http://dbd.game/killswitch
Eruption is the killer equivalent of release mettle of man
Release mettle of man was a stupid perk that worked incredibly well with other meta perks at the time (bt, ds) and gave an incredible amount of value (extra health state) with basically 0 work outside of playing normally (getting hit.) It had no reasonable counterplay other than to not chase the survivor with it or play specific killers that get around it. It was put on a licensed character, so people couldn't get it with shards.
Eruption is a stupid perk that works incredibly well with other meta perks (cob, oc) and gives an incredible amount of value (40 seconds wasted per gen affected) with basically 0 work outside of playing normally (defending gens). It has no reasonable counterplay other not repairing generators or only playing in a 4 man SWF with comms. It was put on a licensed character, so people couldn't get it with shards.
Comments
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They would be similar if it wasn't because the "40 seconds" wasted is only true if you are hit by it and was repairing the generator alone without any perk or toolbox, countering it by repairing can be done in 33 seconds with two other survivors and PT, and the killer didn't have to take time to kick the gen for it to be active in that gen, which can be a gen that already has 90% of progress.
The most close equivalent for a Mettle of Man for killers would be "When survivors complete 3 gens, the next gen they complete regress to 0% and should be repaired again".
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That's some Fuzzy Math.
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25s incap + 9s instant regression + 6s normal regression that you can't stop because incapacitated. So no. It's 40 seconds and not 33s. Also it can hit up-to 3 survivors for this value (which can very easily happen when defending last 3gen).
The perk when paired with OC+CoB is just *WAAAAY TOO OP* . It would be fine on it's own, but not when it can stack with other stuff. Defending 3gen indefinitely is not that hard. It's time to nerf it somehow (at least create something like exhaustion that survivors have - it would be also very unfair if survivors could use at the same time DH, sprint, lithe and balanced landing.
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You haven't even read what I said.
33 seconds is what it takes 3 survivors with PT to complete a gen, less than the average chase. So, in this situation countering Eruption is as easy as just do the gen before the killer can down the 4º survivor, something that would be easy if the survivor he is chasing is a good looper and/or use WoO to just go pallet to pallet to waste the killer's time.
And now, about your "40 seconds" point: Generator repair doesn't go by seconds, go by charges (90 charges in total). 1 survivor repair at a rate of 1 c/s, taking 90 seconds in total to complete a gen. If you only take one survivor without any perks, toolboxes or great checks repairing a gen, getting hit by eruption and just waiting for Incapacitated to run out then yes, that would be 25 + 9 = 34 seconds of unavoidable regression and 6.25 seconds of avoidable regression (as another survivor not affected by it can simply tap the gen and stop the "normal regression").
But in reality that aren't seconds, but charges. So even in that worst case scenario 34 charges can be recovered in 20 seconds by two survivors without perks, toolboxes or great checks. With PT and two survivors, that would be 17.34 seconds. A single survivor with a common toolbox would do it in 26.89 seconds. I think you get the idea by now.
But what if it was two survivors repairing the gen? Well, the lost charges in the gen would be the same, and now two survivors are incapacitated for 25 seconds so if those survivors would repair each a single gen would be a total lost of 50 charges. But for the gen affected by Eruption, in repair time, it would have only lost 5.29 seconds of unavoidable regression, as two survivors with just basekit progression take only 52.94 seconds to complete the gen, and in the same situation of just waiting for incapacitated to wear off as before, in reality the lost in possible charges would be 42.5 (0.85 c/s per survivor), which at a rate of 1.7 c/s would be... 25 seconds of progress lost (24.99 in reality). So, in the same scenario as before but with two survivors repairing and getting hit by Eruption, the total lost in seconds would be 25 + 5.29 = 30.29 seconds of unavoidable regression. Even less than with one survivor only. And again, that is just "wasted time", as the lost in charges in the gen is less and can be recovered much faster than that.
But for the last "but" we have to point out that all this is assuming those survivors with the Incapacitated effect would continue to repair that generator. What if the killer just downed the survivor close to the gen they were repairing and decide to slug the downed survivor and go for the ones in the gen? There, that 25 seconds of "progress lost" would be no more as they wouldn't be repairing that gen in the first place. In fact, those 25 seconds of "progress lost" never was really "progress lost" but "possible progress not gained", meaning that a gen at 90% after Eruption just triggered could be continue to be repaired at that % by a survivor not affected with Incapacitated.
