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When is Iron Will gonna get buffed?
Honestly, it only works with survivors that barely make any noise. I’ve tried it on my main survivors but Yui,Claire,Leon and Vittorio are too loud and I can’t even hide anymore like the old days. I thought BHVR was gonna go through every survivor to make them more silent while using Iron Will, is that still gonna happen? Did anyone else also had to play as someone else just cuz their survivor main was too loud?
Comments
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Iron Will was too strong before but it really didn't need the double nerf. I'd be perfectly fine with it being back to 100% but just don't make it work when you're exhausted, actually makes you think about bringing an exhaustion perk.
14 -
I think there's a misconception here, we're adjusting the audio sounds so that survivors will have roughly equal sounds however, that might be an increase to some or a decrease to others, we did not say we were making survivors quieter.
Iron Will is not supposed to make survivors completely silent.
36 -
The best thing you can do is to equip "off the record" if you want to be completely silent.
You are completely silent when you are injured as long as the perk is active and that is long enough to heal you or find someone to heal you.
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“Iron Will is not supposed to make survivors completely silent”.
So all the killer has to do is turn up the volume on their headphones to completely counter this perk. Iron Will is useless now and there’s a good reason that it is rarely used anymore.
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I think it's fine. Otz has a video where IW really shines.
Also, why are we automatically assuming that every killer has a ten billion dollar headset?
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Iron will is fine as is. Plenty of plays from me where the killer still couldnt find me while crouched which makes me a bit more quiet.
9 -
If they want hearing damage from how loud everything else is in comparison.
For a game where you want players to use audio to find things, DbD has some aggressively loud music and SFX
22 -
Yeah just like Deadlock is useless only 30 seconds instead of 45. Right? Or Pain Resonance only 15% useless compared to 30% like it could have been.
Iron Will is a strong perk now changed from OP. It was changed for a reason.
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being 100% quiet for as long as you're injured without any activation condition was too strong in a game where audio is an important tracking tool
18 -
Honestly I use it on David sometimes and he is quite loud when injured and IW makes it much better imo. Only downside is it doesn't work when you're exhausted.
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And this will keep Iron Will useless. Unless there is 100% Noise Reduction, the Perk is not worth any Perk Slot, unless you are playing against Console-Killers who use their Speakers instead of a Headset.
The only thing this does (bringing Survivor sounds more in line) is removing uniqueness from Survivors.
6 -
IW was the survivor version of Spirits power. People asked the devs to nerf Spirits power, to make it easier to hear her, when phase walking. Then IW got the same treatment. Surprise!
People should be really more careful what they wish for. A nerf can be always applied to both sides for the same reason.
6 -
????
You can visually see survivors, they leave blood when injured & also scratch marks, this comparison is absolutely wild.
7 -
Spirit can see survivors during her phase walk?
Please, tell me more!
8 -
You - "Iron will was the survivor version of the spirits' power"
Me - "You can see survivors, their blood & scratch marks"
Clearly I'm talking about the comparison of IW vs Spirits Power which is that even with Iron Will active there are still several things that help you locate the survivor, unlike the Spirit Power, but keep up that deflection I guess.
7 -
IW made it extremely hard to spot a survivor with line of sight blockers. Which made the perk so popular and why streamers considered it the best survivor perk. Its users usually defended it with "mindgames". When there actually wasn´t a mindgame at all, because of the third person view and the heavy reliance of killers on sound.
Both scratchmarks and blood can be deceiving in most loops.
The phase walk of Spirit was heavily disliked by survivors for the same reasons. Because they couldn´t know if the Spirit was just standing at the pallet or running around. Spirit players defended this also as "mindgame" when it also wasn´t one.
By removing the completely silent phase walk, IW was bound to get nerfed as well.
Spirit pick rate and IW pick rate both dropped for the same reason. Because people were not able to "mindgame" anymore.
13 -
I rarely run Exhaustion perks so I run Iron Will a lot and even the nerfed version can give great value. Killers just don't expect it these days so you can get away with quite a lot.
