First chase is too important
Hello i play mainly killer and i wanted to ask you what you think about the first chase.
In my opinion the first chase is way to important for the rest of the match, if you make the chase but cannot catch the survivor (for example because hes a better player as you) you nearly allready lost the game, because 2 gens will normaly pop in the next few seconds.
And your 1vs4 5gen became a 1vs4 3gen.
You lost any pressure on the enemy team, with your next chase (even if you make it this time) another gen is done (because in that time 3 people can be on generators). And you have 1vs4 2gen.
Comments
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The better player should win, but yeah it is overly punishing early on as killer as that's when you have the least map pressure.
Honestly I think almost everyone in the community thinks Corrupt should've been base kit at this point.
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It's really just spawns. 4 man split off the rip is a death sentence for most of the killers in the game.
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Yes...but it's just as important for survivors.
A quick down early on basically gives you control of the match for a while. Two quick kills and you snowball almost instantly.
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In my opinion its not that important as it is for killer. I would call it pretty mutch the standart that the survivor wins the first chase. Its compareable with a doubledown of the killer at the start. a doubledown, brings a killer at least 3 maybe 4 downs and the survivors have done nothing on the gens.
But thats a double down. The killer is in the same situation when Since 3 other guys were making gens you only have maximum 4, but more realisticly 3 gens left until you have your first hook.
Remember that the survivor only have to do 5*90=450sec gen. If you fail the first chase, and hook on the 2nd, 2 Survivors did the whole time gens. And one did like 50% of the time a gen. So your first hook comes like at 90sec, that means 2.5 gens are done when you are at your first hook.
I agree with both. I dont say that i have a solution to the problem, just wanted to ask you guys how you think about the situation
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Mm. Okay, think of it this way.
I load in, the Claudette goes down almost immediately. It's a Pig.
This gives the killer two stacks of STBFL, an active trap, a Pain Resonance+DMS on my gen and now I need to go and unhook her, or someone else does.
That's two survivors off a gen and a killer with momentum.
Now, the Nea unhooking the Claudette misplays and gets grabbed, trapped, no PR this time but another DMS. And that's basically GG right there.
Of course not every situation is quite like this, it could be better or worse. But that's what I mean.
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Your situation:
- Killer finds early a survivor
- Killer injuries survivor early in chase
- killer downs survivor early in chase
- STBFL
- PIG
- Pain resonance
- DMS
- killer camps
- 2nd survivor doesnt see the killer (because its a stealth killer)
- 2nd survivor gets graped
= you are in a huge disadvantage
My situation:
- Killer loses the first chase
= you are in a huge disadvantage
The difference between the first and any other chase is that 3 Survivors are on gens. Im not sure why you made so mutch condition to your situation because the base problem that puts you in the disadvantage is that you have 2 survivors on hooks. the other conditions just make your situation worser, but the problem doesnt change that mutch later in the game.
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Yes... first chase is pretty important
If the Killer wins the chase... then one Survivor is on a hook and then one Survivor needs to save... then another Survivor (possibly) is in chase which leaves one Survivor on Gens
If the Killer loses the chase then 2-3 Gens are getting done... Killer is now looking for the next Survivor to chase
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Mid game is more important. I've had loads of games where I've started really well and have the upper hand but then they recover mid game and get back into it leaving me scrambling around late game.
You need constant presure ALL game every game. Any lapse and the survivors can turn it around.
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Indeed your first chase is the most important part for killer games,it sets the pace for the rest of the game ,,Picking your chases is one of the most important aspects for killer,,Taking a long chase with a good looper will most likely cost you the game unless survivors somehow throw the game
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Im not sure if you understood my statement right. Im not talking about a "good" early start, im talking about a bad one and the impact on the game.
A start where the killer gets the first survivor and hooks him is pretty mutch the standart. Im talking about the situation and the consequences when this doesnt happen. Ofc you still have to play the mid and endgame and cannot go afk after you did 1 hook.
You need constant presure ALL game every game
Thats the point. If you are losing the first chase, you dont have any pressure and 3 survivors on gens. You basicly instand loose 1-2 gens without any hooks.
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Rest assured most survivors think that it is the best time to cleanse totems and search chests.
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No it goes both ways quick down for killer and is usually win. Ofcourse sometimes survivors can make comeback but so can killer. Usually I only lose that kind of game by going for multiple hooks like trying to 2 hook everyone before killing. Usually I achieve that but still 2 or 3 survivors can escape as that still takes lot of time and is not optimal playstyle for killer.
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The first chase is important for both sides.
It's importance grows exponentially if either side is playing hard.
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No. What makes you think that? We are comparing it to the "standard".
Is the standard game for you that you make 2gens in the first 2 minutes?
So basicly you think 1vs4 on 3 gens is the normal?
