http://dbd.game/killswitch
Are there other games where 10 hour players can destroy 10000 hour players?
Comments
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I replied to you and the OP, who posted after you.
I gave Ayrun as counterexample - people can do bloody well in solo queue. And I watched those games, as well as his more recent streak attempts (where he'd get 5-8 in a row, then lose - still bonkers). There were a few where he hid and abused the exploit to never get crows, but most of them he played out straight. Very, very good survivor. And killers chased him all the time...because sadly, we can't see MMR in game.
I never said solo queue is fine...(see what I mean by moving the goalposts?).
I said that solo queue will always suck, because it kind of has to. There is no way to bring solo and SWF up to the same level, and you can't balance around solo queue without completely screwing killers over.
I used Ayrun - again (sigh) - as an example of how solo queue isn't quite as bad as everyone carps on about.
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“with bad matchmaking no one pushes gens correctly”. Was the correct verbiage.
It’s pretty sad but also indicative of why I need to not waste my time in these forums. You didn’t respond to any point with a logical counterpoint. It was all some variation of “no, you’re wrong. I can say what I want”. I could give a crap if you believe my hours or not. All my points about the game are patently obvious to anyone that plays a lot of solo survivor. I’m not wasting anymore time on talking to brick walls. You can take pleasure in knowing I won’t respond to you anymore. You made the short list of forum folks i won’t waste my time with.
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The problem with using aryun is like saying a killer like blight needs to be gutted because momo can win 99.8% of his games. We have stats stating that the top 5% of mmr killers are around 60%. Aryun just isn't what you see at the soft cap.
Not seeing how that is moving the goalpost. I'm saying this ######### is a dumpster fire and you seem to be saying that its not that bad. You have downplayed how bad certain things are. You did say eruption has counterplay or something like that before. When it comes to 3 gens you say its the survivors fault unless they did it at the start. That's bad rng and not bad MM. Things like that downplay how bad the game can be.
And you can bring soloq up closer to swf. Eruption is much, much better vs soloq than it is a swf on coms. Camping and tunneling are much, much better vs soloq than a swf on coms. They're widening the gap instead of closing it. Sure you can't have soloq right there with a 4 stack, but at the end of the day the game has some serious problems that only affect soloq. If I play with 3 other good players then bad MM doesn't affect me. Eruption is completely countered if a swf plays well on coms. Killers can't camp or tunnel if I'm in a 4 stack with everyone running OTR and Reassurance, but gl with that in soloq because it just doesn't work. OTR is counter by proxy camping with reassurance being a counter but soloq survivors have no idea if it's in play or if someone used it. It feels like soloq is more there to just pad the stats.
This is why the game was better back in the day. I could bring BT and DS and have killers chase me. The frustrating things about soloq is it's always something. If it isn't bad MM then its camping, tunneling, or killer doing a 3 gen. Back in my day killers actually chased players.
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If that's what you took away from my responses, then you may well be right and should just stop. And no 'I'm right because I think I'm right' is not much better. That's circular.
You...aren't. I don't think you said a single accurate thing in that post.
But I will say this. If you've spent 10k hours doing something that makes you so incredibly and visibly miserable, then that's on you I'm afraid. Either find a SWF, switch to killer, or maybe look at a different game - something that isn't team based, maybe?
If I'd said 'Blight was unplayable and terrible' then linking me a successful Blight main would have been perfectly fine.
'Not that bad' is miles away from 'fine'. Which, yes, is moving the goalpost, in this case by putting words in my mouth. I mean that, as the obviously sub-optimal way of playing this game, it's far from as awful as folks make it out to be.
Yes, Eruption has counterplay. No counterplay is 100% reliable, or else you've got a useless perk.
And, once again - no, that's not what I said (again, see why I feel like I'm wasting time? You can't even frame my responses honestly). I used what you described as an example - someone went down in the middle of a natural 3gen. That is 100% on them.
- Eruption is slightly mediocre versus coms, but it's also one of...what? 3? Good, reliable regression perks left to killers, precisely because of QQ threads like this. Thana? Overcharge? Ruin? And I can guarantee you that after Eruption gets axed, all that happens is the exact same complaint threads about PR+DMS.
- ...How the hell do you 'fix' tunneling without buffing SWF? You already have baseline BT, perks like OTR and Decisive Strike.
- Ditto camping.
- This is true of most of the issues that solos struggle with. Those issues are, at a certain level of play, absolutely essential for killers to contest a game against an SWF. Now, if you wanted to totally rework the game to remove tunneling and camping while massively buffing killers so that an SWF isn't an autoloss, then...fine? But you may as well ask for a gold played Ferrari. It's not going to happen.
- Mate, everyone from Ayrun to Dowsey to Otz has remarked how much less they see camping and tunneling now. And I've watched games from 2017...there was tons of it.
- 'Pad the stats'? What stats?
- Killers chased you...what are killers doing now? I'm still putting together the dataset I've mentioned a few times in other threads, but less than 7% of the games I played or watched had what I'd call camping or tunneling (no, I don't count defending a hook when there's a survivor obviously nearby, or ignoring someone I hooked before if I find them again either). I saw 1 game in over 500 now where a killer deliberately went for a 3gen from the start. 3gens outside of this are something survivors are responsible for.
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Except he is no where near what you see from the survivors at soft cap. It's like saying killer pre 6.1 wasn't in need of buffs because the best players were winning games as killers. It simply is not indicative of the game state.
I take "not that bad" as a small negative with "fine" being neutral. Hey, how bad is this injury? It's not that bad. I take that as minor problem.
Eruption doesn't have counterplay for soloq. If the killer kicks gen and leave I either tap and find another gen, gen tap(LOL), or hope a survivor doesn't go down before I complete the gen. Unless you are saying that the counterplay is LOL just don't go down 4Head. If i physically see the survivor ion chase you can come off at moment you think they might go down but i don't find that to be common.
It's all about game delay. I don't see how it is relevant if it is regression or game delay, as both slow down the game. Thana is also game delay not regression.
