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Let's talk about Eruption, Prove Thyself and other perks
So, bhvr announced that they are going to change perks again (probably same thing that happened in patch 6.1.0). Alongside with this news they specifically said about eruption changes. And don't take me wrong, i hate the fact that this is so OP right now and has almost no counterplay but... what about survivors perks? Prove Thyself is OP too, and it isn't the only one that needs a change. I hope that bhvr won't do with eruption and any other perk the same thing that they did to Thana or Ruin
So... what would do about some of the most problematic perks?
Personally I would made Eruption block the gens instead of giving incapacitated status with maybe a bigger cooldown and Prove Thyself to give you, let's say, 10% speedboost to repairing when you work with at least one teammate (numbers can be adjusted ofcourse).
Comments
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PT isn't an issue.
It saves you what, 7 seconds? It's better for you if Survivors group up on gens, even if they have the massively OP perk Prove Thyself that shaves off a completely ludicrous 7 seconds.
I really wouldn't care if it got nerfed because it doesn't do anything anyway, but I think we should be focusing on different perks that ACTUALLY cause issues.
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You would make Eruption to Dead Mans Switch without hooking?
Okay... disagree.
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That is the reason why I asked "what would do about some of the most problematic perks?"
It is just my opinion about PT but u know, some people think that eruption is a balanced perk
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Not for 30 seconds but for 10 or 15, why not?
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Just let Incapacitated not block everything. Repairing + Healing blocked, Cleansing Totems, Opening Chests or Blessing Totems should work.
A copy of DMS is no idea, its still just a copy.
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twins nerf
if anything incapacitated needs a buff to force survivors to get rid of victor, with eruption losing the effect
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Yeah, maybe you're right
But still
Better than the current one
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Twins can get nerfed more than they already are with the insane healing speed and CoH?
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Killer that you have on profile pic shows that EVERY killer can be nerfed more no matter what
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If Eruption is the only perk left on killerside which is, as devs love to say, "just a liiiiiiiiiiitle too opressive", kill it. For that, I want old Pop back. Deal?
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Im still waiting for limited range for the Dream Projection 😅 to finally bury Freddy.
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Twins actively uses Incap, though, so a nerf to the Incap Status would be a massive nerf to Twins.
The reality is that Perks shouldn't be using Incap, or, if they do, they should last a very short amount of time. It's a status that was designed to severely detriment a single target for a specific Killer, and now every Killer has access to it and spreads it more than the Killer it was designed for.
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I would say it's an issue not due to efficiency but due to commitment. Being able to reliably and repeatably do gens in that little time with two people leaves little room for the killer the defend the gen or interrupt it. Unlike toolboxes, the perk has no upper limit on how much it can be used but unlike resilience or fast track, it can be used right out the gate. If it only worked early due to having capped usage or late due to needing to be earned, which could be a funny play on words given its name, I wouldn't mind it or if it was a little slower but doing a gen in that time repeatably is a bit much. Maybe it's a play-style thing and against other players it's not too bad but it's not something you can exactly adapt to in a match because you never have a solid idea on if they have it unless it's too late. Hyperfocus is inconsistent when you try to use it due to needing to get skill checks, resilience doesn't work early game and toolboxes have limited use, prove doesn't really have any of these things though. Not saying it's the end of the world biggest problem ever but suggesting it gets changed isn't unreasonable. I will say however, it's a perk that is useful for breaking 3 gens which I can appreciate being in the game.
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A deal indeed but... how about old ruin numbers too (kill switch may stay)
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Probably the best summary about PT I could imagine, giod job about it (plus i also admire the 3 gen part of it)
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Ruin is trash, 100% or 500%. Same like Boons, you should be able to revive your destroyed Hex somehow. At the moment, the only hex Id like to use is Plaything and Haunted Ground
All the Totem-Spots are well known and Ruin doesnt survive the first minute if u do not babysit your totem anyway.
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There are still perks like Pentimento and Thrill but it is true that hexes have a bit of a problem. I mean, killer has to bring another perk to save one of his hexes, meanwhile survs may just hold E for 14 seconds and get their boon for free
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EXACTLY. But when survivors cry loud enough the devs say: yes, nerf the ######### out of everything worth using.
While that happens, killers get a 50% Brutal Strengh.....
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I just have to ask this:
Do you know that there is a penalty for both Survivors when they repair a Gen together? And Prove Thyself just removes the Penalty and does NOT grant extra progress?
