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Why is camping Bubba still un-counterable?
You know something is busted when the only supposed counter to it is “just hang on the hook for 2 minutes to waste his time and hope your teammates do gens and escape”
Even perks like Reassurance and Kinship are only delaying the inevitable, Bubba isn’t an OP killer in most cases but in terms of camping potential he’s just plain unfair
how has it still not been addressed? Surely the devs don’t think being face camped for 2 minutes without any hope of rescue is balanced and fun?
Comments
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Because it's fairly difficult to fix in a way that won't be abused by either side.
18 -
The truth is: finding a solution that cannot be abused by either side is kinda tricky. In fact so tricky that no one has actually found a satisfying solution that problem yet aside from that white bar that charges if you hold your chainsaw. Yes it's annoying to deal with but also not the biggest issue IMO especially if you look at the current meta that is plagueing the game
4 -
Fair enough it may be hard to balance, but they could at least try. Maybe something like
“While in close proximity to a hooked survivor, after downing one person, any subsequent survivor hit by the same chainsaw sweep will be put into the deep wound state”
this would still allow trades like other killers and make some rescue’s possible
8 -
Easy there really isnt a good way to prevent face camping without screwing over normal play as of yet.
2 -
There is a counter, it’s called get better at looping Bubba.
Survivors don’t start the game on hooks.
8 -
I don’t know what kind of bot lobbies you play in, but generally speaking most survivors aren’t experiencing 5 gen chases in 100% of their games. Eventually someone’s gonna do down, there’s only a finite amount of pallets in a match
21 -
I like this idea a lot.
1 -
Yes, someone will eventually go down, but when said survivor goes down matters in the outcome of the match.
A Bubba will have more incentive to camp at 5 gens because there is enough time to see the camped survivor out of the game and pressure the remaining survivors afterwards. However if said survivor goes down after 2-3 gens have been done, the pressure is on Bubba. Camping the hooked survivor will probably mean a 1k in this situation. In order to turn the game around, the Bubba will have to consider leaving the hook to pressure more survivors.
Not all Bubba load into the game with the sole intention of camping one survivor out of the game, but some will use camping to help them get the 3/4k especially with passive perks like Corrupt and Deadlock to delay gen progress because it’s an easier strategy. The counterplay to this would be for the first chase to last much longer so that Bubba will have to decide between securing only one kill or pressuring the remaining gens and potentially lose the first hooked survivor.
2 -
It's...a bit better than it was, but yeah - still brutal.
Bubba needs a rework.
2 -
Could work.
They should at least try something rather than just allowing it to continue.
3 -
Best idea I've heard is to spawn the survivor on another hook across the map if the Bubba is too close. Just like how survivors are spawned across the map to another cage if a pyramid head comes too close.
If anyone didn't know this, the "cage" timer is actually paused for a few seconds when the survivor relocates to another cage. Giving survivors more time to unhook them.
If this is implemented, they should make it so a hooked survivor stays put when all 5 gens are done, though.
Unsure how to deal with basement hooks though. And unsure if this could be too beneficial for survivors (or the dreaded SWFs) purposefully baiting the bubba to be near the hook, so another survivor can get an easy across the map unhook.
4 -
Because Bubba's not that popular, and being able to guarantee 1 kill isn't that big of a deal. Pointless to waste development time on this IMO.
1 -
Sadly if certain rumours are true, it's unlikely they'll -ever- change Bubba.
0 -
Because Bubba camping is game throwing. Your team has to massively screw up for him to get a 4K, even with Deadlock.
You know why people REALLY hate Bubba camping? Because SWFs are obsessed with the four man escape. Absolutely obsessed. They froth at the mouth if they can't save their last man. Drives them insane.
When my friends and I play, we are happy for one of us to throw ourselves on the grenade for the 3 man escape.
But the hardcore SWFs will REEEEEEEEE about "counterplay".
8 -
Why should someone change that?
Think about it... the killer gains nothing from it. He gets no Chasepoints, he has only one hook into sacrifice, loses 5 gens pretty fast and is close to the hook.
Of course its annoying for the one surv to be on hook all game, but damn even with this one kill the Bubba is just getting stomped. If i get facecamped, i am sitting there, hoping for my mates to be fast enough to finish the last gens and escape.
bubba hopes for Mates coming for the rescue, but if it never happens, maybe they will some day learn how to play :D
1 -
This. 😂 the amount of games that ended up being a 4k simply because they all died to altruism. Coulda been a 3 out…. But they wanted to get their last man.
6 -
Well that is reasanoble idea but what would be the range of this effect?
0 -
Rarely survivors finish all 5 gens in 2 minutes. Deadlock should prerry much quarantee 2K maybe even 3-4K if you use noed as well.
7 -
Yeah, I see this fallacious argument a lot.
You need to count the 2 minutes from the time of the hook, not start of match. I can easily lose gens BEFORE I ever touch that hook with Bubba. If say, 3 gens pop because it was a 90 second chase, then they only have to do 2 gens in those 2 minutes.
3 -
The solution is very simple actually: make the chainsaw sweep stop after the first hit. Done.
4 -
Congratulations, you've turned Bubba into a Billy that can't run.
7 -
I'm just suprised Reassurance is still that underated... Good.
0 -
Nice way to expose that you haven't played Bubba friendo. Does billy have unlimited turning in his chainsaw? Can billy control his chainsaw movement in any direction at any time, letting him moonwalk and mindgame? Does billy have addons that get wallhacks on survivors when charging his chainsaw, or give his saw built in Franklin's, or recharge his power to max like alchemist ring when he hits someone? He doesn't need multidowns.
3 -
It's not truly uncounterable. It's certainly very hard to counter, but I have had games where survivors managed to pull hook trades vs a face camping leatherface leading to 2+ survivors escaping at the end.