Well the problem with OTR is killers can bypass it unless survivors use reassurance. The way you fix that is most likely reverting OTR and bringing back DS. If it aint broke don't fix it
You can't camp or tunnel a full team with OTR and Reassurance. The survivor never gets off the hook and you waste time proxy camping. If you leave they'll save and OTR protects from the tunnel. If you're really good you also bring For the people and insta heal the injured survivor to ensure the killer will lose if they try to tunnel. You can force the killer to spread hooks compared to soloq where you are kinda free to remove players without issue. OTR is also terrible game design perk as it informs the killer if you have it or not. I recall they made the obsession thing always happen after the ds nerf since players stopped using it for a period and killer would tunnel everyone when they knew it wasn't in play.
Camping and tunnel wasn't common once bbq was added and face camping was removed. I want to say from 2018-2021 there was very little of it. 2017 also still had 30 pallet maps and pallet vacuum. I would say 2017 was the worst year for dbd. The game legit almost died back then. Pretty sure that was also the time a dev told players to go play other games if they weren't happy with the state of the game.
Devs want killers to have a 60% kill rate.
3 genning and camping/tunneling players out. Why would you 3 gen off the rip? You chase the first player and try to 3 gen with the hook. You now get pressure since the survivors need to save while you are defending a 3 gen at the same time. And I see camping all the time. If a killer falls behind they camp often. Sure if they control the game they won't do it much but when they fall behind I see it quite a lot.
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The fact that the KiLLaH MaiNz keep pointing out the hyperbole of your title "10k hours" means that you actually are on to something and they don't want to face the fact that between lag and low input/high output gen popping perks (BUSTED!) that this game has completely 180'd the health of this game.
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What hyperbole? The OP doubled down on that claim later in the thread. Unless...is this an alt?
What health? The game was Solo << Killer <<< SWF before 6.1.0. Now it's Solo <<< Killer << SWF. Sort of a lateral movement. And I've heard nearly every survivor streamer I've been watching over the past while talk about how much more fun they are having now...so?
Except he is no where near what you see from the survivors at soft cap. It's like saying killer pre 6.1 wasn't in need of buffs because the best players were winning games as killers. It simply is not indicative of the game state.
No, he's an indicator that you can do solo queue and still escape the vast majority of your games. Now, take someone with 5k hours, about the upper end of what I generally face. Let's say they escape half the time. That's still healthy.
I take "not that bad" as a small negative with "fine" being neutral. Hey, how bad is this injury? It's not that bad. I take that as minor problem.
And this is what I meant about semantics. Moving along.
Eruption doesn't have counterplay for soloq. If the killer kicks gen and leave I either tap and find another gen, gen tap(LOL), or hope a survivor doesn't go down before I complete the gen.
You know what - I'm a terrible survivor. But I'm going to be playing a fair bit next week, so if I see Eruption in a game I can record a few and show just how accurately I can usually predict when someone goes down with Empathy. Just need to figure out where to upload it.
Maybe...50-60% of the time within 10 seconds? And I can bet that more experienced survivors can do that far more reliably. How about we trade? You do your Demo claim and I'll do mine.
Unless you are saying that the counterplay is LOL just don't go down 4Head.
Yes, being able to run the killer for a while isn't just counterplay to Eruption, it's what survivors are supposed to do.
It's all about game delay. I don't see how it is relevant if it is regression or game delay, as both slow down the game. Thana is also game delay not regression.
Not sure what you're talking about to be honest. Nobody runs Thana, for the same reason that if folks like the OP gets their way, nobody will run Eruption.
Well the problem with OTR is killers can bypass it unless survivors use reassurance. The way you fix that is most likely reverting OTR and bringing back DS. If it aint broke don't fix it
DS is still a perfectly fine perk. I see it all the time in comp play. And not sure what reass is about here, because - yes - some killers can bypass Endurance, those cases need to be fixed, but that is not this discussion.
I want to say from 2018-2021
Shrug. You're welcome to your opinion. I think you're wrong, but whatever.
All I can say is - it wasn't until 2021 where they fixed most of the survivor-side exploits, and they still haven't fixed all of them.
Devs want killers to have a 60% kill rate.
And?
The problem with that kill rate is that it's not reflective of the game on the ground.
3 genning and camping/tunneling players out. Why would you 3 gen off the rip? You chase the first player and try to 3 gen with the hook. You now get pressure since the survivors need to save while you are defending a 3 gen at the same time. And I see camping all the time. If a killer falls behind they camp often. Sure if they control the game they won't do it much but when they fall behind I see it quite a lot.
I would include that in 'from the start'. Again, one game in about 550 now.
Define camping? Because I get called a camper constantly because people literally tried to unhook mid chase and I downed them.
Again, in the dataset I'm building (going up another 100-200 games or so, then posting it), excluding games where a killer camps to get 1 kill at endgame (which I don't think anyone is going to whine about unless they are really petty), is defending a hook because a survivor ran out in plain view or followed them or similar, it would be around...5% of games? Between 4% and 5% I'd say.
And okay, let's take your hypothesis here. If killers are having to camp in order to win games...what does that tell you?
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"Except he is no where near what you see from the survivors at soft cap. It's like saying killer pre 6.1 wasn't in need of buffs because the best players were winning games as killers. It simply is not indicative of the game state."
Dog do you realize 90% of the players in this game are terrible? 9% are good and 1% maybe can be considered amazing. Nah not even 1%
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50% would be smurfing? the top 5% of killers are around 61% on average. I would say it is safe to say they are at the soft cap and that is also taking into account swf. Is it really unrealistic to assume that soloq is down to 35% while swf is around 45% on average?
If you are trying to read a survivor going down at a pallet that won't really work since everyone and their mother runs dh and that counters playing dropped pallets with dh up. Just like there are issues with soloq there are problems with what survivors have. The only way I see you countering it is when you see a survivor looping and then drop working on the gen. Like its really not worth spending a perk slot and then on top of that having to take time off gens to avoid the perk. I would also say that it's unhealthy to have solo survivors to jump through hoops to avoid the 40 seconds regression.