I have to say though, I do miss old Iron Will
2 -
"IW made it extremely hard to spot a survivor with line of sight blockers"
What does this even mean? Are you implying a perk that affects sounds made it harder to physically see a survivor?
"Both scratchmarks and blood can be deceiving in most loops"
Is it or is it not useful information? Loops are so hilariously easy to keep track of survivors on that only a killer making a mistake would legitimately lose a survivor on one.
"The phase walk of Spirit was heavily disliked by survivors for the same reasons. Because they couldn´t know if the Spirit was just standing at the pallet or running around. Spirit players defended this also as "mindgame" when it also wasn´t one"
The issue with spirit is that you could still see her but she could literally be right next to you, a silent survivor can still literally be seen like, and tracked with other methods, absolutely nothing to do with sound whatsoever, the real truth is that most survivors just wanted some sort of animation flutter to signify when she started phasing, making it pretty obvious most didn't have an issue with the no sound. (probably why killer mains kept swearing blind that her glass shimmers when she phases)
"By removing the completely silent phase walk, IW was bound to get nerfed as well"
Again, there was nothing to signify a spirit was phase walking, the lack of sound on the survivor made you aware they had the perk and also there were other alternatives to tracking, unlike (you guessed it) the spirit.
"Spirit pick rate and IW pick rate both dropped for the same reason. Because people were not able to "mindgame" anymore."
Spirit pick rate dropped because she wasn't as easy to play, iron will dropped because of it being utterly useless to anyone with a $5 headset, being disabled while exhausted as well as having the sound reduction lessened means the perk literally doesn't do anything.
4 -
It won't get buffed because it's in a good state, though survivors are so hysterical about it they refuse to simply put it on and see how useful it remains.
7 -
Has everyone saying 'just use a headset and turn up the volume' ever actually tried that? Yes, you can hear muffled grunts of pain if you're looking out for them. You also hear every bit of ambient noise, the crackling of this flaming barrels over literally anything, and every loud noise is really loud. Including pallet stuns.
This isn't even getting into how overbearing the chase music gets. Especially Wesker's (appropriate, but holy ######### that's close to maxed out).
(And no, these aren't cheap headphones, they were actually quite pricey and picked for audio quality. If I turned my PC output over 1/3 at best, it'd actually be dangerous)
6 -
I think not having IW against Spirit is really a bad time (and no it does not matter if I can hear her as well if I do not have a pallet or a safe window I am dead because she can simply use md ring to be on me in 1 sec and I do not have time to hide and she can hear me).
Outside of that I am so used to playing without it these days
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What does this even mean? Are you implying a perk that affects sounds made it harder to physically see a survivor?
Is it or is it not useful information? Loops are so hilariously easy to keep track of survivors on that only a killer making a mistake would legitimately lose a survivor on one.
Your answer sounds like you don´t know what effect IW had and why it was so popular.
I´m afraid this discussion is pointless.
Have a good night.
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you comparing IW to spirits power sounds like you've never played this game before.
6 -
This perk is still decent. I guarantee most killers won’t hear you in chase or even when you’re nearby unless you’re playing like Jeff or Ash.
2 -
I think the game is less about hide and seek now and more chase + gen oriented so it makes sense to nerf IW the way it was.
Unfortunately, you just have to adapt to the way it is now. With some survivors, I still get immense value out of the perk. I still like running it. I don't mind it doesn't work while exhausted; I still get value almost every game. If you're playing louder survivors which all the ones you've listed and Ash are the loudest survivors in existence, it can be like you don't even have the perk on to which I also recommend Off the Record. You get the old IW effects for, I think, 90 seconds?
Might I also recommend Bite the Bullet + Self Care and a medkit? Before any assumptions are made, you don't have to fully self care and potentially be a detriment to the team - you can give yourself an insta old IW at will whenever the killer is approaching and you don't want to be spotted and then go back on your gen or whatever it was you were doing.
