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5 Easy Things To Remove That Would Make The Game 100% Better.

StarLost
StarLost Member Posts: 8,076
edited January 2023 in Feedback and Suggestions
  1. Hook grabs. These have always been silly, aren't much fun for anyone and far too often turn unhooks into a 'you rolled a 1 and now it's a 4k' frustration chain.
  2. Kobes. 99% of the time it's just suicide, and an easy way to bail on a match without getting a penalty. 1% of the time, it's really, really frustrating for the killer. Rework perks and addons as needed.
  3. Useless addons and offerings. I swear, far too much of my BP goes into stuff that is either really bad, or straight up handicapping myself.
  4. No Mither. Just...get rid of it and give David something that isn't essentially a 'we lose' button. I swear, this adept is a team killer.
  5. Knockout. This perk has almost no practical use and is only really utilized to grief solo queue players. Replace it with something better, and healthier.
Post edited by Rizzo on
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Comments

  • Iron_Cutlass
    Iron_Cutlass Member Posts: 3,866
    edited January 2023

    I use Knockout on stealth builds that way I can chain downs, it's been really effective on Spirit if you pair it with Monitor and Abuse, but I still wish they did something else with the perk to make it more fun or unique tho, I just wanted to say there are people who use it for something else other than slugging people to death.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,076

    I think that's the first time I've heard of Knockout being used practically.

  • OneGoodBoyDemo
    OneGoodBoyDemo Member Posts: 473

    Indeed, something needs to be done about addons and offerings because most of them are useless and do not impact the trial at all. it's just waste.

  • Iron_Cutlass
    Iron_Cutlass Member Posts: 3,866

    I use a lot of perks in weird ways.

    For example, I use Tinkerer with Merciless Storm since Survivors are forced to commit to generators with Merciless Storm (and since Survivors tend to focus a lot on the Skill Checks), it lets me get some pretty easy grabs on Survivors.

    I think DBD has a lot of variety in terms of what you can do with perks, a lot of players are just afraid to experiment or try new things.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,076
    edited January 2023

    This.

    Although I've never figured out why. XD

    If you're bailing on 85% of your games, that's a you problem. And you're ruining the match for 4 other people every time. Not being nasty, but maybe...play something else for a bit? It doesn't sound like you're enjoying DbD right now.

    Far, far too often 'not fun' means 'I might not win' from my experience - and even as an awful survivor, I've seen solo matches turn around pretty hard.

    Nobody is forcing you to play. But endlessly quitting matches until you get one that you can win is...just dirty pool.

    It's a cute combo, and I'm also someone that plays around with odd perk combinations (stealth Wesker is legitimately great). But...Merciless isn't that punishing if you fail it and it only triggers 5x a match. I'd love to use it more, but it's just on the weaker side.

  • bm33
    bm33 Member Posts: 8,404

    Deleting Knock Out would be my dream. I've said before if they won't delete it then they should change Knock Out to apply the effects when a survivor is injured and have it last until the survivor is downed or healed. This change would make it so it's not longer used to grief solos with slug until bleedout builds and would counter aura reading perks while in a chase.

    Kobes should really only be a last resort thing, like multiple survivors are hooked at once so entity is stepping in to give survivors some hope that it can feed off of. Outside that it really is an unnecessary mechanic and if they got rid of Kobes it could finally be removed from the tutorial so new players don't think they're supposed to attempt escape and be a 2 hook survivor.

    If they won't remove the useless stuff atleast have an option to trade them in. Luck is completely useless but I have a ridiculous amount of luck offerings and that's with me trying to avoid them.

    No Mither is mostly used as either a meme that sabos the team or as a bully squad avoiding being hooked. It can definitely go. We have perk bloat and there's alot of perks that could definitely go and they won't be missed.

    Hook grabs should go, or at the very least hook grabs on healthy survivors. Make it so unhooked survivor loses collision so killer has a better chance at downing the unhooker.

  • healsoflove718
    healsoflove718 Member Posts: 81

    And who cares if you die on the first hook, camping/tunneling is encouraged and not something that is frowned upon anyway, so killers get those kill points/bloodpionts... /shrugs .. if anything, they should be thanking us.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,076
    edited January 2023

    Camping...yeah, it sucks. But I don't think I see anywhere near that frequency, either on my games or other streams.