Running the killer for a period of time is a lot to ask when there is bad MM. That's another problem with soloq imo. Like, yes you are not wrong in saying players should be able to hold their own but it just doesn't happened like that. The other players get punished for the game not making an equal squad.
misread about thana. Would say killers still have a large amount of slowdown perk even without eruption. If they made the perk 15% and 10 second incap it would still be a solid choice. Can run it with brine still and would make doing 3 gens not as strong. I personally think pop should see a buff or 2 since it was a much healthier perk compared to eruption but you know gotta change the meta, unless it is dh.
reassurance counters the counter to otr. If you want to counter otr you can proxy camp and hit the survivor that got off hook right away. They need to make it so you get 1 save but it works with endurance. That would make it like ds because right now the perk straight up doesn't work when you are getting camping and tunneled.
I would call a camper a person that guards the hooked player when no survivor is around.
If the killers need to camp hooks vs soloq rn then that tells me they're bad. Remember I'm a day one player. I was there when the rulebook was made.
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50% would be smurfing? the top 5% of killers are around 61% on average. I would say it is safe to say they are at the soft cap and that is also taking into account swf. Is it really unrealistic to assume that soloq is down to 35% while swf is around 45% on average?
Okay, here's the thing.
Again, going off my data I see a quitter in around 25-30% of games. Those stats excluded DCs, so let's be conservative and say 15-20%.
Now, SWFs escape 10-15% more than average, and have very few quitters. But that's a 3 or a 4 stack. So...let's say those are rare enough to be ignored.
That's why those 60% kill rates are probably fine by the devs. Because once you extract quitters and AFKers, it probably looks a lot closer to 50-55%.
If you are trying to read a survivor going down at a pallet that won't really work since everyone and their mother runs dh and that counters playing dropped pallets with dh up. Just like there are issues with soloq there are problems with what survivors have. The only way I see you countering it is when you see a survivor looping and then drop working on the gen. Like its really not worth spending a perk slot and then on top of that having to take time off gens to avoid the perk. I would also say that it's unhealthy to have solo survivors to jump through hoops to avoid the 40 seconds regression.
I mostly read them by how they're moving. I would say that, before a survivor goes down, almost all of them move a certain way as an attempt to juke. The second I see that, I release. If they keep running in a straight line, I stay on.
I would also say that aura reading is essential in solo. It's hardly a wasted slot.
Running the killer for a period of time is a lot to ask when there is bad MM. That's another problem with soloq imo. Like, yes you are not wrong in saying players should be able to hold their own but it just doesn't happened like that. The other players get punished for the game not making an equal squad.
MMR could be tightened up a bit, sure. But again, that's not this thread. And it also cuts both ways - sometimes you'll get a weak killer and decent teammates.
Would say killers still have a large amount of slowdown perk even without eruption
Do they? Everyone and their mum knows how to play around Penti+Plaything. Deadlock is...fine, but can actually work against you. Surge is niche. Overcharge is a terrible perk that gets brought a lot for some reason, much like Thana. Ruin is hot garbage, as is Oppression. Pop is extremely mediocre.
Unless I'm forgetting one, that leaves PR+DMS and CoB. So now we're back to a perfectly static regression meta.
reassurance counters the counter to otr. If you want to counter otr you can proxy camp and hit the survivor that got off hook right away. They need to make it so you get 1 save but it works with endurance. That would make it like ds because right now the perk straight up doesn't work when you are getting camping and tunneled.
Proxy camping is entirely fine, and is mostly a nothing term. It describes everything from trapping a hook to simply defending it.
I would call a camper a person that guards the hooked player when no survivor is around.
Shrug. Then yeah, maybe 4%. That's hardly anything to get your underpants in an uproar over. The only time it's a real issue is when it's a killer that can bypass End (as I said before, these need to be fixed) and maybe a Billy or a Bubba.
If the killers need to camp hooks vs soloq rn then that tells me they're bad. Remember I'm a day one player. I was there when the rulebook was made.
The survivor rulebook is a troll post that basically boils down to 'just let me win'. Nobody takes it seriously. Well...I hope they don't.
Again, referring to when you started almost cuts against you here, because it either means you haven't played that much over the years (or you'd be Ayrun level) or...yeah, actually what I just said.
'Bad' is subjective in a game with MMR. But again, let's say that MMR doesn't work right and that killer is just completely outclassed. I definitely don't think 'bad' here works.
Here's how camping operates on the ground, generally.
- Someone wants to facecamp at first down. That's obnoxious as it's usually a chainsaw. That, again, should be tweaked, but it's a different dicussion.
- A killer knows that the current team they are facing is going to be impossible to beat playing standard. So they decide to camp, in the hopes that this pulls everyone to the hook and they can try to get back in the game. To me, that seems perfectly valid.
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I couldn't really say on how much I see dc's. I know it's very rare for me to see one early on but I do giggle when a survivors dc on death hook. Even though I play Nurse I don't see them unless I vs players that have no idea how to mind game.
Makes sense to get off if you see a wiggle. The problem with that is the survivor is going down in the open which should be a more rare thing. Then again everyone runs dh so if you see them spin over and over so that is also an indicator. I would then counter that soloq has to run a perk slot for what swf gets for free. It's just another thing that hurts soloq but swf shakes it off. Info perks are so valuable for soloq but you can just hope on a call with friends and get that for free.
No way out with noed is a very strong end game power spike. Corrupt is still fairly solid if you are going against strong teams. And the most sleeper perk is Gift of pain. If a killer has good down pressure (Nurse, spirit, blight) you can get amazing value from this perk. I was running gift of pain, agi, pain res on trapper and had some great games with it. The core problem with the perk is if you can't keep the tempo across the map then players just stay injured to bypass the slowdown. Did some games with that build on Nurse and was able to hard punish players trying to bypass the slowdown. Funny enough staying injured vs Nurse isn't a very smart thing to do.
It feels really bad because it's one thing or another. It might not be camping all the time but then it might be tunneling. Personally I feel like a see camping more than 1/20 games. Then again it might just be that the negative experiences stick.
There were rulebooks for both sides on release. If you pissed me off I could stand right in front of your hook and you're dying without being able to play the game anymore. If I wanted to I could bring a mori in and remove you on first down. If I was playing survivor and you face camped my team mate you might be staying in the game for an extra hour or two. The rulebook was made so everyone can have fun playing the extremely broken game.