There are other things you can do if IW isn't working for you. Unfortunately, you do have to give up perk slots to make up for one but it's better than there being absolutely nothing out there to achieve old IW / stealth I think.
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Old Iron Will was insanely unhealthy design.
100% reduction, lasts infinitely, unconditional. That was beyond unacceptable.
Survivors having different sound levels is a bad thing. A survivor should not be a gameplay advantage to another.
9 -
Voices, volume etc. also make Survivors unique. And it is just fitting that a big guy like Jeff or Ash is louder than smaller characters.
Yeah, but it would have been enough to change Iron Will in a way that it gives perma-Exhaustion. This would mean that you cannot have a very strong Stealth-Perk AND a strong Exhaustion-Perk. But the Double-Nerf made it useless. Even if you cut the Exhaustion-Part, Iron Will would not be used, because anything below 100% Noise Reduction is pointless.
But, as said before - Iron Will is one Perk which got nerfed too hard to remove it from the Meta. Nothing more.
3 -
If it gave Perma exhausted status then it would never be used again.....lowring the sound reduction was a healthy direction to go since sound is the main way Killers have to find survivors and it totally countered Stridor. No perk should completely counter another like that..hinder it but not counter it
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Nah, you can still run it while perma-exhausted. You just cannot run an Exhaustion-Perk. But without 100% Sound Reduction, you do not even have to bother running Iron Will.
Regarding Stridor - this Perk was only used on one Killer. Even when Killers complained about Iron Will, they did not run Stridor on any other Killer than Spirit. So basing your argument on such a bad Perk-Design like Stridor is not really helpful.
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Please don't ruin my Ada. I love playing her with iron will. If the survivor volume change makes certain survivors louder, that'll just make iron will even more useless.
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This will happen. Loud Survivors will be more quiet and quiet Survivors will be louder.
And yeah, it sucks. And all of that just so that they can say that they changed the Meta.
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That's what I'm afraid of. Loud survivors that I like playing like Jane and Rebecca probably won't even be that much quieter, but semi silent survivors that can make use of current iron will perfectly like Ada, Ace and Claudette will be made louder for the sake of "equalizing" everyone.
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Shouldnt need to be buffed because they already said they're looking into the volume of survivors.
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People complain about Iron will not working while they are exhausted, if they wont run it with an exhaustion perk even though you still get value out of it most of the match, I can pretty much guarentee that 90% of people still wouldnt run your version.
Almost everyone overblows the 25% reduction, the perk is fine as it is, you still get plenty of value out it. Its just not OP anymore so it gets left by the wayside, its also less used because everyone just heals instead of staying injured anyways.
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Saying that most people would not run "my" version is a little bit funny considering that almost nobody runs Iron Will anyway. At least my version (100% reduction, but perma-exhausted) would be a change which can be tried. Might still be unpopular, but maybe more popular than current Iron Will.
And no, the 25% reduction is not overblown. What is the point of a Perk which should help with stealth, when it does not help with stealth? 75% Reduction might help against some crappy 5 Dollar-Headsets or Killers playing on Speakers, but any Killer who is at least somewhat decent will have a Headset which is good enough to hear you with new Iron Will.
1 -
Because "Help" does not mean "Perfect information hiding".
Which is for some reason what everyone wants to demand, because of this weird insistence that headphones are a magic wand that super magnify survivor grunts of pain and survivor grunts of pain alone. And not also 'random background audio that sounds kind of like a survivor grunt' or 'sound of grass moving that's loud enough to be notable and oh that was your own footsteps'.
Does it now work in an area of the map with no other sounds at all, with nothing else to pay attention to, against a Killer specifically listening for your grunts of pain? No, but on the other hand, that was stupid perk design when you had an audio-focused Killer.
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Giving up Exhaustion to have an infinitely lasting otherwise unconditional 100% reduction is still busted. If you want 100%, it needs to be temporary and more strictly conditional both. For example, Off the Record. Active for a limited time and only after being unhooked. Or Self-Preservation. Limited time and only after someone else takes a hit nearby.