Why is it important for survivor? What would you say is the "standard" and how is your game getting harder when this standard does not apply? What makes the first chase more important as the forth?
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That is why you need to pick your fights.
If you chase a survivor, identify asap whether they are good or not and what loop they are at.
If they are strong or at a strong loop, or both, then leave them and find the weaker link.
Even against strong survivors, there is always 1 that is weaker than the others.
Go for them and increase the chances more towards you.
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Thats all true. But not what this thread is about. In the first chase, well you only found 1 survivor. This is the first time you are seeing him run. You dont know if its a good survivor or a bad survivor. And how long do you need to see it if its a good survivor?
So lets say you find your first survivor, follow him for lets say 10sec and think "well thats a good survivor" are you stopping the chase? I mean you dont know where the others are and dont know how good they are.
You are saying "Even against strong survivors, there is always 1 that is weaker than the others." but how do you know in your first chase which one?
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A bad first chase is an issue but that's usually just a weak survivor getting caught and will happen repeatedly. But it's the late game that really counts.
The first 2/3 gens are so easy to do without tying up the killer in chase. You can stealth it. But when you are down to last 1/2 gens the killer's focus narrows and it's more important for someone to be able to run a good chase to keep the killer away. If you're unlucky/bad enough to get 3 genned, then it's possible to finish it. But you need at least 3 survs with almost perfect co-ordination, to get it finished and flip flop the killer between gens while still making progress. Or a killer who will play ball and commit to a chase and allow the gen to be finished.
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And thats exacly what i said. The first chase doesnt matter mutch for the survivor.
You are talking about "bad player" and "good player" that you have or dont have. They are not more important earlier or later in the game. A good player who can drag the killer away. Im talking about 1 chase that is just 10 times more important as any other chase.
Losing the first chase as killer means loosing 2 gens. No other chase is that important for the killer. No other chase gives him that mutch of an handcap. Losing the first game basicly mean you are starting a new game but instead of 5 gens there are only 3. And if you are unlucky your 3gen is allready gone.
And for that 2 gens gone, the killer got nothing. No pressure, nothing (since he didnt got the survivor).
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I sometimes win games in the first chase as survivor.
Using WoO + Exhaustion, it is not hard to burn enough time to guarantee 2-3 gens are done if people are M1'ing on gens.
If RNG is REALLY good and the killer overcommits, all gens can be done on rare occasions.
A lot of people have trouble dropping chase after the first hit due to 'sunk cost' mentality, which works in the survivors' favor as well.
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The direct answer to your question is that if a survivor is doing well/winning the first chase, there is no other objective for the remaining survivors other than to M1, which advances their only objective. An efficient team will do just that. The longer a survivor lasts in the first chase, the longer people can M1 without needing to Unhook/Flashlight Save/etc that pulls them off gens.
As soon as a survivor loses the first chase, multiple objectives are created in addition to gens (IE saving, healing, bodyblocking, etc).
In subsequent chases/scenarios, a survivor may already be on a hook/chase could be near one of the few remaining gens/it could be on a survivor that has not been previously hooked which doesn't put as much pressure on teams looking for a 4e/etc.
A fast first chase in the killer's favor lets them either try to camp/tunnel someone out asap if they want, go after a fresh survivor/play fair with less consequence, etc.
A fast first chase for killer is just as important as a long first chase as survivor, imo.
Of course, this is all my own opinion, and I could totally be wrong.
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But that's the thing, I was saying the first 2 gens aren't really that important. I've had a lot of matches as killer and surv where the balance has tipped when there are 1 or 2 gens left. You can lose first chase and pull it back in the late game.
If you have a couple of decent regression perks, holding down a 3 gen as killer is crazy easy and you can often down multiple survs because they either stay near gens or lose. One slip there and killer snowballs.
If you find you're losing to much in the early game. Don't go for downs straight away. Often the first surv you run into is seeking you out unless you chase them off a gen. Don't commit, ignore them or injure them and let them run off. find the first gen being worked on and pressure it can help stop those early pops. Corrupt intervention is an awesome perk for this. Forces them to look for gens and narrows your focus early game. Or gives you prep time to setup traps/portals etc with trapper, hag or demo.
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I agree with a lot. And this multiple objects that you create are important to give a flow to the game.
But the problem that you are saying is that you have a tunneling and camping killer. Not that this happens after the first chase. This "multiple objects" are important that the games takes longer as 5 minutes.
And im not talking about a "fast first chase". im talking about a succsessful first chase. If the chase needs 60sec but you have a hook, its not good but manageable. If you have a 60sec chase and you got nothing, you realy realy have a problem. If a survivor gets catched in the first chase basicly the normal game goes on.