Ayrun is a .01% player. There is a massive difference even going down to top 1%. Just because I'm a legacy player doesn't mean I'm one of the best player to every touch this game. I find camping to be a cheap and a extremely boring tactic for both sides. I'd much rather play a full meta loadout and go for hooks than be perkless but having to camp/tunnel.
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Hi OP.
I couldn't really say on how much I see dc's.
The data excludes DCs. I'm saying that suiciding (and to a lesser extent AFKing) is ridiculously common for survivors, but killers can't 'suicide', they can only DC. Those kill rates would look very different if you took quitters out.
I can walk you through the napkin math here if you'd like. That 60% is very misleading.
I would then counter that soloq has to run a perk slot for what swf gets for free
Info perks are so valuable for soloq but you can just hope on a call with friends and get that for free.
Yes. These are true statements.
And?
Unless BHVR do a complete mea culpa on their statements regarding design philosophy, they aren't going to balance SWF and solo differently, and the game has to be balanced around SWF.
No way out with noed is a very strong end game power spike.
Not regression or really slowdown, as NWO is barely going to help you in games where you're losing. I like it as a perk, but it more often works as a tool to secure an extra kill or two at endgame. NOED is a horrible crutch of a perk that I never run.
Corrupt is still fairly solid if you are going against strong teams.
CI is the one I forgot. It's...good-ish, but the only killers I'd really use it on are Hag and Trapper.
Regardless, my point is that 6.1.0 was designed to open up the meta slightly.
Then Overcharge got gutted on the PTB and Thana was nerfed to *worse than it was originally*.
So once Eruption is nerfed, we're going to have less variety in the regression meta than we had before.
And the most sleeper perk is Gift of pain
GoP is an awful perk. Just...awful. It can work on instadown killers, but you're generally better off with Surge.
16% would be a bit meh on it's own, but add in SH reliance and it falling off if you get injured, and it's just crap. GoP is basically code for 'let me get a quick bodyblock in then go heal in a boon'.
If a killer has good down pressure (Nurse, spirit, blight) you can get amazing value from this perk.
These are the exact killers that wouldn't want GoP, because they frequently injure multiple people. GoP could be slightly useful on instadowners.
I was running gift of pain, agi, pain res on trapper and had some great games with it.
GoP was barely doing anything. You were getting your value from Agi and PR, which is a solid combo, but you're putting all your eggs into the SH basket and some maps will just RNG your entire build. I've had Midwich, RPD, Eyrie and MD games where all 4 SH perks were together, in a part of the map you'd never go to.
It feels really bad because it's one thing or another. It might not be camping all the time but then it might be tunneling. Personally I feel like a see camping more than 1/20 games. Then again it might just be that the negative experiences stick
Trust me, it's the latter. I don't have any stats from before 6.1.0, but it's substantially rarer now and a lot of different folks have remarked on this. It still happens, sure, but it has never been less powerful than it is now, at least in recent memory.
Unless you're on a chainsaw or maybe an IT3 Myers, it's a huge gamble.
There were rulebooks for both sides on release.
You're...still talking about the one by Samination, right? Or the one by Jaimie?
Both of these are parody.
Why are you taking parody seriously?
Ayrun is a .01% player. There is a massive difference even going down to top 1%.
And?
There's a massive difference going down to the top 1% of killers too.
I find camping to be a cheap and a extremely boring tactic for both sides. I'd much rather play a full meta loadout and go for hooks than be perkless but having to camp/tunnel.
Sure. Camping sucks. Aside from fixing a couple of exploity tricks to bypass BT, there's not much more that can be done aside from removing hook grabs (something I've suggested in multiple threads).
But, yet again, this is another topic.
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Doesn't quitters show there is maybe an issue going on? I also don't see how that how that would have an effect on kill rates. Are you getting games where survivors just straight up give up at the start of the game? Are you running certain build/playstyles that would cause them to do this? I personally rarely see players give up at the very start on killer. Most of the time players going next is in a game I'm in full control over. Them going next has no impact on the results of the game. My recent killers have been pinhead, nurse, and trapper. I would say 2 of the killers survivors typically hate facing.
You don't need to balance swf and soloq differently though. The entire problem right now is soloq is basically nerfed while swf stays the same. If there is a gap between soloq and swf, why would you nerf the weaker one and keep the stronger the same? If reassurance made the UI bar turn white would that change anything for swf? I would love to see that for soloq as it would make the value of the perk closer to what swf gets from it. It's simple things that doesn't affect on swf but can help bridge the gap.
Game delay is game delay. NWO is a phenomenal game delay perk. Something like CI, DL,NWO, Noed is a great all round build. It's also really good if you do slow, slow, NWO, flex. As long as it isn't your only slowdown I think it is really solid(to not struggle with getting max stack and having the tempo into endgame).
Myers, Freddy, and Demo are all killer that love CI.
My meta build in 6.0 was CI, pain res, pop on every killer. This patch I don't think I have a single duplicate build. CI, sloppy, jolt, enfury, save, brutal, agi, pain res, DL, NWO, BBQ, Lethal, Floods, Brine, Eruption, Gift of pain, noed, and bamboozle.
90/84=107 and sloppy makes heals take 20 seconds. So if you heal it takes 8 seconds longer since it is 2 players taking 4 seconds to heal and when that survivor does a gen it now takes 17 seconds longer from start to finish. The counterplay to this perk is not healing. Lets look at the math for your counterplay. It takes 40 seconds of efficiency to heal with a player with sloppy (20 seconds with 2 players). You then you are maybe spending 10 seconds to find the killer and another 10 to get into the boon. I think boon takes 24 seconds to heal in which is a total of 84 seconds of efficiency. You would be healing regardless so you take the 40 seconds away and are left with 44 seconds of wasted gen time to remove the perk.
Nope players in my trapper games were healing off hook. I gained insane value from the perk because they didn't want to stay injured. Now for trapper it isn't that crazy because you just stay injured and spread out, but I would say it is still an underrated perk.
Yea I'm not seeing the reduction on those playstyles. If a killer is losing it's an expected thing now.
