General Discussions

General Discussions

Tunneling and Camping

Member Posts: 2
edited January 2023 in General Discussions

Hey heres he hard but true meaning ur game sucks more and more du finally something against tunneling and camping it isnt that hart to do something against it, like a timer stop on hook if the killer still stays near u or like the cage from Pyramidhead teleport the hooked one away , but in this state this game sucks rly hard nearly every round a tunneling killer and/or a camping killer, if u are serious to ur self no one has fun with it in this state .... and the penalty for leaving a game sucks too my game crashed hey a penalty it crashed multiple times hey more and higher penaltys ....

Post edited by BoxGhost on

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  • Member Posts: 3,551

    Yeah but those should not be most viable stragedies that is the biggest problem. Stragedies which show skill should be more viable. 8 hooking everyone before killing probably will never be most viable stragedy but something in the middle ground should be.

  • Member Posts: 5,598

    Also the Devs won't read this cause of the way you put it.... try being nicer

    They tried that "pausing the hook stage" but that was turned into a weapon

    Camping shouldn't be in the game (but I understand why it is)

    Tunneling only comes down to the fact that the Game can be over before the Killer gets 4 separate hooks

    How can the Killer show skill by getting 4 hooks and all the Gens are done... since it's Kills that matter (just like escaping is the only thing looked at) in terms of MMR

  • Member Posts: 6,434

    Why because I don’t support easy braindead

    playstyles?

    Tell me you camp without telling me you camp.

    Telling me your “survivor version” or equivalent to camping does not take away the fact that it takes 0 skill to idle at a hook. Which is what it is.

    I never brought up generators nor attempted to make a comparison. I am merely saying that saying you out-gamed a survivor because you had so much skill as to let go of your mouse button in order to stand still is not a skill. That’s just a fact.

  • Member Posts: 3,322

    I mean technically survivors not in chase who are on gens aren’t showing skill. But like… neither is hook camping. In either situation the player is trying to create a viable path to victory. But survivors don’t just win by m1ing gens, while a killer can quite often snowball by camping one person.

  • Member Posts: 5,500

    One thing that a lot of people seem to overlook since patch 6.1 is BBQ. Many survivors stated that they hated seeing BBQ every match, but it was actually one of, if not the most healthy perk in the game. Nearly every killer had it equipped for the BP bonus, and as if on accident it also showed every killer all kind of opportunites after hooking someone, peeling them away from the hook without forcing them. Yes, camping occured back then too, but BBQ gave a killer a new target, showed them opportunity and thus kept the game going.

    I would propose to find some way to punish killers for camping and tunneling, but also (and especially) giving them a smol BBQ basekit, ie show them the aura of one survivor when hooking someone and giving them a speedboost of +15% as long as they are moving in the general direction of that survivor, outside of a chase and 16m away from their targeted survivor. This would give killers a big incentive to go hunting instead of camping and even allow slow non-mobility killers to do so without hurting themselves.

    Also, maybe we could give killers a one time score event when they hook all four survivors, making this a sort of secondary objective like back in the old days of BP BBQ, and maaaaybe give them a small 15s Entity blocks all gens once every survivor is hooked once and another time once everyone is hooked twice with everyone being still alive, rewarding the killer for spreading the love instead of focusing one down.

    Essentially we must make playing for 12 hooks worth the killers time AND not sabotaging themselves totally in the process. Low skill killers would then still camp, but others could try to go for fun games again, especially when they don't end after 3 chases.

  • Member Posts: 3,268

    Isnt the skill expression for tunneling "winning a chase twice on the same target" (regardless if there was a different hook, according to some survivors)

    So lets punish free choice of target and ddoing the thing survivors deem the best part of the game(chases)? Uh, what?

    Failed to hide twice, lost two chases and optionally got unhooked right in the killers face; doesnt sound like a killer skill issue to me.

  • Member Posts: 1,129

    More incentive needs to be given to justify not tunneling/camping such as several Killer basekits (Mini Corrupt Intervention/Deadlock/Grim Embrace etc)

    There is a good reason why the developers have not made tunneling or camping actual bannable offenses but instead introduce perks/basekits to counter such strategies.