Really, asking because I have seen many people who did not know this.
@Topic:
Prove Thyself is really not a problem. For the Killer it is better if two Survivors are on one Gen with Prove Thyself compared to two Survivors on two Gens without it. The main reason why people bring Prove Thyself are just Bloodpoints, you cap out on Objectives pretty fast with it. Especially now that the BP-Gain has been buffed to 10k overall in Objectives.
I would say, if you remove the Speedboost (or rather: negation of the penalty), you would still see a lot of Prove Thyselfs. If you would keep the Speedboost, but remove the BPs, you will probably remove the Perk from the Loadouts.
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True that. Victor clawing at your back should auto down you in 30s unless you sit down and do some Doctor insanity style skill checks, auto down gets disabled if you are in chase with Charlotte. There, easy fix and it gives Twins some slowdown. Maybe also have an idle Victor slowly drag a downed survivor to the next hook 🪝 before where he will then assume his Killer Instinct watch and survivor's can kick him off a dragged mate.
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My brother in christ it makes it 7 seconds faster. You're acting like gens take 15 seconds with Prove.
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Yes but they need to bless for 14 seconds to get any value out of the perk, meanwhile you could completely forget you have a hex perk and it still carries the game for you. I'd say generally hexes are fine as there is a significant reward when they stay up and winning a match as killer with 3 perks is doable, basically what happens with no way out or noed if you win before all gens are done. I'd say the reason they get the reputation they do is that hexes like ruin don't win matches solo off not being cleansed any more and there aren't any super generic hexes beyond pentimento, which requires more hexes. Blood favour, crowd control, face the darkness, plaything and ruin are all good hexes which can be run by themselves on the right killers but not on everyone, and with pentimento, there is always a reason for any killer to run a hex. I feel like some players need to understand risk rewards better and how to use these perks, just because the perks go early sometimes doesn't mean it needs to solo handily win you the game the rest of the time you do have 3 other perks and 2 addons.
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No, it's much worse for survivors to stack prove. I understand it is basically the same time as splitting but there are two key factors, you can't defend a gen that's already completed and survivors only need to do 5 gens, not 7. Having two gens at 50 means you can kick them, keep survivors away or even use perks to defend them. This allows the killer to create a back-and-forth that can be played around to try and win. If the survivors stack with prove and get one gen to 100 instead you completely remove this option. Additionally, once you get to 1 gen left stacking with prove can complete the last gen super quickly where there wouldn't be many benefits to having multiple gens at 50. Most other speed options are either limited by needing to be "earnt" (weird term in the case of resilience but same idea), having limited use (toolboxes) or being inconsistent (mostly just stakeout). As long as your team cooperates, which maybe you see as a large cost, prove has none of these issues so while isn't unique in getting gens done quickly it's the most reliable throughout a match.
7 seconds isn't massive but it's certainly enough to make a significant difference especially when you consider this is similar to what other gen speed options offer, especially when you can do it multiple times.
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Maybe I missed something, when did Eruption get so strong? I always thought it was just ok. The amount of times I caught survivors with eruption seemed small, it just felt like a guaranteed Jolt/Surge
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Since 6.1.0
25 seconds of being able to do nothing is pretty strong
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It became strong when people started to realise how spammable it's with other perks. Kicking a gen with Call of Brine, Overcharge and Eruption is a great way to defend it but nothing but space between the gens stops them from kicking all the gens like this. Eruption is the most noteworthy of these 3, the potential time it saves is the highest and it's not inconsistent at reaching this potential and people have realised getting hit by a 25-second incapacitated is not fun when the killer doesn't chase you leading you not interacting with the killer or objectives or anything.
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And you are also right but there are maps like swamps or Crottus Prenn where totems are in shithole spots visibile from a kilometer. I had a lot of games where i had no build because all hexes went down in under a minute. Hexes CAN be good but don't have to
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PT is a tough one. Weak early game, but very strong when there's 2/1 gens left. Encouraging more survivors together early instead of splitting up is good, and nerfing it might bring survivors to split up more often
However when things start getting tight, one single PT could be game changer
I think bhvr should focus (again) on addressing healing instead of PT on the survivor side. Medkits are still too strong, and one single smart COH positioning can be game changing
A good killer gets pressure by forcing survivors to waste time and heal, or play injured. The aforementioned just nullify that pressure
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COH and dead hard should be looked at. Prove thyself by itself isn't really problem, just like with gen regression perks, it becomes excessive when combined with toolboxes and other gen speed perks.