1 -
They should buff it but honestly, if they did, I wouldn't use it anymore. We have other perks that do the same thing and with added bonuses.
0 -
The double nerf was disgraceful. They did the same to Ruin. Oh, people are using these perks too much, let's nuke them from orbit so no one touches them with a ten-foot pole. Incredible.
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Lets see because there was not at least 20 + ways to find iron will survivors before 6.1 as a killer I guess I should list them
Spies from shadow perk
Whispers perk
infectious fright
Aura reading perks= I am sure I do not have to list them cause there is that many
Pools of Blood
Scratch marks
killer instict=legion/triangle head/artist/neme/wesker
killer powers/add ons = huntress purple add on, wraith purple add on , spirit purple add on, scratch/vanity myers/amanda letter, blight add on(dont remember what it is called), oni purple add on , spirit add on (the add ons i mention of all these killers are aura reading stuff based with thier powers
General killers = doctor shock unless people using meme calm spirit /plague/neme power(coughing by both ) clown bottles unless people using meme calm spirit.
So with all this much stuff how again was iron will a problem? there how many add ons perks and even some killers kit who can find iron will survivors easy. LOL, Just dont touch bite the bullet please cause its just laughable of the excuse of iron will it just sound like a killer player who lacks eyes and ears to find people. I had no issue when I play killer finding iron will survivors before 6.1. Finally I do not care for spirit since most comments usually main excuse of the perk nerf tend to be it made spirit hard oh please, that killer takes 0 skill imo and Ill take a god nurse to beat me down in 10 seconds vs even an average spirit, at least with nurse I am most likely to predict when to juke her, spirit i just have to clasp my hands and pray.
4 -
I was honestly thinking this. While even I joke around saying someone has a million dollar headset, this game is SO FREAKING LOUD FOR NO REASON. Every little thing you do is ridiculously loud. If you tried playing with Mac volume in headphones, you would probably go deaf, especially with how Behavior apparently thinks extremely loud chase music is good chase music.
Just look at all the new chase music effects they've released recently and tell me how many of them haven't been ear drum erupting. Even Nurse and Hag's are just constant loud banging of random crap that makes it impossible to hear anything else in chase on BOTH sides.
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Nah, I'd take old dh than have IW go back to 100%. Perk just let survivors gets away with awful plays. Oh are you trying to mind game a tile? Don't mind if I hold w to the next one.
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Wesker gets a pass for actually being discernable as music aside from the volume.
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I agree with this decision. 👍🏻 good game design.
but please do not make them all EXACTLY the same if you can help it. Little nuances make the sound design feel more enjoyable.
example: crying, gasping, shuddering, wheezing, hacking, moaning, almost words, etc.
i know that makes the job harder, but if the sound designer devs can and are willing to make that happen it’d be very much appreciated by me. Even if others dont care. I care. Sound design is largely underrated.
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You got it! Too many survivors were too hung up on the 25% sounds they made and thusly called the perk "absolute garbage" and "totally worthless now. Trash!". Yeah, the killer HAS a chance to hear you now, which is fair, but its still very muffeled and faint, especially with the way the chase music is blasting into killers headphones. IW is still very strong and now that its not meta anymore you can catch a lot of killers offguard with your 25% sounds.
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You got it, the strong part is nobody expects it these days so you can pull of all kinds of crazy plays!
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It was one of the most overpowered perk in the game, injured survivors had no sound whatsoever
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Never, because IW is still good. It's just not OP anymore.
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That's not how sound works in this game. It also reduces the distance at which you hear these sounds. I can say from experience, that iron will can really mess up killers. It is less of a stealth perk now, and more of a looping/chase perk. Really really hard to tell if a survivor left the loop or not. Often you can not leave the loop, but the killer think you did, just because they can't hear you anymore. Giving you some good distance at that point.
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I just want to point out in general for those who dont know, DBD has a secret stamina mechanic. Lower your stamina, the louder your breathing and grunts of pain. If you want max chance to not be heard, dont run if the killer is nearby, crouching will also slightly reduce the volume.
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