So, as I said, that 40 seconds wasted is only true if you are hit by Eruption while repairing the generator alone without perks, toolbox or doing great checks, no other survivors comes to continue that gen, and you can just wait patiently in the gen for the incapacitation effect to wear off.
And about the "OP" part with stacking it with OC and CoB, a 400% regression is -1 c/s lost, basically the same rate at what one survivor can repair a gen, and to avoid this you only have to slightly tap the gen to stop the regression. And defend 3 gens is easy in some maps and if the survivors aren't smart enough to do the mid gens and let the killer with one gen in each corner of the map.
In conclusion, if you want to counter Eruption + regression stack just play smart and do gen fast.
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The problem with doing the gen in 33 seconds is even if you can get all 3 survivors together on a gen, my average solo queue team mate cant go 15 seconds without getting hit so they get downed 3 seconds before we finish the gen regardless
if its so easy why dont you queue up for some survivor matches right now and show us how its done
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15 seconds to go down? I'm going to apply the survivor main logic that is used around here for killers and say that sounds like a skill issue, my friend 🤣
With PT, even 2 survivors doing the gen would do it in 46.04 seconds, at 1.96 c/s. Pair PT with Situational Awareness and even in SoloQ you would have more chances for other survivors to come repair the same gen as you. Grab Deja Vu with a map and you would know what gens to do so the killer don't ends up with strong 3 last gens. Not that is needed, as gens usually spawn at the same spots on the map, so it's easy to know what gens should be done first.
And why don't you start playing a non-high mobility killer, stack 4 regression perks, and come here to tell us how many games against high MMR survivors don't end with 1 gen left or less than 3k. Oh, and no tunneling or camping! Just plain good survivor moral rules book gameplay. Enjoy your stress!
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Here are my stats: Mostly blight played but as you can see I very rarely use any slowdowns at all. (My most common build is Lethal + BBQ + AA + either IF or Enduring depending on how Im feeling
Here are my most used perks and results from my last 277 matches. 1 Trapper, 16 spirit, 28 wesker, 16 nurse, 208 blight
Most used survivor perks in those matches in case youre curious
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yeah I agree, killers have 1 perk that doesnt completely suck, we cant be having that... killers shouldnt get any kills... whats next? killers can only move backwards?
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Nothing has ever came close to release MoM. Release MoM was a completely passive perk that gave you a free health state. Granted some killers like Huntress and Nurse (who was actually bugged when it came to interacting with MoM) could ignore it.
Eruption is strong and will likely get nerfed in the future, but it's far from being a completely free perk you can just equip and just benefit from.
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It shouldnt get nerfed, theres so many if's involved... If you get nailed by Eruption, you deserve it for screwing up that badly.
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So, you basically play high mobility, top tier killers including the one killer with highest killrate... I think my point has being proved.
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Meaning nerf that killer as he's OP? He's not even the worst offender. That place belongs to nurse. And no. Even blight is fine provided that perks like Eruption would become reasonable instead of their current state.
You make it sound like killers were nerfed 100 times and the game is now heavily survivor sided. I would advice you to actually check old DBD clips from the beginning of this game (like from 2016). This would be a nice reminder that it's actually survivors that are being CONSTANTLY nerfed. You can't even realistically compare the game from that time to this one. 60% kill rate being just one prime example and constant survivor incentives (even if survivor games are quicker then killer's) just underlying the state we are in right now.
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COB+OC is 300% reg, not 400
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That is the most forced straw man fallacy I have ever seen. Please, re-read what was being talked about and understand it before answering.
CoB + OC is 275% regression on the kicking, 400% after 30 seconds as OC increases the regression rate by 75% to 200% over 30 seconds.
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-"Eruption is a stupid perk that works incredibly well with other meta perks (cob, oc) and gives an incredible amount of value (40 seconds wasted per gen affected) with basically 0 work"
This goes to show you know next to nothing about playing killer. In the first place kicking generators is nearly pointless without regression perks. Why? The killer has a natural regression equal to 1/4th of one survivor. And then remember there are 4 survivors so the killer is at a 1:16 disadvantage for defending generators. If you're saying Nerf eruption and make base kit killer regression 1:1 without any perks then sure let's do that.
It would be fine for example if Eruption just stopped all the triggered generators from any possible interaction for 30 seconds and the perk had no cooldown. In other words it would affect solo players and SWF teams equally. If the killer kicks a generator and then someone goes down that generator can't be stopped regressing for 30 seconds. And then when that time is up the killer can immediately kick gens again and trigger the trap again.
-"It was put on a licensed character, so people couldn't get it with shards."