No, there was like actual rules the player base made so everyone could have fun. Keep in mind I could go into a game and if were not a trapper I could just stay at an actual infinite and you couldn't do anything about it. I even remember the devs saying you just need to mind game them XD. I think even Ayrun has talked about missing old dbd because the player base was smaller and players would care about the other sides enjoyment. I remember seeing it in a video where there was drama about a bubba camping or something. Some streamer vs streamer bs where he was talking about how much better old dbd while the guy was camping. Couldn't find the exact video but someone made a video on the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBv9tXOir4M
They could make reassurance make the person hook bar turn white to show the other soloq survivors that they can sit on gens. There is already a perk that deals with camping and for some reason it's much better for swf than soloq. Simple info like that can go a long way.
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Doesn't quitters show there is maybe an issue going on?
Yes. It shows that the penalties aren't strong enough.
Every team MP game I can think of that didn't have strong penalties for quitting was ruined by it.
I also don't see how that how that would have an effect on kill rates.
A single suicide generally means a 4k.
Are you getting games where survivors just straight up give up at the start of the game?
Frequently on the first down/hook, but sometimes later.
Are you running certain build/playstyles that would cause them to do this?
Nope. And you'll see when I do my dataset thing. There was a tiny difference in quitting rate (like...2%) between games where I camped and games where I 2 hooked everyone. Flans or streamers made 0 difference. Which killer or perks I picked made 0 difference.
The only thing that decreased quitting was basically just letting them win.
The entire problem right now is soloq is basically nerfed while swf stays the same.
Uh...what?
Solo is about to get a massive help with the new status icons.
Not going to bother with the build stuff, as that's a totally different topic.
Yea I'm not seeing the reduction on those playstyles.
Again, you'll see in my dataset. But you can also compare the kill rates before and after 6.1.0 on 'camper' killers.
If a killer is losing it's an expected thing now.
Yes, because it's a roll of the dice and maybe snags them a kill. Do you...just expect killers to stand and face a wall or something?
Seriously, if you're going to begrudge a killer that 1k and maybe a comeback when they've got 2 hooks and the final gen is about to pop...that's really, really petty and rather meanspirited.
No, there was like actual rules the player base made so everyone could have fun.
I spent a good hour this morning looking for anything that predates the parody, and nope - nothing. Unless you've got an actual link, I'm pressing doubt.
They could make reassurance make the person hook bar turn white to show the other soloq survivors that they can sit on gens. There is already a perk that deals with camping and for some reason it's much better for swf than soloq. Simple info like that can go a long way.
You mean like...maybe some sort of custom status icons to let other solo players know what you're doing at any point in time?
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I personally don't see players dc or going next right away. The only time I had serious issues with that is when I was playing Nurse when everyone was abusing omega blink.
soloq changes do nothing for me. All I see it doing is helping players with bad game sense and a qol buff in general. Without a doubt a buff, but knowing that players are being worthless in game doesn't magically change the outcome. If I were really far away from the hooked guy, then I'm sitting on my gen. This buff helps when there is another survivor really far away thinking the same thing. I rarely find myself in this scenario though. Maybe the chase thing is big, but I really don't expect the bar to move at all with the change. It was a bigger problem an entire year ago, but soloq is in a much worse spot now compared to then.
There is no form post with players exchanging rules lol. It was basically what players knew was unfun and would punish players that would abuse unfun things. The player base was smaller back then so if you got a rep for being a little ######### head then you were going to have a bad time. Ohtofu has talked about the good ol days of dbd. Even back then I think Zubatlel went on the Africa server because they dead and made farming parties for legacy. The rule book was basically you don't do unfun things and neither will I.
Does reassurance show on the icon in the new update? Is there an icon when a killer is camping hook? Me seeing players not doing gens doesn't magically make me win more games. Hell, sometimes I don't use bond or kindred for the sake of my mental health. Can't wait to be running the killer and 2 players are doing totems!!!
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You sitting up here demanding more Killer buffs but go in every other thread ADMITTING... SELF ADMITTING you aren't very good as Killer.
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I personally don't see players dc or going next right away
Then you're either being disingenuous, or should start playing the lottery TODAY.
soloq changes do nothing for me. All I see it doing is helping players with bad game sense and a qol buff in general. Without a doubt a buff, but knowing that players are being worthless in game doesn't magically change the outcome. If I were really far away from the hooked guy, then I'm sitting on my gen. This buff helps when there is another survivor really far away thinking the same thing. I rarely find myself in this scenario though. Maybe the chase thing is big, but I really don't expect the bar to move at all with the change. It was a bigger problem an entire year ago, but soloq is in a much worse spot now compared to then.
So...what's your solution? BHVR have said emphatically that they'll never balance solo and SWF differently. You can't buff solos in a way that won't buff SWF.
Solo queue is about in the same spot, from what I've been seeing. Baseline BT was a massive solo buff.
There is no form post with players exchanging rules lol. It was basically what players knew was unfun and would punish players that would abuse unfun things. The player base was smaller back then so if you got a rep for being a little ######### head then you were going to have a bad time. Ohtofu has talked about the good ol days of dbd. Even back then I think Zubatlel went on the Africa server because they dead and made farming parties for legacy. The rule book was basically you don't do unfun things and neither will I.
So what exactly was the rulebook you've been on about?
Yes, smaller communities have a different vibe. But had this community stayed small, the game would have died.
'Unfun' is subjective. Some folks hate playing against Hag. Find someone who doesn't dislike something. Because what people don't like, at the end of the day, is losing.
Does reassurance show on the icon in the new update? Is there an icon when a killer is camping hook? Me seeing players not doing gens doesn't magically make me win more games. Hell, sometimes I don't use bond or kindred for the sake of my mental health. Can't wait to be running the killer and 2 players are doing totems!!!
Then...why not find an SWF?
Reass - no idea. Yes for camping.
I have a feeling that you're not going to be satisfied with any attempts to help solo queue that BHVR is willing to try, so I guess you have two options at this point.
I'll @ whoever I like.
No, I admit that I'm not very good at survivor. I'm decent on killer, but you know - always something new to learn.
Also...you know, if you're going to flame and make a fool of yourself, the least you could do was be coherent about it.