    If a ban wave was handed out for campers and tunnelers, Survivor queue times would see a huge spike and players would complain again.

  • Member Posts: 3,551

    Focus between couple survivors is already spreading some hooks and showing much more skill than just tunneling one survivor and ignoring everyone else anyone can do that easily so it requires much less skill than other stragedies.

  • Member Posts: 4,658

    We had a second chance perk meta before 6.1. What we have today is nothing of the sort. Instead of anti-tunnel and anti-camp measures clogging up survivor load-outs, we now have Prove Thyself cropping up as one of the most common perks.

    But hey, that's what killers wanted, right? After all, any survivor that complains about tunnelling or camping will immediately get shouted down and told to 'git gud' since poor widdle killers have screwed up their own MMR by resorting to crutch tactics, and then subsequently complain about how unfair the game is when they've become dependent on those crutches.

    You want camping and tunnelling to stay in the game? Then don't whinge about how YOU, personally, can't 12-hook. Because that is what you wanted to balance for.

    People often say that if tunnelling and camping go, killers need compensatory buffs. The flipside of this is that if tunnelling and camping stay, survivors need compensatory buffs.

  • Member Posts: 2,885

    Well they won't make it a bannable offense is because they themselves have said they are valid strats when used correctly

  • Member Posts: 3,551

    Making the other side feel miserable just one reason why. Something more fun for both sides should be viable. Even most killers probably feel bad using these stragedies but because they're the best options to win so they use them.

  • Member Posts: 7,771

    Some people try to eliminate 1 person/multiple people as fast as possible in a game where the killer objective is to eliminate people as fast as possible.

    Wild.

  • Member Posts: 8,077
    edited January 2023

    Uh...

    Okay, not quite sure what I read here.

    • Some killers are too good at camping and/or tunneling folks off hook.
    • Bubba, Billy & co. need a rework, because these are killers that aren't much fun to play against a good team unless you camp and tunnel.
    • Clown's <redacted> trick to bypass Endurance needs a fix.
    • However, if you want high MMR/tourney gameplay, you aren't going to win against a strong team on a strong map unless you tunnel someone out.

    If you watch this game played at the highest level - and that's with some pretty severe handicaps on survivors (limited items, perks, killer sided map), replace 'best' with 'only'.

    And in this case it's winning against other killers on points - by getting 1-2 kills.

    Yes, not every team you face is a crazy SWF - but the possibility that the next one might be, and by the time you know you've already lost...yeah, best to play hard.

    Part of this comes down to how stupidly survivor BP/emblem gain works.

    The 'distraction' BP/points you gain are pathetic. If you're chased from the start with LP, and then tunneled, you're getting 8k BP max and depipping, even if the others finished 5 gens while this went on.

    If you get camped, it's worse - because you get literally nothing for staying on the hook, and you may as well just suicide if it's a solo game.

    That needs to be fixed.

    Post edited by StarLost on
  • Member Posts: 81

    Unfortunately, tunneling/camping isn't an issue I think BHVR will ever address again b/c it's too complicated. Too many killers already complain that it's survivor sided and since most of them don't have the actual skill to chase, they are just happy with how things are for them. But, a lot of my friends stopped playing dbd b/c it wasn't fun getting camped/tunneled in like 70% of matches in solo survivor queue.

  • Member Posts: 368

    Super late to the Convo but how many in this thread consider themselves superb loopers?

  • Member Posts: 485

    Survivors GOT 'buffs for camping/tunneling'; Basekit BT. But that's not enough, no. They will whine and scream until the developers make them literally immune to damage. Give an inch, and they take a mile.

    Of course, with basekit BT came weaponizing it to bodyblock Killers from chasing unhookers; You know, the literal thing Survivors whine Killers never do. And, of course, Survivors then whine that they were 'tunneled' and demand tunneling punishments, nerfs, and more Survivor buffs to compensate for playing badly, I mean being 'tunneled'.


