General Discussions
General Discussions
The insta three gen meta is out of control
I cant barely stand it anymore with solo q its almost impossible to break with no communication. When killers just hold a three gen at the beginning of the game and my teammates just do all the outliyers and leave us to and unwinnable slug of a game lasting 30 minutes until we get tired and give up. Please bhvr gang it up!!!!
Comments
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If he's camping a 3gen from the start, making no effort to chase or anything and just stalling the game out (Peanits gave the example of a Doctor who just shocks folks off gens) - that's a hostage situation, and worth reporting.
Because yeah, it sucks.
The problem is that:
A. Defending a 3gen is often one of the few routes to victory a killer has against a nasty SWF.
B. It's hard to know if you're against an SWF at the start.
C. By the time you've realized they aren't, it's too late - because now if you abandon that 3gen, you lose.
Sadly, this is a strategy that really requires coordination to beat. Potential Energy is the best anti 3gen perk in the game, closely followed by Deja Vu, but both really need a team behind them. But...this game cannot be balanced around solo players.
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Killers should not have any strat at all, they make the game less fun, less easy for me, nerf them more, only i should bring and play however i want
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Potential Energy is the best anti 3gen perk in the game
I'd consider Prove Thyself higher value than that. Only way I can see Potential Energy breaking a 3-gen is if multiple people are taking it, which requires too much coordination.
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Any decent slowdown hurts solo que. Eliminating 3 gens or the perks that make defending them so good won’t magically make solo que any better.
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No it's not. Patrolling the gens is not bannable. You sound like the killers who think "looping" is an exploit.
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The problem is coordination. What they really should do is split out solo queue from SWF and balance the 2 modes differently. in solo queue, survivors get basekit kindred and have mapwide bond, and blindness works differently on them. And then in SWF mode, they can do something to buff killers. Then give bloodpoint bonuses for playing in w/e queue they want to prioritize.
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Won't work. I doubt they'd want to split the somewhat shrinking playerbase, but more importantly all killers would just stomp the solos, and SWF would get no lobbies. No basekit perks would change that.
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Obviously other things could be done. But the point i'm making is that the only way to properly balance the game is to split them up, and then have literal balance changes based on the queue you are in. Plenty of games have different rule sets for example for ranked vs casual play. For example, CS:GO casual queue gives you extra armor and more money each round, whereas the ranked queue is a lot more strict with the money and you have to buy armor.
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Imo no amount of bribery or limitations would induce most killers, including me, to willing to go against with SWF when there's the option to vs. guaranteed just solos.
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Pretty sure they confirmed that it IS considered holding the game hostage, so....
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Sounds like a fundamental problem with the game, if one of the roles wants to completely avoid a style of play doesn't it?
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Unless you can provide some kind of evidence for that, there is no way that patrolling generators is against the rules. And if that is the case, i'll quit the game today, because that would be completely ridiculous.
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Problematic for multiple reasons. The only killers queuing up for SWF would be the ones who don't need buffs to beat SWF in the first place. And then they'd have ridiculous win rates given their buffs in that mode. There are killer players out there above 1600 MMR who never even factor SWF into the equation on any killer because it doesn't matter to them. Buffing those players would be wild
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This was done in other Therads were you also participated. The example was a Doctor who did not do any effort to go for Kills.
And you can patrol Generators. But you cannot just stop doing your Objective to protect your 3-Gen without any intention of getting Kills or Downs.
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That was talking about a very specific circumstance where the player was specifically trolling by slugging, using doctor to constantly make people madness 3 with CDR on it and never actually hooking. There is a different between patrolling your 3 gen and only chasing survivors in moments where it makes sense, and actively trying to make the game as miserable as possible.
The point i'm making is. If i'm patrolling my 3 gen, and every time a survivor tries to get me away from it, they run to the opposite end of the map toward the strongest structures and/or where i don't have a pallet deadzone, chasing them would literally cost me the game. So it makes 0 sense for me to chase them.
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But at some point you HAVE to advance the game as Killer. If the Survivors are not holding it hostage by hiding, the Killer is holding it hostage by not trying to kill them.
Otherwise, we can start saying that Survivors can hide when there is a strong 3-Gen. In the end, their goal is to survive, and they will most likely die when they try to repair Gens in a 3-Gen.
But everyone knows that this would be a stupid way of thinking. But if the Killer is doing the same, it is completely justified, eh?
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The goal of the survivors is to escape. The goal of the killers is to prevent the survivors from escaping. If survivors are actively not trying to repair gens, they are not progressing the game. If the killer is actively trying to prevent the survivors from escaping, they are progressing the game.