    Tunneling - I don't mind. It gives me a lot of practice looping.

    A quick instadown? That's...just Ghostface. You need an early down and fast. That's...fine?

    I absolutely get annoyed because now I'm going to depip and have to play a losing match out, or play out a boring guaranteed win as killer. It ruins games.

    And the other three survivors?

    I'm sorry, I'm not buying '40% of games have a camper'. Because even before 6.1.0, outside of the endgame it happened...maybe 5% of the time. And I haven't seen a hard camper in a week.

    Post edited by Rizzo on
  • IIITweedleIII
    IIITweedleIII Member Posts: 1,018

    I been saying for years now, let there be a redeemable for BP any low tier offerings. Now considering prestiging anymore the web doesn't recall items and offerings at all anymore and they all stack and pile up. So why not redeem them at all for bloodpoints. As for Kobe I thi k you meant the attempt at it. It oughta be a better percentage than just at 4% but other than that it oughta to be at two attempts and after if the kobe doesn't happen just disallow anymore attempts. And continue allowing to bleed out on first hook. Til it runs out as normal. Like a Gen pop takes progress away a slight bit. After two attempts you just wait til rescue or bleed out the rest of the way into struggle hook.

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,695

    What possible good does the game have from "person might randomly yeet self off hook" existing?

  • LuthirFontaine
    LuthirFontaine Member Posts: 375

    I think it would help with camping if I could just unhook with our instant grab

  • TeabaggingGhostface
    TeabaggingGhostface Member Posts: 3,108

    Knock out is decent for the crawl speed debuff on the slugged survivor

    No mither should only cause broken if you get downed once, that way you can at least not condemn your team vs oni

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,923
    edited January 2023

    Yes.

    No.

    Yes.

    Yes.

    Yes.


    I'd be more informative but I have officially been up for far too long.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 9,528

    I don't necessarily disagree with anything on this list, although I would argue that the last three aren't exactly easy things to remove, since number three needs a lot of decision making and the occasional replacement, and the last two need full reworks.

    Still, it'd be nice overall!

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,346

    So do killers get IdV's terror shock instead of grabs to compensate? (that means survivors are exposed during actions.)

  • Rogue11
    Rogue11 Member Posts: 1,959

    Kobe Bryant (former NBA basketball player. Died a year or two ago in a freak helicopter crash) wore the number 4 most of his career.

  • Paternalpark
    Paternalpark Member Posts: 663

    I'm a gambling man, don't take away my slippery meat.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976

    Once you awaken from your slumber i'm really curious why you think removing random selfunhook chance that is usually used to ragequit from a match is a bad thing

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 17,614

    I would agree to any point except for point 2.

    Reasoning:

    1. Yeah, I think at least Hook Grabs on healthy Survivors should be removed. Currently unhooking is a lose/lose-Situation for the Survivor if the Killer is camping, because they wont get the unhook and are just forced to stay there and let the other player reach second stage and THEN the Killer might hit them. Even without a Hook-Grab, the Killer will get a trade, so it should still be fine.
    2. I think it should be kept. And this is coming from someone who never gets the 4% when needed (like everyone is slugged and I was just put on the Hook and stuff like that) and only when they want to be out of the match (3v1 against Nurse with 5 Gens...aaand I am off the Hook). It is nice to have that little bit of Hope. Also, removing it would not force players to participate in the game. They can just go afk. Or, eat the DC-penalty when they REALLY dont want to keep playing.
    3. Agreed. On both sides, Offerings can be removed. E.g. Mist-Offerings, you may want to keep the purple one for Survivors and the one that lessens the Mist on Killer, but they can be removed as well, because their impact is nearly non-existent. I also think that especially the Survivor-Bloodweb needs to be decluttered, there are 3 times as many Items in it compared to Killer. And some are just useless - like, you wont take anything except for Batteries or Low-Amp Filament on Flashlights. Or green Maps should not exist alongside their Add-Ons to make them useful, when Red Maps are already not used at all. Or why is there a Key Add On to see Survivors 24m away, when there is one which lets them see for 48m?
    4. Yeah, No Mither at this point is pointless. I used to bring it for some time due to the extra Challenge, but now there is not really anything rewarding (like back in the day reaching Rank 1 with No Mither felt more rewarding than reaching Grade 1 nowadays). But nowadays you cannot really afford to take this Perk because the game is way more difficult for Survivors. And luckily most players agree, the only ones using it are poor Adept-Davids. And for this use, this Perk really does not need to exist in this state.
    5. Fully agreed. One of the most frustrating Perks to go against and one of the most pointless ones to use, depending on your role and group size.
  • WesCravenFan
    WesCravenFan Member Posts: 2,637