    No, Survivors don't need MORE buffs 'if tunneling stays'. This is literally Survivors bodyblocking and trying for unsafe unhooks, then complaining when they get smacked down, as if their bad plays are a flaw in the game.

    Accept that your opponent can play to win as hard as you can as a Survivor. Stop demanding Killers get kneecapped for 'my vague and entirely subjective fun!' 🙄

    Give Survivors bonus BP for being camped. Make something like 'Your wriggling distracts the Killer form his true goals'. The longer camped, the more BP gained.

  • Member Posts: 8,077

    Eh...it's not that simple.

    The problem is that those buffs/anti tunneling/camping mechanics can be completely negated by some killers.

    All that really needs to be done is fix the handful of killers that can bypass BT. Bubba's double sweep hit, Clown's trick etc.

  • Member Posts: 4,658

    Survivors GOT 'buffs for camping/tunneling';

    They got one buff and two nerfs. DS got removed and gens got slowed down, both feeding into tunnelling and camping as more effective strategies.

    But hey, that's exactly what you asked for! 'Second chance' perks gutted, and tunnelling and camping get to stay and even get buffed! That's great, right?

    Oh right, now you have to deal with a genrush meta, since actually punishing camping and tunnelling is disallowed. Oh well, I'm sure you'll deal with that as the consequence of getting exactly what you asked for, right? You'll probably not be back on the forums to cry about how the game has become worse from BHVR doing exactly what you told them to!

  • Member Posts: 1,725
    edited January 2023

    Whether or not camping and tunneling requires "skill" is irrelevant. Sometimes it's just the right thing to do if you want to win a game, strategically.

    What I will say is that players who find a survivor who is weaker than them in chase and immediately hook them, proxy them, head directly for them after unhooks and give zero wiggle room even at 5 gens are extremely boring to face. Sometimes they'll hit as the survivor gets unhooked to trigger Deep Wounds and deny DH.

    I just don't see how that is fun. Solo teams don't have the communication and efficiency to counter that.

  • Member Posts: 6,434
    edited January 2023

    It is relevant to the concept of skill and strategy. I am not saying every single scenario fits into what is warranted as "The right thing to do" because sometimes it is also "The lazy thing to do" , and that is the path of willingly just using easy/free pressure because the game allows you to regardless of it's unbalance core problems.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. I really DO NOT care whether people fall into the "Goes back to hook immediately" "Idles at hook" "Insta tunnels the minute someone gets pulled off" categories, I really don't. I am just arguing the piece where people think this is SKILL. Exactly how many braincells does it take to actually pull that off? Balance camping out and then I'll agree with being the "right" thing to do. Until then survivors get scraps like 7% speed and 5s BT which can easily be baited, and reliance on perks in order to soft counter this core problem.

    You realize that this same scenario you think killers have "The right thing to do", survivors don't have that, at least not the hooked person. They don't get to decide if they can just take advantage of a "core game design" to counter Camping or Tunneling, they have to bring the same perks in order to have a chance. I'll just leave it at that.

  • Member Posts: 1,667

    2 nerfs? DS wasn't nerfed but fixed (remember that when it was released ds stunned for 3 seconds, which could be mitigated even more thanks to enduring, then the devs proceeded to buff DS to 5 seconds and later nerfing enduring, forgetting in the meantime to revert the DS stun back), but even nerfed this perk is extremely useful and timewasting for the killer, especially when paired with OTR and Dead Hard. Gens despite the 10 seconds added now feels more fast to do because the recently released perks allow a survivor to complete a generator in lesser time than before (a survivor with hyperfocus, stake out and a green toolbox can finish a gen in less than 45 seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYnLWrbGexg)

  • Member Posts: 301

    Here. Let's removed exhaustion from Headon. Let's make it so the most viable strategy is to have two survivors just chain stun the killer at two lockers while the other two get the gens done. It'll be the most viable and simply strategy in the game. Why not?

    Oh, right, because one person doesn't get to play the game then. That's why not. I know most killers can't see beyond their own sweaty need to 4k every single game without effort, but try thinking about someone other than yourself for once in your life.

