Why so many killers are complaining about WoO (and what the actual issue is)
You may have seen it on Reddit or Youtube. Certain players seem to hold the opinion that WoO is an extremely strong perk and somehow needs a nerf. But Does it really? IMO it's a subpar information perk. You get it's value in chase where this perk helps you find windows and pallets in close range and that can help to improve your pathing. So it gives you information in close range and helps you to be better in chase. But that's about it. The perk itself isn't really that incredible tbh. People seem to forget about the real iisue. The issue that makes this perk look very strong. It's the RNG especially on the newer maps like Borgo or Garden of Joy but also the Red Forest Realm or Eyrie of Crows and many more. The problem is that these maps can have some of the most ridiculous RNG you have ever seen and this perk literally tells the sruvivor exactly that. It can be enhancing since having the knowledge that you are in a safe spot due to a strong RNG is a confidence boost and can make the killer to waste a lot of time. But that's the point. Not the perk is the problem, it's the RNG. So what people should actually demand is not a WoO nerf but a more balanced and consistent RNG.
Comments
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I've actually been running a little experiment on this subject because my initial knee-jerk reaction was that this was an absurd complaint and that the perk is fine
Then I noticed in so many of my games (both roles) I would see Windows super often, I'm talking at least 1-2 people running it per game (excluding myself)
So what I've started doing is on a lot of my Killers, I've begun running Hex: The Third Seal and other blindness related things that can be applied easily and I'm trying to see if the survivors I go against struggle more in chase when my Third seal remains up
I haven't done a huge amount of matches with this yet but I have noticed survivors who I blinded and had the perk did seem more disoriented and made more mistakes.
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It's genuinely a very useful perk that helps Solos more than SWF, which makes me think its well-designed.
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Maps and RNG are the issue which Windows highlights, yes. However, the people who act like the perk’s not that good or only used by newbies are just wrong. Knowing exactly where pallets and windows are is some insanely strong information, allowing the survivor to know exactly where to take chase to or whether they should hold w or stick to their current loop, which can make a huge difference in going down instantly oe not. It’s strengths are especially apparent on indoor maps where pallets are easy to miss or know if they’re used up. That being said though, I don’t think the perk needs a nerf.
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For solo, WoO is like a Fogwise without having to be on a gen. I can see a pallet be thrown and get and general idea of where the killer is doing a chase at. Before the HUD improvement it was also useful for determining if someone is in chase or I have to pay attention to a stealth killer.
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I've never seen anyone complain about WoO and it seems like such a weird thing to complain about. It lets you plan ahead which is strong but it's not OP or anything by a long shot.
That being said play a game using WoO, Bond, visionary and open handed with a key with blood amber at least once. You become a living map that sees everything and it's kinda hilarious.
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I think the perk is fine, it more just illustrates the real issue which is map design.
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It highlights map issues more than anything else. And I typically run it because I literally can't see the pallets on Borgo. It's an accessibility issue that they had plenty of feedback about (why are they re-skinning pallets in 2023????) and did nothing with.
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At one point I realized I was using Windows a lot and that I was struggling in chase more whenever I wasn't using it.
Which is exactly why I completely stopped using it and forced myself to play the game without it. It took a little while to improve, but since then I feel like I've become a better survivor without it and I never use it anymore.
With that in mind, I'd be interested to see what the results of your experiment are especially once you've done more matches with it.
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Perk is overpowered. Every time I have to abandon chase because the survivor is abusing a disgusting setup, they always have Windows. It never fails. The perk turns even the most mediocre players into serviceable loopers and stops them from ever running to a dead zone.
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Everything that is helpful to either side AND used a lot will be complained about, no matter it's actual strength.
Thoughts on WoO itself, it's a useful crutch (not meant to be negative, more literally), that immensely helps with map ring and makes knowing every map layout in and out unnecessary.
But i would call it a double edged sword just like Shadowborn and stridor were/are for killers. People get to used to the "comfort"/advantage the perk gives, meanwhile their senses get used to this false norm and when they don't have said perk or it gets blocked they are suddenly way worse than before using those perks excessively.