This is the disgusting part. DBD is trying to force anyone who wants to play killer into getting the good perk via money and not shards. Pinhead's perks have been kept out of the shrine for over a year.
This is why the shrine is "random" so they can keep the good perks out of the shrine and instead have free access perks clog up the system. All of the characters you get for free (Jake, dwight, trapper, nurse, etc should not have their perks in the shrine).
A fair system would have all the perks appear in random order and then the cycle would repeat. DBD has it setup as an unfair system to make you waste money.
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OC doesn't increase the regression rate BY 75%, it increases it FROM 75% to 200% (aka a -25% to +100% change to reg speed). COB increases regression TO 200% (aka a +100% change to reg speed). The total regression goes from 175% (100% default+100% COB-25% OC) to 300% (100% default+100% COB+100% OC).
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Well, math don't lie, so I created a little program to check it and you are right, it's 300% regression in reality:
Overcharge Max Bonus: 200.0 Overcharge Start Bonus: 75.0 Overcharge Percentage per Second: 4.166666666666667 CoB augment base before OC: false Sec: 0 | Per: 175 | OC: 75 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.43750 | Left: 90.0 Sec: 1 | Per: 179 | OC: 79 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.44792 | Left: 89.5625 Sec: 2 | Per: 183 | OC: 83 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.45833 | Left: 89.11458333333333 Sec: 3 | Per: 187 | OC: 87 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.46875 | Left: 88.65625 Sec: 4 | Per: 191 | OC: 91 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.47917 | Left: 88.1875 Sec: 5 | Per: 195 | OC: 95 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.48958 | Left: 87.70833333333333 Sec: 6 | Per: 200 | OC: 100 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.50000 | Left: 87.21875 Sec: 7 | Per: 204 | OC: 104 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.51042 | Left: 86.71875 Sec: 8 | Per: 208 | OC: 108 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.52083 | Left: 86.20833333333333 Sec: 9 | Per: 212 | OC: 112 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.53125 | Left: 85.6875 Sec: 10 | Per: 216 | OC: 116 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.54167 | Left: 85.15625 Sec: 11 | Per: 220 | OC: 120 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.55208 | Left: 84.61458333333333 Sec: 12 | Per: 225 | OC: 125 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.56250 | Left: 84.0625 Sec: 13 | Per: 229 | OC: 129 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.57292 | Left: 83.5 Sec: 14 | Per: 233 | OC: 133 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.58333 | Left: 82.92708333333333 Sec: 15 | Per: 237 | OC: 137 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.59375 | Left: 82.34375 Sec: 16 | Per: 241 | OC: 141 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.60417 | Left: 81.75 Sec: 17 | Per: 245 | OC: 145 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.61458 | Left: 81.14583333333333 Sec: 18 | Per: 250 | OC: 150 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.62500 | Left: 80.53125 Sec: 19 | Per: 254 | OC: 154 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.63542 | Left: 79.90625 Sec: 20 | Per: 258 | OC: 158 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.64583 | Left: 79.27083333333333 Sec: 21 | Per: 262 | OC: 162 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.65625 | Left: 78.625 Sec: 22 | Per: 266 | OC: 166 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.66667 | Left: 77.96875 Sec: 23 | Per: 270 | OC: 170 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.67708 | Left: 77.30208333333333 Sec: 24 | Per: 275 | OC: 175 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.68750 | Left: 76.625 Sec: 25 | Per: 279 | OC: 179 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.69792 | Left: 75.9375 Sec: 26 | Per: 283 | OC: 183 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.70833 | Left: 75.23958333333333 Sec: 27 | Per: 287 | OC: 187 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.71875 | Left: 74.53125 Sec: 28 | Per: 291 | OC: 191 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.72917 | Left: 73.8125 Sec: 29 | Per: 295 | OC: 195 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.73958 | Left: 73.08333333333333 Sec: 30 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 72.34375 Sec: 31 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 71.59375 Sec: 32 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 70.84375 Sec: 33 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 70.09375 Sec: 34 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 69.34375 Sec: 35 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 68.59375 Sec: 36 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 67.84375 Sec: 37 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 67.09375 Sec: 38 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 66.34375 Sec: 39 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 65.59375 Sec: 40 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 64.84375 Sec: 41 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 64.09375 Sec: 42 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 63.34375 Sec: 43 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 62.59375 Sec: 44 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 61.84375 Sec: 45 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 61.09375 Sec: 46 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 60.34375 Sec: 47 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 59.59375 Sec: 48 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 58.84375 Sec: 49 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 58.09375 Sec: 50 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 57.34375 Sec: 51 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 56.59375 Sec: 52 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 55.84375 Sec: 53 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 55.09375 Sec: 54 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 54.34375 Sec: 55 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 53.59375 Sec: 56 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 52.84375 Sec: 57 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 52.09375 Sec: 58 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 51.34375 Sec: 59 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 50.59375 Sec: 60 | Per: 300 | OC: 200 | CoB: 100 | CpS: -0.75000 | Left: 49.84375 Sec: 61 | Per: 200 | OC: 200 | CoB: 0 | CpS: -0.50000 | Left: 49.09375 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sec: 159 | Per: 200 | OC: 200 | CoB: 0 | CpS: -0.50000 | Left: 0.09375 TOTAL SECONDS: 160
Comparing the results with this video of Choy where every gen finish 10 seconds earlier approx, it can't be 400% as that would be only 139 seconds (2:19 minutes):
The way I understood it was exactly how you said: If CoB increases regression "to 200%" and OC make it go "from 75% to 200%" of itself, that would be ((-0.25 * 2) * 75) / 100 = -0.375 c/s at the start of OC, and (-0.25 * 2) * 2 = -1 c/s = 400% regression in total, or 300% increase after 30 seconds with both perks activated. But as I said that would be 139 seconds only.