    Remove hook grabs and it is now literally impossible to secure and end game kill against a hook bomb unless you are Bubba.


    That is a hard no from me.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,076
    edited January 2023

    Haha yes, I know who Kobe is - I'm just not sure why it refers to self unhooking.

    Regarding unhooks - yes, they could go AFK, but then they're wasting their own time and the killer can at least do their thing. DC penalty builds up.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,436

    I get "remove No Mither", the perk in it's current form is pretty stupid. But it could easily be made useful with some minor changes.

    Simply starting the game healthy, and only becoming broken after you lose that first health state would make it far more valuable.

    The killer wouldn't know to target you until they already were, and there's a chance they may not even notice the broken status for a period of time.

  • Shroompy
    Shroompy Member Posts: 7,773

    Knockout is actually a very decent perk on some killers, the only time SWF's dont have a problem with it is on maps that have many recognizable landmarks, or comp teams who know something like the clock callouts.

    A killer that absolutely shines with it is Dredge. It allows you to slug more effectively during Nightfall, which essentially allows you to bank points towards your next Nightfall.

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081

    1: ITs kinda crazy that this simple thing hasn't been implemented, everyone has been asking for it for so long, seems like one of the most agreed upon point between killers and survivors. I hope we get to see it

    2: Maybe rework it to a 1 chance to do it with some penalty other than hook timer, maybe also remove the skill checks in the second phase. Before killers complain about that just making survivors easier, remember that also makes finding the 4th survivor easier since a teammate can't kill themselves faster to spawn the hatch (there is pros and cons), but it would require a rework of perks offerings and the luck mechanic.

    3: Killers get add-on passes, i expect more to come. I hope for a survivor item and add-on pass, some itens and add-ons are so useless and some like BNPs are just broken and unfun to face. Offerings are also pretty lame in general, i generally only use the BPs or map offerings since those are the only ones that feel impactful, would be fun to have offering to be more impactful and fun, but that is also really scary, with how controversial map offerings are (tho thats more of some maps faults)

    4: Yeah, just rework the perk into a proper anti slug perk or something. No perk should be so bad as to be a handicap

    5: Yeah, the perk is kinda nasty for solo queue and a slight annoyance for SWF, i like the idea of the perk for meme builds a perk that creates some Chaos but the design is a bit flawed, but not the worst

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081

    What do you mean by hook bomb?

    Also no, hook grabs are just unfun, turns the game into a staring contest and invite lag rages (if either side has bad connection).

    Also in end game it wouldn't change much, smart survivors will just either bodyblock the unhooker or take a hit and let other survivor unhook.

    That change would only nerf camping in early and mid game, since the killer can't randomly get 2 hooks for the price of one, that way he only gets a trade every time. Unless survivors do the end game strat.

    Its fair and consistent for both sides.

    Also, there are end game perks like NOED, NWO and Terminus if killers want to secure kills in end game. If you only brought gen defense perks, the gens got done, you can't be mad that you don't have the tools now that all your perks are useless, it was your choice.

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,457

    removing hook grabs would just make it easier for survivors unhook even when not safe,it make most if not all unhooking safe even if the killer right there.

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081

    No, it would force a trade instead of a 50/50 between a trade and 2 hooks. Also, is really the staring gameplay and potential connection issues worth it. They can buff killers after if the killrates get to low, but bad design should go away

  • Stabby_Widdershins
    Stabby_Widdershins Member Posts: 485

    Hook grabs are not 'bad design' just because Survivors want every unhook to be unstoppable.