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I watch umbra, ohtofu, bronx, and hexy and only really notice problems in hexy's games. Hexy is also the only one that camps and tunnels. The dude even has the fishing soundtrack from OoT for when he camps with wraith. I'm guessing I don't really see it since players doing this wouldn't stay at the soft cap.
You could have reassurance show white for the survivors hook progress to show everyone that they don't have to save. You can do a system where survivors can callout if they are being camped. You can make survivors not have collision coming off hook and then make otr work for one hook state (like ds) while working with endurance. Can change eruption to 15% and 10 sec incap. Are any of those things buffs to swf? I would argue that it would be nerfing swf while giving large buffs to soloq.
Camping isn't fun. I've played since day one and so I'm from era of the game where players cared about other fun to a extent. Think that is why I mentioned it since you were asking about camping.
If they show camping then it will help with gen efficiency. Players will no longer waste time getting off gens just to find the player is being camped. I would then say doing things like I mentioned up top to further bridge the gap.
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Every killer camps and tunnels sometimes - because, at the highest levels of play, that's how you have to play. Did you watch the CC?
As to your suggestions:
- Sure...but that would do less than the status icons.
- They have an icon for camp, but the commonly accepted 'wave your arms up and down' still works.
- That would be basically free unhooks. That would be a massive buff to SWF.
- So...almost as bad as pre-rework Eruption. Gotcha. So...just PR+DMS every match then? Okay. You'd have to buff the numbers substantially. And that's never, ever, ever going to happen.
- How in the blithering hell would that be a nerf to SWF?
Yes. 'I've played since day 1'. Gotcha.
Again, that is not an argument. That is you trying to substitute arbitrary numbers in place of an argument. You may have played this game for a long time, but I've lived for a long time, and in my experience...well, experience often just means you've been wrong for longer.
AFAIK, there is an icon for camping. And no, 1 would be a big meh, one is already in there, one would be silly, one would just be gutting a perk.
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I don't watch the cc, but I did hear they changed the rules to make the win condition off hooks and not kills.
Can you go over how camping works when survivors can stay on hook for nearly 3 minutes per stage and then have another player trade out?
How is a player with bt not able to body block and then having otr actually do what it is intended to do a buff for swf? They can keep the survivor on hook with reassurance if you proxy camp and if you leave and come back they can use "for the people". I don't see how you can legit tunnel and camp a swf that are bringing an actual build. Maybe I'm missing something here.
Eruption would go from 40 seconds vs soloq to 25. Old pop was 20 seconds. A good swf is 9 seconds now vs 13.5 with the "nerf". Also, how is this perk not always used with brine? You are already kicking gens and just get to freely apply eruption. I don't see this being an issue unless you are just looking to use eruption as your sole kick perk. Then again it is a buff vs swf that are able to get off the gens at the correct time. Could also remove the laughable 30 second cd.
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That rule was changed because killers were literally struggling to get a kill in some games.
Huh?
Oh I see what you mean. I thought you meant complete invulnerability. Eh...I don't see what that would really do.
You can, but it's more of a means to an end.
Eruption would only go to 25 assuming every single one hits, and that's not at all my experience.
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Makes sense
Camping and tunneling vs swf. How do you camp a player that can be on the hook for 3 minutes with reassurance? Are you talking about comp and such where they don't allow full builds on survivor and they camp and tunnel?
Because if you make otr only take one hit but work with endurance players can use base bt to body block and then still have otr if you tunnel them. A problem old bt and ds had.
And if you don't see eruption getting its secondary effect it would be a buff. It's 10% of a gen now and I was saying it should go to 15%. It would be a 15 second nerf vs soloq and a 4.5 sec buff for players that can avoid it. Seems like a very logical change.
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You're either angling for a single kill or you're trying to get people off gens and milling around the hook. Again, camping is generally a pretty high risk/high reward play unless you're just aiming for 1 kill, or being a bastard to a final pair.
Eh...I'm not sure what this would really accomplished.
Eruption would basically be a bad perk at that point. It's another high risk/high reward perk, as it has multiple conditions to do anything. It's extremely volatile, much like old Ruin used to be - because either it does nothing or it crushes face.
But again - BHVR don't generally rework regression perks. They just nerf them into uselessness.
See: Ruin, Thana.
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If you are using call of brine what other perks would you use instead of eruption if it was 15%10s? Pain res is a fairly strong perk and I don't see why you would want that over eruption if you are already using brine. I can't see how the perk isn't still very strong when paired with brine.
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Brine would be doing almost all of the heavy lifting. You'd be better of just slotting NTH...or, more likely, going PR+DMS with everyone else.
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Is there a build in the game better than brine, nowhere, erupt, pain res? I don't see an eruption nerf changing that build. It simply has great synergy with brine and would maintain its spot.
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Depends on the map and survivors. If you run that build into a bad map/good team/good SWF, you're going to get pantsed. Too many eggs, too small a basket.
PR has a pretty big anti-synergy with it, actually. People are doing that one because they're silly and took ALL the T1 perks from Otz's video then bashed them together, or something.
If I was going to build around CoB+Eruption, it would be CoB+Eruption+LP+NTH, or PR+DMS+FOR+Discordance (my go to build). Probably more something like PR+DMS+DH+Undying on Hag and Trapper, although I might just go Surge+CI on those instead of PR.
But other killers...I go deeper on info.
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There isn't any anti-synergy with pain res. You kick gens and apply brine+eruption and see if survivors are nearby. You down to get eruption and then pain res for more slowdown.
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The issue with that build is that often, once people know what you're doing, they'll let that gen regress unless it's almost done and just rotate. It makes it very hard to apply Eruption.
Now, if you wanted - say - to make PR erase Eruption from that gen? That's a sensible change.
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What... Who are you playing that does that.
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SWFs and the better solos I face.
It's a build that has a lot of holes. No lethality or real info outside of NTH, which...is a good perk, but it doesn't help you in chase.
I'd much rather replace PR here with Lethal.
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What good teams are so poor on gen eff that when you hook a survivor their top gen doesn't have a lot of progress? Like am I misunderstand you? You're saying the counter to that build is leaving when you get hit by pain res if the gen isn't nearly finish. As in you are on a gen with 40% prog and you get hit down to 25% you then go find another gen while your gen full reset because that will counter gen kicking?