Alot of killer will start to tunnel or camp after they lost the first chase, because 1 survivor less is pretty mutch the only way to get out of that situation.
You seem to misunderstand it a bit. I never said the first gen is the most important gen, thats obv. the last one. Im also not saying that its impossible to win.
If you loose the first chase, your 3gen might be allrdy gone, since the chasing took you too long and you dont have pressure to stop them with the gens. With 4 survivors alive and noone of them on hook they can basicly to every generator they want.
Often the first surv you run into is seeking you out unless you chase them off a gen. Don't commit, ignore them or injure them and let them run off.
I dont agree with this, why should the first survivor seek you out, when he have no clue where you are and he can do gens instead? A survivor who only wants to train running and dont care about the win maybe yes, but normaly not. And the idea you are talking here is playing around with 2 survivors without dowing anybody. What you are forgetting is that the 2 other survivors are still making gens. If you go on with this game for 5minutes you lost it.
Corrupt intervention is an awesome perk for this.
Thats true, i guess thats why allready one guy said maybe this should become baseline since its a more healthy play
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The game as it is now is balanced around the last few generators being the most difficult to repair given the Killer has less to patrol.
Generally speaking as Killer you’d also want enough resources to have been wasted by this time so this patrol has quick chases and subsequent downs can be placed in the shorter patrol route, which feeds into the above.
It would be interesting to see how the game would play out if Survivors had less resources to start with, and could build resources to a limit over the course of the match.
Might make the start less pressuring for the Killer, but also allow Survivors to recoup lost resources to make the chases harder at the end.
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If the team is good and repairs gens in a strategic way, you can make the last 2 gens hell to patrol, thr fact that the majority of the playerbase still doesn't do this is baffling.
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The first chase is over when the survivor is down, not when they're dead! Stop tunneling! \s
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Yep, partly because you have the time to draw the Killer away from those generators in long chases because of the amount of resources at the start.
Though the Killer could just forgo chases and just protect the three Gen to begin with, playing a game of attrition. That part is still a bit problematic.
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Good point but with medkits and a number of perks that allow survivors to recover almost instantly, there are quite a few killers that have trouble applying and more important holding up pressure.
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This is why I think Lethal Pursuer is an extremely good perk if the killer has no other aura perks. Being able to break up survivors working on the gen they spawned on and then getting a quick down as quickly as possible just raises your odds for success exponentially.
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It's not possible to remove a 3 gen by popping 2 gens. There will always be a viable 3 gen left afterwards. And like i said first chase only is bad for you if you let it be so. If you know you can't end it fast enough. Abandon it and pressure gens so they don't pop
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ofcourse it is possible depending on the map and spawn. But lets say they did the middle gen. Now you have 2, 2Gen sitatuation and you can defend one. So you want to abandon the other 3 generators for free? Or do you want to leave your precious 3gen that you plan to defend and risk it with 4survivors alive and ready?
And thats the Situation how you are starting the game. Because you dindt catch the survivor. You got nothing in return.
Abandon it and pressure gens so they don't pop
So you are going to a different survivor. Than 2 SURVIVORS are still on gens you never saw. And this 2 gens will pop. Im not sure if you understand it right. The problem is not that 2 gens pop, that will eventually happen anyway. Its that you get nothing in return
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Ofcourse it is. But lets say they make the middle gen and now you have two 3gens left. One a bit better one a bit worser, what do you do now?
Defend your 3gen and sacrefice the other 3 gens? Or risk your 3gen? But yes thats possible, you can play as killer with Eruption+call of brine and focus totaly on your 3gen. The survivos will have to come. But yes this works, it works way to good. But the question is do we want this 10Minutes 3gen standoffs?
If you know you can't end it fast enough. Abandon it and pressure gens so they don't pop
But how fast do you know it? And than if you find a new survivor, there are still 2 survivors on gen that you never saw AND the 3te survivor you dindt catched is on a gen now.
We are all talking over a down, not over a kill.
I see alot of people here saying "yes but 3gen". You are all right. If you plan on 3gen with Eruption and other slowdown perk, the first chase doesnt matter that mutch, even the first 3-4 generators doesnt matter mutch since you make nearly all hooks with that last 3gen situation. But is that a gameplay that you prefere? Is that the solution if you dont win the first chase?
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Sometimes I'll give up outlying gens to get a 3 gen. If it's a good 3 gen. You patrol and pressure them. Get a couple hooks and hopefully a kill in the process.
As for identifying what survs to ignore, it's not 100% reliable but there are factors to look for. High prestige, bright colours, flashlights are often signs of a surv who's good at chase. In the chase you can often get a feel for how good they are, chaining one pallet to another, and anyone who makes good use of double vault tiles is usually a nightmare to catch.
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I know, that's why I added the "\s"... twas but a joke.
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