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,695

    They're also kind of an issue of their own. The only purpose they serve is to occasionally RNG frustrate one side and give someone a chance they did literally nothing to get.

  • Stabby_Widdershins
    Stabby_Widdershins Member Posts: 485

    Bait out the grab, get hit, and then unhook while the KIller is in his wipe animation.

    Or, you know, demand the developers remove hook grabs so Survivors never have to take any risks. 🙄

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976

    That's fair but i think it's not really a possibility to adress the issue so it's gone.

    The game can be as fair as it gets, people are going to justify themself quiting using this.

    I'd rather have a bandaid then nothing. Especially when you don't really lose anything of vallue to do it

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 9,528

    What would the root issue be, though, if not people having a way of getting out of matches without a penalty?

    I think it's a mistake to assume the core issue is that people want to leave matches, because people are always going to want to for stupid reasons. What we should be doing is making it so anyone who wants to leave a match has to take a penalty, and if there's some specific thing causing people to want to leave matches that actually warrants fixing, it can be fixed. None of that requires keeping the ability to suicide on hook.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,923

    Making it more worth it to stay in the match would be better. Clearly, nobody gives a ######### about the penalties. Removing the ability to self-unhook will increase DC's and people going AFK.

    After all, if we can't punish people for using unfun strategies, we might as well reward people for staying around. Incentives over punishments.

  • Katzengott
    Katzengott Member Posts: 1,210

    1) and 2) would be a good start, don't really care about the rest.

    Get rid of MMR on top of that. All it does is to enforce kills vs. escapes, meta vs. meta.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 9,528

    This assumes that even half of the people who suicide on hook are doing it because of something even arguably unfun on the killer's part, and not just that they don't like that particular killer character, or they don't like that they got hooked first, or they don't like something that a teammate did, or they don't like the map they spawned in on, or they tried to get a flashlight save and failed, etcetera, etcetera.

    Because it is so easy and accessible and penalty-free to leave via hook, people can, will, and are doing it for absolutely any reason that catches their whim. These are not players with reasonable grudges against unfun strategies, these are, frankly, whiny children who will absolutely give up and screw over their team at the most minor inconvenience. If they have to take a DC penalty or risk being reported for going AFK, they're a little less likely to give up- or they'll eventually be removed from people's games, which is a benefit too.

    You'll still see people DC, and if there's a reason for that beyond "i don't like [x]", that reason can be looked into. You don't have to choose one, you can and should do both.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 14,459
    edited January 2023

    Hooks breaking after killing a survivor is very outdated to me. Bad rng can already create dead zones by default but also having a hook broken permanently just makes it worse. A survivor should never not be able to be hooked without intervention from other survivors, ie body blocking, sabo’ing ect. Picking a survivor up and literally seeing no hooks in range should not be a thing, bad design. This is especially prevalent on indoor maps which are notorious for bad hook/lack of hook placement.

  • Stabby_Widdershins
    Stabby_Widdershins Member Posts: 485

    So Survivors should get permanent safe unhooks because your opinion of camping is low?

    Let's take that logic further:

    Some Survivors hate slugging for any reason. Better give everyone basekit Unbreakable!

    Survivors hate tunneling, too: Better take that idea one poster had and make Survivors literally immune to being attacked until they do any conspicuous actions!


    What's that? Killers aren't playing anymore, because they literally can't 12-hook against SWFs bringing full META perks? Well, they just need to git gud, clearly!

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,923

    Considering my own experience, my friends experience and from people I watch; I would say well over half of the people want to give up due to those things.


    There's 6 hooks before the first gen pops? I'd rather just go next, this game is over. A funny Nurse brought us to Midwich? Hope the next match is better, but I'll see how long I can last.


    I may not immediately try to kobe, but if I see my teammates just sitting in corners, I'm gonna consider it. This game can't handle forcing people to play every match out to the slow and bitter end.


    The only times I DC (not saying you should) is when I'm ready to play a better game.