  • Member Posts: 4,658

    Nope, DS stunned for 5 when it released. Then it was nerfed to 4, then to 3 when the unhook requirement was added. Then it was buffed to 5, and it got rebalanced in that position by adding the conspic action nerf.

    But I don't know why I'm explaining this. Because there's no way you are legitimately dumb enough to think that a 40% stun duration cut is a 'fix' but not a nerf, especially since the perk had maintained this form for THREE YEARS without any issue.

    And good luck using Stakeout with a camping killer.

  • Member Posts: 710


    I like this line of thinking, but it's not going to cause any sort of significant dent in tunneling unless whatever incentive is given to killers is more substantial than making the game a 3v1. Tunneling someone out basically stops all gen pressure if the killer is good (one hooked, one saving, one being chased). If the incentive not to tunnel isn't at least as good as that, killers (who want to win) will simply continue to tunnel.

  • Member Posts: 7,976

    Imo all that needs to happen is that survivors need to be punished more from getting hooked and the difference between 3 and 4 survivors need to be lessened drastically

    A survivor on dead hook repairs gens just as fast as a survivor who hasn't been hooked. That really promotes focussing them out. If a hooked survivor was slower at repairing gens then it might be better to spread that debuff first before removing people

    Simular the difference between 3 and 4 survivors is huge. If survivors got some kind of desperation bonus when somebody is dead then getting someone out asap without debuffing the others might not be the most optimal outcome

    Tunneling exist cause it's the most efficient. It's usually not something personal or a cheap tactic. It is by a logical standpoint just the most efficient way to play.

    Make spreading hooks more efficient and tunneling will be lessened drastically

  • Member Posts: 710
    edited January 2023

    This will only work if hooking 3 different survivors debuffs them so much that all 4 survivors' combined repair speed is that of 3 survivors, otherwise tunneling is still more efficient.

    Edit: No, actually it would need to debuff them more than that, because once 3 survivors are left, the killer can often reduce the gen pressure to zero because all survivors are hooked, saving, or being chased.

  • Member Posts: 2,638

    Terrible example. The Head On thing does not advance the win condition. Your comparison is flawed from the onset.

  • Member Posts: 8,266

    Old 2nd chances were like this:

    1-You hit once

    2-You miss a Deadhard

    3-You hit twice

    1st hook

    4-You hit BT (can ignore through timer)

    5-You miss a Deadhard

    6-You hit twice

    7-Eat DS or Unbreakable

    8-You hit thrice

    2nd hook

    9-You hit BT (can ignore through timer)

    10-You miss a Deadhard

    11-You hit twice

    Last hook


    New 2nd chances are like this:

    1-You hit once

    2-You hit a Deadhard

    3-You hit twice

    1st hook

    4-You hit BT, this will remove both Deadhard & Off the record

    5-You hit twice

    6-Eat DS (because DS is so weak killers willing to eat through, Unbreakable was strong because of DS was strong) which more inferior to prenerf DS

    2nd hook

    7-You hit BT, this will remove both Deadhard & Off the record

    8-You hit twice

    Last hook


    How can killers struggles more than before is quite questionable.

  • Member Posts: 1,700

    How to fix it? Buff the useless killers in the chase, reward them for chases, not for Hook-Camping etc.

  • Member Posts: 7,976

    Not nececarily.

    If you tunnel someone you're still leaving 3 other survivors free reign of gens. Which can backfire immensely.

    I also don't think tunneling should be completely removed from the game. There needs to be some form of vulnerability that urges the survivor to play it more safe the closer to death they become.

    The goal shouldn't be that every game becomes a 9 hook before someone is death either.

    Getting a player out of the game should still be a big deal, just not as big as it is now

  • Member Posts: 1,725
    edited January 2023

    There's lots of ways to deal with a camping killer. The most effective is slamming gens for 100 seconds to finish them. If it's early, get 1 or 2 gens done, do a trade, then do it all over again. I agree it's unfun mechanically, but I think we're too deep to rework hooks, hook stages, etc entirely to remove camping and tunneling.

