensive/territorial play style. Even with just all the indirect buffs it got in that patch it probably would have become Meta.
I legitimately don't know why they buffed it.
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Yes
That it affects solo much more then swf alone is reason enough for a change. Regardless of how effective it is
9 seconds as swf who call out when they go down vs ~40 seconds vs a solo player is just too big of a difference
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Dear god please, im so tired of being handcuffed to a match for 35 minutes because killers just camp a 3 gen for the whole match. The free info on cob should be limited in someway too.
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I don't think it needs to be changed for balance reasons. I guess, they should change it due to popular sentiment.
I don't use it on most killers anymore so I don't care about the game effects of a change. I personally don't see the problem, if I solo and get hit with Eruption, its usually just once and I learn to watch ######### is going on. Maybe with an expose perk it might mess with me twice, but Its not enough to make it unfair feeling.
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It needs to be buffed to work properly against SWF, then they can balance it properly.
If you believe 'solo should be buffed to SWF and killer balanced against that', you HAVE to support Eruption buffs as it is the exact same logic.
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Yes it is completely broken.
It hurts solo survivors the most (the weakest role in the game) and having a mechanic in a game that results in players being unable to do anything is just plain stupid and very anti fun.
Not only that but having multiple survivors unable to do anything several times a match (as happens often) means combined you can often lose several minutes per match and in a game like DBD a minute is an eternity.
Gens do be going too fast and I am all for options to help with that for lower tier/lower mobility killers in particular. But Eruption is not the way to go
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Yes. I would suggest they increase the cooldown from 30 to 90. This should keep the perk impactful but not overbearing in 3 gen situations.
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Looking at the comments i´m probably alone with this opinion. But no, i don´t think that it needs a nerf.
First of all, killer has to continuously kick generators. Giving survivors a head start in chases or even breaks the chase before it begun.
Second, the 25 second stun is probably just an annoyance and more or less the same time the killer needs to clean his weapon, pick the survivor up, walk to a hook and hook. All in which only the survivors that were working on gens he previously kicked are bound to do basically the same: walk to the hook.
Third, most of the time the effect only affects 1 or 2 survivors at once with a total of effects that combined usually won´t pass the 2 minute mark during the whole match.
Fourth, this just reminds me about the Undying Ruin nerf discussion. Where everyone claimed that they have to cleanse 5 hex totems alone and that no gens get done during a passive effect that only works when no one does. Erruption took the place of Undying Ruin. A different perk (combo) will take the place of Erruption if it would get nerfed. Are we ready for something that could be much, much worse? Because as far as Undying Ruin goes, most people seem to agree that it was a lesser nuisance than Erruption.
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Killers shouldn't get pressure-free infinite down time because they downed someone, got a free hook state while supremely confident that no gens are being done.
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Indeed.
We also use it to tunnel for free.
After Eruption procs, we're confident that we can tunnel without 3 gens popping. It's essentially 30 seconds of free chase.
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No, I agree with you. It doesn't need to change for any real reason, other than people crying a lot about it.
Why don't they just make it lock every gen with it active for 30 seconds or so and remove the incapacitation effect, so survivors can do whatever. It doesn't work well against SWF and coms, It looks like it was meant to help with the near infinite loops near generators that happen on certain maps and it usually doesn't. I find it pointless, usually, but I do find the problem described above an issue I want resolved partially via perk( cause its cheaper than map reworks.).
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Its not infinite, its not free and gens can still pop during that time.
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Make it block the gens for 10 seconds.
Then make it so if you let go of a gen between the skillcheck sound and the skillcheck appearing, you get Incapacitated for 3 seconds, instead of the gen blowing up.
And add a visual representation of the skillcheck sound.
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This perk is on the weird place to balance.
It sure requires alot of setting up, survivors touch many Gens, killer kicks many Gens, then down a survivor when other 3 are currently on Gen.
The reward is either nothing (0sec save if no one works on Gen, which is never happens), or really weak (27sec save to 3 working Gens against Swf), or single hand win the game (120sec save against Solo).
Thing is, the closer to late game, Eruption getting stronger.