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Im all for an eruption nerf. Definitely shorten the incapacitation, remove the scream notification.
Prove is another one that definitely needs a nerf and doesn't get mentioned much for some reason. Most killer mains prefer to moan about DH.
Prove is far too strong for gen rushing. 15 percent speed boost is a lot for repair speed. And having it stack per survivor for each survivor is absolutely nuts. It's asking for coordinated swfs to get stupid high repair speeds. 4 survs on a gen each with 45% increased repair speed? Utter filth.
And it's just as effective at level one as it is at 3. Only the BP bonus changes. Which is a joke. Personally i reckon it should give the user a 15% boost if used when another surv(s) is on a gen and that's it, shouldn't affect the other survs. Or 5% boost for each surv working the gen together. So a team of 4 survs on one gen gets a 20% total boost.
Every super sweaty swf I see as killer popping gens super quick always has a prove or two in the perk builds. And no one really benefits from a short game.
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tbh i miss the corrupt intervention pop meta, was so good... balacned and good IMO.
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For the game's health its likely that the gen speed items+perks need to change.
I think when playing a killer I am not prone to complain about this because it is fairly rare that survivors will bother with it. When they do correctly use the gen speed tools in a SWF, the generator they select is a lost cause, they have near complete control. Its annoying but rare. It does feel functionally uncounterable.
And from the survivor side, planning and communicating to get people on the needed gen, with the right tools, at the right time adds some fun to the game.
So, I'm not apt to complain about either sides tools, as I'm also pleased with Eruption as it currently is.
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I have to say that Eruption, Dead Hard, Adrenaline, Hyberfocus, Off-The Record, and also Pro Thy self all need a nerf. I mean I’ve said this many times also but all of them are equally annoying. Especially the second chance survivor perks cause those survivor second chance and gen perks need a huge nerf.
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Are we STILL complaining about Circle of Healing?
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I personally don't like reworking eruption to block a gen for a set time bc it goes against the idea the idea of a regress perk. If a gen gets blocked by the entity that means the regression gets paused. This means survivors could easily just camp the gen and wait for the block go away then tap it to stop the regression. I saw a suggestion another thread I like a lot more. Instead blocking the gen make a new effect with that gen just can't be worked on/touched for few seconds. I don't I'm just not a fan of gen blocking perks and we have so many of them already. Corrupt intervention, DMS, TT, and deadlock. I have mix feeling on most of these tbh. The only one I do love is corrupt bc I feel I get value out of it every time I run it unlike deadlock where most of time it feels like the perks does absolute nothing. I know this doesn't happen all the time but I still get over the one match I had where a swf was able to compete counter deadlock by 99 the last two gens and popping them at the exact same time, virtually deleting my perk.
Anyway I rather them do something different with eruption than just making it another gen blocking perk. That the end of the day though I'm pretty sure the devs going to take the lazy way out and just nerf the perk to the ground like they did with Thana and Ruin.
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Fun fact: Prove Thyself doesn't actually increase gen speed. It just countermands the innate co-op penalty survivors get when they work together.
That speed they're achieving by all bunching up and giving the killer a #########-ton of extra pressure if he or she catches them? They'd achieve the exact same speed if they all split up and made it impossible for the killer to pressure them all at the same time.
The only reason Prove Thyself is currently considered a strong perk is because of the gen regression meta, where it makes it somewhat more possible to break a killer's hold on a 3-gen.
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If survs can co ordinate well they deserve to win. But prove buffing everyone on the gen by so much is a bit much. Eruption though, just can carry a game almost on it's own. I prefer not to run it usually but if I need to 4k a match or want to force it to last longer to do a killer challenge I bring eruption. It' makes that trial easy af. I don't have call of brine unlocked but I've experienced it from the survivor side a LOT. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen gens finished on those matches
Eruption is bad enough on it's own but the CoB/eruption combo is filthy and any killer running can control the match unless they are awful at chase.
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Fun fact: co op speed nerf is there for a reason because gen speeds would be insane. Sure 4 survs on separate gens get the same repair progress. But tactically it's a different. You get 100% on one gen it pops, then its untouchable, unregressable. 25% on 4 gens is guarenteed not to stay that way.
2 prove thyself on a yeam basically removes a blancing mechanic.