The point is. In a 3-gen scenario, if the killer leaves the 3-gen, they lose. Why should the killer be expected to throw away the game any more than the survivors?
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In the wiki, for the killer role it states:
The Killers have been tasked by The Entity to hunt down and sacrifice every Survivor before they can escape.
In order to achieve this objective, a Killer should do the following:
- Patrol the area and find Survivors.
- Chase, injure and catch Survivors before they escape.
- Carry Survivors to a sacrificial Hook and hang them there for The Entity to consume.
Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair five Generators in order to power the 2 Exit Gates and make their escape. Killers should do everything in their power to stop them.
Patrolling is listed first in the list, and it clearly states the survivors will be attempting to repair the generators and the killer should "DO EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO STOP THEM"
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Dragging the game out to the hard cap of 1 hour (formerly 2 hours) should really not count as "prevent the survivors from escaping".
But I will stop discussing with you. You just dont want to understand it that a Killer who is not trying to go for Kills is holding the game hostage.
And honestly, I have better things to do than talking to a wall.
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I call it the reality of where the game is at.
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We are talking about 2 different things. The OP is complaining about "3 genning" and you are talking about actively intentionally trying to make the game last the hard cap. Those are 2 different things.
I also like the part where i presented evidence of my point, and you completely ignore it and then say "i will stop discussing" How about presenting some evidence from your side? Or trying to counter my evidence with different evidence? If not then i think we know who is right here.
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Pretty sure it's called not participating in normal gameplay.
It's entirely possible to hold a 3-gen without trying to kill any Survivors until the server closes.
Here. Looks like you needed to quit circa 2019
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Technically speaking stalling the game to the limit kills the survivors, so it is progressing the game.
The doctor example was very specific because he can spam keep people in tier 3 madness so they cant do gens because they are incapacitated. Patrolling a 3 gen does not stop survivors from teying to do gens.
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And technically speaking, I can body-block a Survivor in a corner at the beginning of the match. They'll still die to EGC and I'll still get banned for that even though the game is "progressing"
Clearly, there's nuance here
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No because that is preventing that player from trying to progress the game, patrolling a 3 gen and not letting the survivors pull you away in a chase is not preventing anyone from trying to play the game, thats the nuance in that sitiuation.
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Uh...yeah, it is?
You can go and check the dev post on it. It was fairly recent too.
It's a grey area if they've locked it down as a strategy to bait survivors in, but if they're just doing it to stall the game out by making it impossible to die or do gens, then that's absolutely bannable.
Technically speaking, BHVR makes the rules for their game, and they say that trying to stall games to force survivors to DC/hit the timer is bannable.
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We literally already have evidence saying that you're wrong. Refusing to chase or kill anyone while holding a 3-gen is against the rules.
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Mannn, I'll take THAT situation OVER being face camped or tunneled. At least when you're 3 gen, you come out with a decent amount of bloodpoints unlike when you're tunnled out of the game within the first 3 mins of the game you leave with less than 5k bloodpoints.
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TIL patrolling a 3 Gen is the Killer's fault and the Killer could be banned for it, according to Survivor mains.
What is the Killer supposed to do? Run to the strong pallets/the area without hooks/away from the gens? Just hand over the gens to Survivors?
Why is it not Survivors faults if they refuse to try doing gens? Oh, right, because nothing is Survivor's faults if they can use mental or verbal gymnastics to blame Killers.
So remember, Killers; if a 3 gen happens; You need to close your eyes and let Survivors go, because it's your fault and YOU can be reported! 😂
@Peanits Since Pulsar is quoting you so much to make their point; can you weigh in? Does the Killer have to stop patrolling a 3 gen? Can a Killer be reported and banned if they don't let Survivors do a gen?
If so: Why can't the Survivors be reported for not trying to do gens?
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Its funny that you use "progressing" first, but then switch to "playing" when it comes to the 3-Gen.
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Nonsense.
"What is the Killer supposed to do? Run to the strong pallets/the area without hooks/away from the gens? Just hand over the gens to Survivors?"
The Killer is supposed to progress the game.
"Why is it not Survivors faults if they refuse to try doing gens? Oh, right, because nothing is Survivor's faults if they can use mental or verbal gymnastics to blame Killers."
It is their fault and it is reportable. But if they try to do it, but the Killer just chases them away without any intention to commit to a chase, the fault lies with the Killer.
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Yes, it is a problem, but a problem that BHVR are fine with because SWF teams bring in a lot of money and a problem that enough killer players are willing to put up with. SWF is going away or even getting nerfed in the slightest unless enough killers stop playing the game to the point where queue times are unbearably long for survivors.