- the easier for killer to setup (3 Gens instead of 7)
- easier to pull off (the chance of all 3 Gens kicked is higher than all 7 Gens kicked, which increase the chance survivors working on kicked Gen)
- easier to affect survivor (survivors can go in pair and 1 work while 1 wait to not getting incap, if their teammate dies they have to take incap by force
- and the last, easier to down survivor and trigger the perk as pallets are gone and the only way for survivors to play is W until inevitable down.
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Absolutely.
Either the incapacitated effect needs to be VASTLY reduced or removed completely.
Or, there needs to be a visual/audible clue to allow a chance at counter play like with Pain Res.
I know some killers are obsessed with there being no counterplay to anything, but having a perk that you can't tell when it's going to activate stopping you doing anything other than running round like a headless chicken for 25 seconds waiting for it to wear off is an absolute nonsense.
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Contrary to popular belief, one side having a stun problem doesn't mean the other side should have a stun problem too, just that the original problem should be fixed.
What kind of logic even is that?
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Salty killer logic.
The same logic I've seen saying we can't fix Eruption because Dead Hard was abused for so long. It's 'their turn'.
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Working on hook will make incap pointless, people can see the moment teammate is about to get hook. Incap will never happen with that change. Especially the next update survivor status showing being carried, knowing teammate is about to get hooked. This info was strong when using Pain res + Dead man switch combo, Fear monger denies survivor to see if their teammate is about to getting hooked or not.
Blocking Gens is what it should be. It will stall Gens both Solo & Swf equally.But still a single perk should not block Gens for like 3mins throughout the match.
A perk should not be this broken against Solo just because its weak against Swf. If its useless against Swf, why everyone use it?
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IMO they should give the gens a visual effect showing it'll erupt, and change it to only preventing you from repairing gens that were Erupted in the last 25 seconds instead of giving you Incapacitated status.
Personally, playing against it doesn't particularly bother me, it's just boring to not be able to do anything (with some exception) for 25 seconds.
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It is infinite, by virtue of being tied to a simple cooldown, instead of a post-hook system, or something like Deadlock where it procs 4 times a game.
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Eruption itself is not an issue - it's the stacking of it with things like Call of Brine, Overcharge, Jolt etc. when it becomes an issue. The problem is, it's VERY OFTEN stacked with these perks so you just know from the moment Eruption activates the match is just going to be a trial of attrition which isn't ideal.
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Here's the thing though.
Regression perks were, for the most part, nerfed across the board and 10 seconds were added on to gens.
However, BHVR than buffed some faster gen perks out the wazoo, left some stronger ones untouched and added more perks along these lines - meaning that, in a SWF, you can do gens faster than in 6.1.0.
Eruption may or may not get nerfed (and when it does, yay, we can go back to complaining about PR or something until that gets nerfed) but killers don't run deep regression because it's fun.
They run deep regression because there's always a chance your next match will be a bunch of gen bunnies with a nasty map offering (and because outside of regression, killers don't have many universally useful perks that aren't info related, and info gets redundant fast).
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It doesn't need a nerf at all. Never got problems with eruption, and for everyone who complain about it: get ######### good. It's a skill issue. It's like pain resonance: oh I know the killer has pain resonance, I don't want my gen to be blocked with dms, so I stop doing the gen, wait for the hook, let the gen pop and continue with it. Eruption is a little different, because in solo q can possibly be lethal but because the communications is absent. I play only with my swf, and we say "I die" like 2 seconds before the killer can hit us and bring us to dying state. So we prevent eruption.
Get good instead of crying for nerfs where aren't needed. And for soloq, I'm sorry, but this game can't be balanced around you all, and you can't cry for a nerf where isn't needed.
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I'm not arguing that at all. I fully understand why the current regression meta is a thing and for the most part it doesn't bother me all too much. But I think Eruption is a bit of a tipping point with it mainly due to the unpredictability of it and the snowball effect it can cause. It's all a bit of a perfect storm scenario where none of the perks alone are overly problematic, but together they are.
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Eh...
I don't think this holds either.
On one hand, I really don't want to see a perk that is fundamentally fine against SWF to be nerfed for the sake of solos.