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it is largely crutch perk because a lot of survivor are not that good at looping use it. I think scottjund once said something interesting about lucky break. The scariest perks on survivor are the perks that make weak links into medium links. Window of opportunity makes weak links of the team become strong links.
I have same experience as you with this perk. I used to use it in early days to learn the maps, but after I learned the maps. I decided to take it off for like 50 games and eventually I did not need perk anymore. I could visualized every map and every loop in my head without needing the perk.
you can definitely learn to play the game without windows but window is nice for seeing your teammate in chase when they drop pallets and it helps with not going into deadzones when pallet are broken via your teammate droping them. so I still understand people position in using the perk.
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This. Some teammates drop pallets like it’s a $10 comp tournament and I’d like to have at least a hint that I’m running towards a man-made dead zone later in the game.
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theyre complaining because killers always need something to cry about
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Honestly is one of the most fair and well designed perks in the game. Yes gives a lot of information, but its all in the player's ability to use it, but if you are already familiar with the maps RNG and are in the SWF where they call out dropped pallets it becomes less usefull.
I don't understand the hate some killers have for it. Would you prefer a 4 man SWF that knows the map RNG and now have 4 extra perk slots for Adren, prove, COH, OTR and other perks that actually have direct impact?
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It needs a range nerf
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Windows isn’t overpowered map RNG just sucks.
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Well, the same people complaining about WoO complained about Selfcare, so… C’est la vie.
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They are crying because they think using windows makes survivors good loopers or smth when in reality it's them not playing better
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Windows isn't overpowered but if 'shaking up the meta' is something BHVR wanna do then it -will- need nerfs simply because it's so popular. Same with Self-Care, it was far from a strong perk at 50% but they nerfed it anyhow because it was popular.
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But the difference isn't between 4-man SWF and WoO, it's between solos with WoO and solos without WoO. And SWF who're not communicating every last dropped pallet in the map.
Mostly, it just exposes the blatantly absurd map RNG that exists, and how even midway through the match, so many maps can still have enough resources that they can be endlessly chained together without issue. And since a lot of Killers have way less influence over where the chase is headed, if the Survivor can tell exactly where to go...
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Still, the perk is not a problem. And the last point is only true on some killers, some killers have zoning powers or can lead survivors into less favorable routes and loops with just regular pathing. (yes it depends on the map, not always)
But killers also need to stop saying that they don't have agency in a chase, i have seen killers even use zanshin to improve that playstyle.
In the end, the perk is good and well designed and shouldn't be nerfed, people just need to get better and bhvr needs to fix map imbalance, which they have been doing (with mixed results but largely for the better, i think).
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Nobody is complaining about zenshin impact tho. It’s good for newer players and those who dont have pallet spawns memorized. It’s also nice to know whether a pallet is down. I dont rlly think it’s fair to nerf something that helps newer players just bc it’s overused. I dont think it would be fair to nerf killer aura perks either.
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Killers don't need to know where Pallets and Windows are, they aren't Killer resources
The only thing Killers really need to know is Survivor locations, which there are plenty of perks and some powers that give them that
I'm not sure where I stand on the WoO discussion right now, but I don't think comparing it to Zanshin is fair because that information is way more valuable to Survivors then it is for Killers
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WoO and Zanshin aren't really comparable because even though they both reveal the exact same auras as each other, the information is usually a lot more useful for survivors. A killer already knows which pallets and walls they've broken because they're the ones breaking them. A survivor doesn't necessarily know if a teammate has already used a certain pallet or where the killer has already broken walls down if they didn't see them do it or haven't ran past that area before.
Imagine if there was a killer perk that revealed survivors' auras within 36 meters. That's exactly what Bond does for survivors and Bond is a useful perk to help find your teammates. But if that existed as a killer perk that worked exactly the same way and with no other restrictions, it'd be absolutely busted.
The strength of an effect (in this case, from a perk) can change a lot depending on which side is getting the effect. And just to be clear, this isn't to say that WoO is necessarily overpowered, either, just that it's a much stronger perk than Zanshin Tactics.
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