0 -
Exactly this, and this is why I love him
3 -
nah
3 -
Well you need good first chase that's all. Wasn't average first chase like 40s so let's assume you perform at least that so usually only one gen pops when survivors work it together. Then it's 120s for them to do 4 gens. Usually at least one comes to check if bubba is camping so that is less times on gens. Once that camped survivor dies it's usually 1 gen left which is soon to be done but that should be enough to get someone down and hooked. 3vs1 is lot easier to turn to your advantage so once you have one survivor on hook and last gen pops then and you can go find another and down with noed which usually catch them bit off quard as they expect you to camp. Then it's just finding the last one who usually just leaves at that point.
1 -
It's very much counterable with perks, just bring Deliverance and don't get hooked first then go pull the person off the hook and unhook yourself at the last second. If done properly you waste 3 minutes of their time and they have basically nothing from the facecamp
1 -
"Nice way to expose that you haven't played Bubba friendo."
Dude, what?
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This entire paragraph both:
A.) Hinges on the team being stupid
and
B.) Acts under the assumption that perk existence is relevant to gameplay balance.
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Deliverance requires a “safe hook rescue”, something you can’t really do if a Bubba is face camping
Remember he can hit multiple survivors with the same chainsaw sweep, not only downing the un-hooker but even catching up to the recently unhooked survivor EVEN after hitting BT/ OTR thanks to his increased movement speed during a chainsaw sweep
Or he’ll just chainsaw you before you even get a chance to unhook
Also your entire premise is based on bringing one perk every single game for the off chance you encounter a Bubba, which like I’ve pointed out wouldn’t necessarily work anyway if he’s truly face camping, not just proxy camping
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You forgot to mention that the Bubba in your example must be bot enough to:
- Allow the unhook to ever happen, thing that he can deny altogether;
- Let the unhook be a safe one on top of that. Again, something that he can deny given his ability to double hit through the unhook endurance and speed boost.
Just bringing X perk to band-aid design flaw Y is essentially a non-suggestion. Neither killers nor survivors should be forced to do it.
Congratulations, you just ignored all the other differences between Billy and Bubba.
2 -
None that matter. And the ones that do would still put Billy ahead of Bubba.
The whole point of Bubba is he has the ability to threaten a whole area immediately around his person, but he lacks mobility.
The whole point of Billy is a singular directional attack, but at high speed.
Take away the speed and Bubba is Billy with a sprained ankle that doesn't struggle to curve.
0 -
Thats the equivalent of saying "just down Survivors faster, gens dont start all completed"
5 -
And if you dont have Deliverance?
0 -
This. It should be a staple rule for hooks and general and done immediately on hook, even if it’s a basement hook. Obviously can’t be done in a vacuum and killers would need to be buffed too but fun first. This is a major issue that’s never been resolved because people are looking to solve every problem in one go rather then make incremental progress. Game is notoriously imbalanced anyway, crying over having it be temporarily imbalanced is like crying over spilled milk.
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Here's the thing: In its current state, bubba's power isn't good for winning games. It is only good for ruining them. The face camping strat in its purest form is a guaranteed 1k and all other survivors can escape basically 100% of the time. But in the entire game, who was able to have fun? All the potential fun around doing gens is thrown away when you know the killer is just standing still for 2 min. There is no real danger or excitement. For whoever is on the hook, it's really boring. you made one mistake and now you get to do nothing until you die. As Bubba, you got one down and are simply staring at the hooked survivor. This is all at the choice of the killer. The survivors can make all the right choices to make it as fun as possible and still don't get a fun experience. The survivors can make it worse. By TRYING to engage with the game's mechanics and do hook rescues, the survivors make it worse. By giving up on hook, survivors make it worse.
So why is this so common? Why do so many bubba players do this? Because there is no other reason to play Bubba besides toxic facecamping. That's all his power is really good for. The key part of his power that offers something no other killer has is that it is good at downing clumped up survivors. Sure, oni can get a solid slam after a big wind up, but it has only a few frames and it stops the oni in its tracks. Billy can use an add on to mow through a group, but again, this is a short window that can be dodged. Bubba's attack last 7 calendar years and keeps mowing through any and all survivors. But when can a Bubba ever make that relevant? Nobody with a brain cell is going to try and form a body block train against a Bubba. The only time Bubba can actually hit that fantasy of his power is by facecamping.
Instead of being an insta-down, maybe his power should apply a deep wound with like a 1.5 second timer (with additional chainsaw hits chewing through the remaining deep wound timer). It would recenter the game around chases, and it would allow room for behavior to buff other aspects of bubba without just making him a better face-camper/slugger.
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I agree that the issue is complex if you're trying to target a specific thing like face camping at 5 gens.
But I think a much simpler thing like 'add 10 seconds to every hook stage' or 'match hook stages to gen times' would go a lot farther to reduce camping by making the practice less efficient without being directly abusable by anyone.
I'm also convinced that there's no carrot, stick, or mechanic that will fix the issue in the long run. The only way to really deal with it is to make other play styles more efficient, or camping less efficient, and players will gravitate away from it naturally.
1 -
Why is it that they can't just make his power not work within however many meters of the hook? I'm sure there must be a reason?
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Who even knows man, it sure doesn't help that a lot of ppl are ok with it. Pinheads chains were fr changed to prevent camping w them as if it matters in the slightest but apparently bubbas situation is fine
1 -
Everything you said is correct
1 -
A smart Wes can also camp and hold the team hostage. Or any other killer for that matter. When you are too altruistic and go in for the save you lose time as you are not on gens.
The only rework is to remove the sweeping or make it effective against surv not multiple.
0