    4 living survivors that aren't pressured to heal to stay alive can complete generators very quickly, that's why high mmr revolves around tunneling and camping. It's too tall of an order to rework hooks completely to remove this.

    What's the solution? When you hook a survivor, they get teleported to a random hook on the map, which you can't see? When they get unhooked, they gain basekit Off the Record and Decisive? If you dislike getting tunneled, bring Deli/DS/OtR/DH, if you dislike people camping, bring Reassurance. Almost none of these perks require skill to use, but they counter tunneling and camping to an extent.


    Also the BT is 10 seconds and 10% now if you aren't aware.

  • Member Posts: 1,667

    For your logic then the old MoM was a Fair perk when it was released. Just because a perk was released in a certain way doesn't mean that It was fair or balanced. It's a fix because It wasn't supposed to stun the killer for so much time, the only reason It was modified so lately was because they gutted the previous meta (and killer players were asking for a long time some modifications to that perk because It was easily abusable by Survivors). Are you that dumb to think that ds Is useless right now? i guess that you don't play at high mmr then...

  • Member Posts: 4,658
    edited January 2023

    No, listen...

    The first DS was 5 seconds and had no limitations or requirements. That was broken as heck.

    Then it got nerfed to 3 seconds and required an unhook. But Enduring cut the stun too much, so it got buffed to 5 seconds.

    But with that duration it was too strong because it allowed survivors to work on gens and still have DS up. So then they added the conspic action nerf.

    And that is the way it stayed for years. And it was fine, with one exception: It needed to have its EGC usage cut, because that was unfair. Because guess what? Outside of that EGC situation, if you get hit by DS, you have made a string of mistakes that deserves to be punished.

    Everyone knew that. All you had to do was switch target. Not chase the freshly unhooked. Not pick them up. It is the single most avoidable perk in the game.

    Only the EGC thing was asked for by killers. -No one- asked for the stun to be cut down to 3 seconds. Because it didn't make sense.

    3 seconds was fine back when it allowed survivors to just do a gen in the killer's face without risk. It's not fine now that it only works if the killer hard-tunnels you. The DS that got its stun duration increased to account for Enduring is not the same DS as the one that got cut by 40% after getting its last abusable situation pruned.

    Are you that dumb to think that ds Is useless right now? i guess that you don't play at high mmr then...

    The only reason DS holds any value is because getting downed clears deep wounds, allowing it to re-trigger other perks. Its stun is negligible for it still being one of the most avoidable perks.

  • Member Posts: 761

    I'm starting to think that survivors think they are entitled to 3 hooks each game

  • Member Posts: 5,598

    Ok so instead taking care if the illness lets focus on the symptoms.... sounds good fellas (sarcasm)

    Making the penalty of multiple Survivors on a Gen bigger (on one side)

    And then making Regression do more (basekit)

    Or they can make Gens have cheakpoints... once reached they need to put a part into the Gen

    And then either add more regression basekit (also fixing the perks around this)

    Cause it's the Maps and Progression VS Regression that are the true causes for Camping and Tunneling

  • Member Posts: 6

    both camping and tunneling are valid strategies especially with how one sided this game is you ask for incentives or counter measures against that killer play style well as a player who equally plays killer and survivor I want a way to prevent getting bullied by a four man swf every game.

  • Member Posts: 4,658

    No, they're not. That's just the same old killer spiel of using tunnelling and camping as a beatstick.

    "Change the game, or else I'll tunnel!"

    "Throw the match and maybe I'll stop camping!"

    "I might tunnel less if survivors got a few more nerfs!"

    We heard it before. The devs acted on it before. It only got worse. Tunnelling and camping need direct, targeted nerfs to make them sub-par/non-viable playstyles.

    5 second stun DS baseline (also no collision while it's up), and Reassurance goes back to a 40 second CD, just with 3/4/5 tokens per match.

  • Member Posts: 5,598

    I can agree that DS does need to go back....

    But still.... Regression being what it is causes Killers to bring more regression perks

    For some Killers they do Camp and Tunnel cause they can't deal with 4 Survivors and Progression... and the t-bags at the end with no sympathy... and GGEZ

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