So yeah, I was wrong... but on the wright side, another reason for people to stop complaining about regression perks and how OP stacking them is 🤣
The code I did, if there is some curious fellow programmer out there reading this (warning: spaghetti as hell): https://pl.kotl.in/g-xY3c2z6
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To be fair, 300% regression is still a lot. It's slower than default survivor repair speed but that's not saying much, default repair speed is very fast.
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Hopefully next ptb will have nerfs for this stupid perk otherwise keeping on the bnp toolbox shenanigans ^^
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It's not that much when you take in count survivors can stop the regression by simply tapping the gen and two survivors without any perk, item or checks can do in 53 seconds what CoB + OC reverts in 2:40 (2:42 in reality, as I forgot that OC go up by 25% regression every 6 seconds instead of gradually going up like I did, so it's 100% at 6 seconds and 125% at 12). That's the factual and mathematical truth as we have seen. Repair speed it's not only very fast, it's too fast.
So yeah, change Eruption and stackable regression, but do something about gen progression too.
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That would be true if killer mains did not convince devs that having 3gens within 20m on half the maps is good idea. As it stands it's not killer's 1s and survivor can work then for 1s. It's killers stay in 3gen and if anybody comes close, he will get injure (and then possible quick down which will reset everything with eruption).
If the devs at least made it so, that any 2 gens can't be closer together then 20m, then your math could MAYBE POTENTIALLY work. As it stands, killer can regress 2-3 gens at the same time AND "freeze" + regress them after down. But having 7 gens 20m apart would be impossible on some maps, because again - killers convinced devs, that maps like midwitch are actually good size for the game.
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I would say eruption == to dead hard(both versions of dh). both perks slow the other sides objective down and both perks are activated by the other side succeeding their indirect objective. In my personal opinion, DH is stronger then eruption because the survivor does not need to go out of their way to activate DH while the killer does have to go out of their way to kick gens.
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only if DH made no animation and lasted way longer. Then we could talk that it's comparable.
Also Eruption is 100% stronger in this meta, because you can't mix DH with sprint and lithe, but you can do so for eruption basically watering down the "negative" to something to laugh at. There's a huge number of killers that figured out chases are not as important as kicking the gen and will drop the chase just to move 5s away, kick the gen and then start new chase - because it's still worth it running multiple regression perks.
If there was "exhaustion" mechanics for eruption, CoB, Overcharge, Jolt and pain resonance, then the perks would also be actually comparable.
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Again, if you are not smart enough to not alternate gens and don't left the killer with 3 close gens it's your fault. Bigger maps would mean more time to get to a gen which give more time to survivors to do a gen, and in most maps going from gen to gen is 10 seconds of walking approx. If progression of gens is a problem now, with bigger maps would be even worst.
And while moving 5 seconds away, kicking the gen, and looking for another chase that survivor that you just let escape can come and continue the gen with almost not progress lost while the survivors already repairing would continue to do so until you find them. And when you do find them, if you stop to kick the gen to apply Eruption then you would be giving them time to hide or have a head start of the chase. So, basically you have just lost time.
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To be entirely honest Id like to pretend I never commented on this. Not sure why we cant just delete our own comments.
Post edited by Chordyceps on0