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This is BHVR’s own fault for designing a killer and map/gen layouts that allow to a game hostage in certain situations. If this is possible, then BHVR need to fix their game rather than ban players.
Honest question: have BHVR ever said anything about banning survivors who refuse to work on gens? It’s the exact same type of game hostage-taking as killers who won’t try to chase survivors in a 3-gen situation and it’s not all that uncommon.
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What your implying and what that message says are 2 different things though.
That post says nothing about refusing to chase, only refusing to kill, As well using doctor and tier 3 madness to stall out the game with intent, and specifies that it would only incur punishment in extreme situations.
There is a big difference between intentionally stalling the game in a 3 gen, and that ending up being the result of defending your 3 gen because everytime you get near the survivor runs to the hills expecting you to chase them.
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Playing is trying to progress the game they are interchangable terms in this context
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Iirc, yes, they have. After a certain amount of time, hiding and refusing to progress the game is against the rules, iirc.
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Tunneled will get you 5K BP through 5min match.
3 Gens get you 30k BP through 1 hour match.
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I feel that Killers here try to defend their 1 hour of 3 Gens strat. The wiki says as Killer, you patrol Gens to find survivor & start a chase and kill them.
What you're doing is go to Gen1 to injure and push them away, then go back to Gen2 and do exactly the same. Injured survivors healed up and go back to Gen1. Then what do you do next? Back to Gen1, injure them and go back to Gen 3?
Its a circle, there is no progressing.
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POV: You are a Survivor main because I disagree with you
Nobody is asking the Killer to throw. They are asking that the Killer not stall the game until the server closes.
Also, Survivors CAN be punished for hiding and refusing to progress the game.
So maybe stop with the whataboutism now that you have that answer?
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Notice the difference: "Sitting there with doctor and just shocking generators" that is entirely different than patrolling a 3 gen and not chasing survivors if they run to strong structures.
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The intent and goal for any player should not be to reach the server shutdown time.
Come on fam, that's a whole hour.
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That's not what StarLost said. They said, "If he's camping a 3gen from the start, making no effort to chase or anything and just stalling the game out "
You responded to that with, "You sound like the killers who think "looping" is an exploit."
Nobody mentioned just patrolling. It's refusing to chase people or progress the game.
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The Survivor Rulebook for Killers is starting to rival Encyclopedia Britannica.
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This thread summarized:
"Playing as doctor and making no effort to kill anyone and just shocking them for 2 hours is bannable."
"Patrolling a 3 gen and trying to win isn't bannable, though, as long as you're actually trying to win and not just stalling on purpose."
"Yeah, but playing as doctor and making no effort to kill anyone and just shocking them for 2 hours is bannable."
"Okay, but patrolling a 3 gen and trying to win isn't bannable, though, as long as you're actually trying to win and not just stalling on purpose."
"Yeah, but..." etc.
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Didn't they recently change it so it causes a disconnect for everyone in the match, not a 4K win for the killer? Not really sure which is worse, but I think I heard that.
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All the killer mains defending this meta were the same ones who were complaining about old dead hard being uncounterable. Uncounterable perks are only an issue when it affects killers I guess.
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The fact that the meta shake up affected both sides proves this statement to be objectively false. Ruin was absolutely trounced and Tinkerer was practically taken out back and shot.
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Its not about the perk, its about the theme of the perk.
Killer's 4 slowdowns were destroyed and replaced with other 4 slowdowns that even more broken.
Survivor's 2nd chance is mostly destroyed, forced them to use other perks.
I know you will coming with basekit BT, OTR, DH, but I can show you why 2nd chance is far weaker than before.
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The newer slowdown is not more broken. Not by a longshot. The only one stronger than before is Eruption.
The death of Old Undying / Ruin / Tinkerer/ Corrupt Intervention is and probably always will be the strongest killer meta ever, outside of the old Moris. That is why all four of those perks have been hit with the nerf bat.
Killers need gen regression to not lose the game in 5-7 minutes. That's just a fact. You cannot chase 4 survivors at once. As long as they split up, and do not run the killer into each other, this cannot be helped. It is part of the core game design.
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Wouldn't be a hard fix.
CoB: Down to 150%
Eruption: Blocks gens for 10s instead of incapacitated, no scream. 20s CD, but the perk now goes on CD when you kick a gen, and gens now explode regardless of CD.
Overcharge: 100 - 150% instead of 75 - 200%
Nowhere To Hide: 20s CD
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