No top build is running double info. The meta before was 4 slowdown and now it's more 3 and a flex spot.
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What good teams are so poor on gen eff that when you hook a survivor their top gen doesn't have a lot of progress? Like am I misunderstand you? You're saying the counter to that build is leaving when you get hit by pain res if the gen isn't nearly finish. As in you are on a gen with 40% prog and you get hit down to 25% you then go find another gen while your gen full reset because that will counter gen kicking?
It's not quite that binary. Here's how I see folks trying to deal with it.
- Split up on gens.
- Note which gens are Erupted.
- PR comes in - if another gen has just popped, leave it.
- If another gen hasn't just popped and yours is viable, release for PR then slam it.
- If it's like 40%? Judgement call I guess, based on what other survivors are doing.
The first prize, natch, is to dodge the Eruption. If you want, I think...Ayrun did a recent 'speedrunning DbD' stream with some mates - note how they handle Eruption and rotate. Of course you won't be able to coordinate quite as well in solo as they did, but the same principle applies.
No top build is running double info.
Uhhh...yeah they absolutely are. Depending on the killer, LP+BBQ or LP+NTH are absolutely used.
The meta before was 4 slowdown
No, it absolutely wasn't.
now it's more 3 and a flex spot.
That's not what I'm seeing at all. It can be, sure, but looking at the top 10 most common builds on NL right now, excluding meme builds and adepts, there's 3 regressions, 4 regressions, 2 regressions and even two separate 'all info' builds.
Most commonly though, it's Erupt+CoB+x+y.
What's also interesting is that Eruption is declining in usage slightly, probably because more folks are learning to play around it.
It wouldn't surprise me if this is an issue that fixes itself.
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If you pre-leave I kick gen, or don't and I hit you and then kick gen. You should always be looking to split gens vs any build.
I don't see how noting which gens have eruption on matters. Are you just going to let those freely regress with brine and waste time going over to tap and find other gens? But there also isn't even a point to tap the gen because eruption will make it start regressing again.
If you leave a gen that gets hit by pr, you made pr do 40% of a gen, and now you are wasting time finding a new gen. Like how is letting a gen full reset bad for the killer? You just don't do a gen that has low progress if the killer comes to kick it and then leaves(its eruption). That has no relation to pr though. I don't see how there is any anti-synergy in that build.
Survivors have set spawns. LP isn't that crazy of a perk unless you are Nurse.
The meta before was 4 slowdown.
You don't need to run meta to win games right now. I'm winning almost all of my games with base-kit Nurse playing the entire map with 1 slowdown. If I was going against equally skilled opponents I lose 10/10 games with that playstyle and build. NL shows what good perks are. If you look at the perks being used none of those perks are bad. There is a difference between top builds and good builds. The top build on demo is 3 slowdown and bamboozle vs good players and save vs bad. If you don't want to run bam then it's 4 slowdown perks.
I've completely dropped eruption because it made games at soft cap way too easy. Even for my demo I have been trying out agi, gop, pr, dl. Another build I've been trying is enfury, ci, pr.
Yes the most broken killer perk in the games is going to fix itself out... The only killer perk that has been this bad was undying in recent memory. It's 40 seconds if a survivor gets hit ands you can apply it to multiple gens. If 3 survivors get hit it's literally more than an entire gens worth of progress lost. That's off a single down. Again the perk being nerfed by 33% would still make it the best perk in a brine build and brine builds are a top build in the game.
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It baffles me every time. And I’m not even mad at the killer. I’m mad at my teammates who have 600+ hours and still manage to play like rank 20s. Had to rage quit out of a game because there were still 4 gens remaining after 5 minutes. When I got hooked for the first time I realized why. Felix was crouching on the second floor and did jack #########. Claudettes were playing edge lords. And the only gen that got done was done by me before the killer found me. I hate to say it but some survivors are BOOSTED. Either by their swf or by playing like rats. And whenever I see a killer get a 4K even tho he is not that good at counter looping or mindgames,I wanna quit this game. I have almost 3k hours and get outplayed by killers who have 100-200,all because of my teammates not doing #########. You can be the best looper on planet earth but at some point you’re gonna run out of resources aka pallets and if the gens aren’t done by then,you’re gonna lose inevitably.
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If you pre-leave I kick gen, or don't and I hit you and then kick gen.
How?
Those gens are now regressing. You cannot apply Eruption to a regressing gen. A fairly smart play with PR is, if you can dodge it, to hide. It'll regress, killer comes to check, leaves, you jump back on it. This is also a good way, in solo, of trying to get your teammates not to 3gen you.
You should always be looking to split gens vs any build.
Eh...sorta.
Generally you start by splitting up, meaning that you should be at 2-3 gens as soon as possible. Then you'll probably need to collapse and burn your toolboxes, stakeout stacks etc. to finish the last two gens ASAP, generally with one person leading the killer off and the other three destroying one with PTS or what have you.
I don't see how noting which gens have eruption on matters. Are you just going to let those freely regress with brine and waste time going over to tap and find other gens? But there also isn't even a point to tap the gen because eruption will make it start regressing again.
There's no point in doing dishes - they're just going to get dirty again.
Unless they have NTH, which makes things a little more complicated, you want to tap the COB/Erupted gen and then watch your allies to see when you need to let go. Then...you tap and continue without any worries, or maybe you eat the eruption if you poop the sheets.
Again - people love to pretend that eruption is hitting the entire team whenever someone goes down - but with a bit of foresight and a smart build, you can avoid it fairly reliably.
If you leave a gen that gets hit by pr, you made pr do 40% of a gen, and now you are wasting time finding a new gen. Like how is letting a gen full reset bad for the killer? You just don't do a gen that has low progress if the killer comes to kick it and then leaves(its eruption). That has no relation to pr though. I don't see how there is any anti-synergy in that build.
Wild exaggeration for effect. Moving on.