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It could be that there is something fundamentally wrong with the concept of that perk, so that number tweaks will never adequately reign in its power unless they overshoot and nerf it completely.
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Gen speeds changed drastically with patch 6.1.0, which is why the kill rates presumably shot up by 10-15%. And Prove, while common, wasn’t exactly meta before 6.1.0, when kill rates were 10-15% lower. You’re hysterical about a nonissue.
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Fun fact, yesterday Otz discovered on stream that this is bugged and blocking generator doesn't stop its regression
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Yeah I saw that too but I highly believe that is a bug that is going to be fixed sooner or later. So might as well treat it like that and not assume that it's going to be the normal going forward.
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Yes, yes we are. This perk gives every survivor botany knowledge without medkit penalty and also a bit slower than normal self heal. One COH can change very easy game for killer into the missery. Killers that benefits from hit and run tactic (Wraith. Sadako, Dredge, Freddy etc.) are countered by this perk but Nurse and Blight don't care about it, they are simply too strong.
It is broken perk and argument "I don't see it so often anymore, maybe one or two perk game" is not valid, this is 1 perk for 4 survivors
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most of the ppl i know run prove for the BP bonus. if its for gen rushing they run stake out because it's more reliable.
edit: give us the bp for We're Gonna Live Forever back and i run that again.
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I...... guess. I feel like Dead Hard does way more damage.
Yeah, the difference there is that Prove Thyself only helps you get to your Objectives cap faster. It won't let you go over. We're Gonna Live Forever was applied after the fact. Which is why it was so good.
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PT is a glorified bp perk with a speed increase for doing the less efficient play. Let me have my funny bp perk... I don't even escape that often in solo queue but I like when my characters levels go up :(
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It also requires way more set-up than botany, medkits or self-care, and has more counterplay. Overall, from both survivor and killer side, this perk is not that big of a deal.
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PT only saves about 5 seconds if you two man the entire gen, literally only really useful in late game or to break 3 gen, always more effective to split up on gens
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I don't think they deserve to win if they can coordinate. I think they should win if they win. There are a lot of skills people will build to make that happen, com stuff is only one set, it'd be a lesser game if one grouping of skills determined the outcome.
Eruption isn't carrying a game on its own, this is the oddest survivor primary quirk I've seen here, weirder than the obsession with T-bagging while injured in the exit gate, against Wesker.
Teams I play against, routinely work around Eruption and its support perks. They can hold BNP and drop them when I decide to chase, because at some point the majority of killers will commit. They can and have done other stuff. It works, they get to win, gen speed manipulation is one area to exploit to do that. Tile setup and gen placement is another that works often.
From the survivor side, its really simple, the person who wants to run the killer, goes and gets there attention, they go from pallet to pallet, when safe they stay silent. When they are in danger, before they feint in with a DH or desperation 360, they call stop Gen, and I let go of the generator. This is about 2-3 seconds. If they gain ground they call go Gen. These are not deep skills. They took about 10 matches to get down, and most of those were devoted to saying STFU, unless you're calling an event.
There are other perks that work with Prove Thy Self to make generator completion time very quick. Its just one perk amid a set of options. It has its uses, and the time to use it is determined in the match. It might have no use in a given match. Sort of like Eruption. Both seem fine to me.
As I enjoy all of these perks and both sides of the game, I'd rather they didn't change any of these things, but it looks like they will. I feel it would be extra stupid to take down survivor options in a tit-for-tat exchange over Eruption.
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Perks i wanna see nerf
Eruption- Make it block gens for 30 seconds instead of incapacitating or give it some actual counterplay that not just guessing
Adrenaline- Zooming at sonic speed towards the exit gates fully heal is powerful especially with generator progress eventually getting added to the hud. Maybe less speed so u don't auto excape
NOED- I wouldn't be suprise if the perk alone accounted for 3 to 4% of the killrate. If a survivor is hook near the totem it should distinguish back into dull and lite up another random totem on the map.
COH- infinite healing will never be balance. Add restrictions
○Only 1 COH can be up at a time
○Give COH some sort of a cool down (90sec maybe??) So nobody can put the boon right back up after being snuff
Dead hard- limit the amount times a person can use it in one match (maybe 2 to 3 total).
Save The Best For Last- notify the obsession that STBFL is in play
Window Of Opportunity and No Where To Hide- both give insane information. I don't think they need a nerf but whatever i guess.
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