On the other hand, this is really annoying to face for solos because there isn't any reliable way to counter it. Oh, you can try to guess and be observant about which gens have been kicked and when someone is going to go down, but then it becomes a choice between 'stand around doing nothing' and 'stand around doing nothing while the gen regresses'.
Make it block gens rather than incap, call it a day.
But we'll see what happens with the new icons as that will definitely help.
Eruption is one of those perks that I...actually don't run much, as it's basically a 'win more' perk. It tends to turn games you were already going to win into miserable stomps from the other end, but won't do much to turn a game you are losing around.
I will also admit that I'm a touch biased here, as I'm sick and tired of literally 'whatever the current killer meta is, is overpowered and must be complained about incessantly until we get it nerfed' mindset that seems to exist on these forums.
But...again, there is a middle ground here, i.e. changing the incap to a block so people can do bones, heal etc. If the forums are actually being honest (har) then it's more about Eruption being annoying than being overpowered.
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Eruption will one hundred percent, absolutely, be nerfed. As it should be. Quote me on that. And it is as clear as day why it needs to be nerfed.
Anyone who tells you Eruption is fine for game health is either lying or is completely oblivious to what is good for game balance.
It is as simple as that.
So incredibly wrong.
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Oh absolutely, I am fully ready to admit that my main gripe with eruption is that it's annoying - or rather, it can be a touch too oppressive is how I really feel.
But, I do think that can be considered as a valid reason for change - the perk can still be made effective for killers whilst not being an absolute annoyance too.
The problem is, many here who favour the killer experience take issue with things having counter play. But, to be fair to both sides i think it needs it - all other strong perks do; Pain Res - let go of the gen as soon as you see the red silhouette start to be hooked, Call of Brine/Overcharge - tap the gen. Sometimes these things cannot happen because the killer is so effectively controlling the environment but that's just how it goes. But providing an element of counterplay is key to finding balance imo.
Perhaps if Eruption wasn't so prevalent, then it would be less of an issue. But unfortunately, it's extremely prevalent and being used with perks that exacerbate it's negative perception.
The ironic thing is - Call of Brine and Overcharge are way more effective than Eruption is at making gens more difficult to do - but no one seems to be bothered about those with Eruption taking the flack and I think it being a strong intensifier to an already strong situation is definitively the reason.
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Twenty Five Seconds.
Even if you assume a 1-4 time conversion for killer (which is only situationally true) nothing incapacitates a killer for 7 whole seconds. Every hyperbolic example you gave is less than 5 seconds, some of them as little as 2 seconds.
Ultimately the main issues are:
- It always triggers against soloq and rarely triggers against SWF. This makes is unfairly disproportionate against a certain class of survivor, and in a way that killers should have a problem with. Why would you want your best perks to be ineffective against SWF??
- It inflicts 40 seconds of equivalent regression, on a 30 second cooldown. Which means when used efficiently, it makes it impossible for survivors to gain any ground against it.
4 -
I'd also like to point out that Eruption locking the gen for 25 seconds can guarantee a loss of anywhere between 25% and 50% if coupled with optimal perks - e.g.
Eruption - 10% instantly, Pain Res - 15% instantly (on one gen only), Call of Brine + Overcharge combined contributes guaranteed -25% at least (the time it take incapacitated to wear off) and 30% at worst (when the combination loses this level of efficiency and if the gen hasn't been tapped).
So in 25 seconds it takes for Eruption to deactivate this provides a guaranteed loss, with this build, of 50%. If you try to tap the gen and miss the Overcharge skill check that's an additional instant 5% loss - so 55% total.
The CoB+Overcharge combination will then continue to regress whatever is left at 275% for another thirty seconds. Whilst by this time the direct effect of Eruption has worn off the survivors working on it may have found a new gen, be downed, be unhooking/healing, be in chase or the killer may have had time to come back and kick it to ready the whole process again.
Like I've said above, it isn't Eruption alone that's the issue - Just as Dead Man's Switch isn't an issue and does a very similar job, for longer, but the snowball effect the incapacitated effect can and does cause at the moment.
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