Survivors have set spawns. LP isn't that crazy of a perk unless you are Nurse
LP is incredible for a lot of killers. Artist. Ghostface. Myers. Nurse. Blight - basically any killer that can rapidly escalate pressure off a good chase. It's not so much about knowing where they are, as it is knowing who's heading into a weaker area of the map. And the bonus aura time is just gravy.
The meta before was 4 slowdown.
It absolutely was not.
Yes the most broken killer perk in the games is going to fix itself out...
It's usage rates look like they peaked and are now falling off. This probably means that survivors are starting to adapt to it.
The only killer perk that has been this bad was undying in recent memory.
It's...interesting that you say 'killer perk' and not just 'perk'.
Why is that?
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That's how you play that build in general. The scenario you are saying isn't something that ever happens. Players are hitting gens and they don't get hit by pr and run to a corner or find another gen. If you get hit by pr across the map and waste time hiding that is even more value from pr. That is because not only are you wasting time sitting on your hands but you are letting a gen regress at the same time. So instead of pr being 15% it is now 15% and 1.25c/s of regression while brine is only 0.5c/s.
You run ci on Myers because of his weak start. Like it's an alternative but ci is straight up better. Blight doesn't care about LP because of his mobility. If you already know survivor spawns then the perk gives poor value for the slot. Ghostface I would assume is the same as Myers, but maybe not. Don't play him or artist so can't comment.
I mention killer perks because we are talking about killer perks?
Also, Eruption is so busted that it would still be in a top build with a 33% nerf. Only players I could see defending this are players benefiting from Eruption being broken. There is no high mmr in this game. You can play chill and win an insane% of your games, and if you disagree you can watch all the streamer that do it. Momo (blight player) is going for 1000 wins in a row without losing. I saw on his stream yesterday that he is sick of dropping the streak(noob can only get a 99.5% w/r) so he is actually going to try now and do things like camping and tunneling.
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The scenario you are saying isn't something that ever happens. Players are hitting gens and they don't get hit by pr and run to a corner or find another gen.
Uh, yeah it is. Because that's how I handle this combination, after seeing...it was either Ayrun or Spooky a bit back talking about it.
If you get hit by pr across the map and waste time hiding that is even more value from pr. That is because not only are you wasting time sitting on your hands but you are letting a gen regress at the same time.
Read what I wrote again.
Like it's an alternative but ci is straight up better.
I disagree. This is another situation where a lot of survivors won't handle it correctly, but the groups that do...well, there's a reason this is generally not permitted in comp.
Basically, you just hide in a random locker or out of the way spot, and use the 'gains' exploit to not get AFK crows. Then go back to the game as normal.
All CI is doing is making the match take 2 minutes longer. I had maybe 5 SWFs do this against me on Myers a month or so ago, which is why I don't use CI anymore on any killer that isn't a setup killer.
I mention killer perks because we are talking about killer perks?
Do you think it's fair to talk about killer perks in a vacuum, when discussing balance?
Or do we need to look at things a bit more holistically and say - what would, taking into account the past 6 years of the game and the current meta, be fairest?
Eruption is so busted that it would still be in a top build with a 33% nerf.
This is factually wrong.
This would make Eruption about as good as it was before the buff...you know, when nobody used it?
There is no high mmr in this game.
This is factually wrong.
BHVR have confirmed that there is absolutely an mmr range between x and y, with y being some point beyond the soft cap.
You can play
chillnormally but it looks chill because you've got 12,000 hours in this game, and win an insane% of your games, and if you disagree you can watch all the streamer that do iSigh. I got this far and nope, I'm done.
if you disagree you can watch all the streamer that do it. Momo (blight player) is going for 1000 wins in a row without losing
Yeah okay, no. You're just being contrarian now. Feel free to be a jerk about it as per last time (I do tend to get suckered in by this sort of cheap trick, but it really is just being a low human to insult people who don't want to spend hours pointlessly bickering), but the hypocrisy here is absolutely staggering.
You climbed down my throat when I used Ayrun as an example of someone who can excel in solo queue.
You are arguing the *exact same thing*, but now with an even more outside advantage of Blight.
This game is not Dead by Dayblight. If a killer is OP, then that killer should be balanced around the game. Not vice versa.
Yeah, cheers. I really, really cannot believe that I wasted so much time on that. Well done, I guess - because you had me going.
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I've seen maybe 2 groups every try to hide out corrupt in my entire play of dbd. One of those were actually just really scared. I run corrupt and i never see players do this. While players can, it is like locker save abusers where it basically never happened. Maybe I'm not playing in all those comp games like you are.
Isn't it a whataboutism? Oh eruption is op but what about survivor perks. Like the entire balance talk is in regard to killer and how killer perks are stacking up to each other. How are survivor perks relevant to that? What does release coh have to do with me comparing eruption to undying?
Eruption wasn't used before because it was ci, pop, pain res on every killer every game. It would still be a top perk in a top build, and I don't see how you can debate that. You can't push back on the perk not staying in the spot since what perk gives more value and a brine build is and will stay a top build for killer.
When you queue up the games caps your matchmaking mmr to 1600. You can gain more mmr but it is irrelevant because when you hit the ready button it's capping that to 1600. A 2800 player is matchmaking with players at the 1600. Like I don't know if you have play competitive games seriously before, but in those games you are at 50% w/r or going higher in mmr until that happens. There is not a single game I have ever seen where players are winning hundreds of games in a row and there was matchmaking for them. The entire reason player can even do this is because they are smurfing. However, in other games if you smurf would will gain enough mmr to then be placed vs other skilled players to then start losing games more and more often.
I'm using momo as a statement there can't be high mmr. He is my proof. Let momo guide you to reality that there is no such thing as high mmr in dbd. Prayge
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It's a weird game for balance. Every asymmetric game is. The game is designed for 4 survs to work together against 1 killer. If even 1 survivor is substandard the whole thing falls apart. And even with a decent team, all it takes is a mistake or two and surv team will crumble. Because killer is so powerful that they can snowball very quickly.
Individually survs have to be extremely good to draw out a chase with killer long enough to be useful. It's hard to be consistent with that. I currently have 20 days of total playtime. Sometimes I can absolutely run the jewels on a killer, and other times I just get dropped extremely quickly. It's just how the flow of each match goes.
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