I have no boon perks so could you explain this please?
Someone on my team lit a boon and it had 4 or more effects. This a cheater?
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If anyone of your teammates has all boons and sets one up, then all survivors survivors in that area get the effects. Did your teammates have any boons?
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no. if a player used boon perks they can have up to 4 boons on the same totem. all boons are applied to the same totem.
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Thanks for letting me know. Thats crazy really.
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I didn't check but other guy said it's normal. I can't believe it really they must hate killers these devs. I play both sides.
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It's not all boons that are problematic. It's just CoH. All the others have some kind of counterplay other than snuffing the boon and since the killer can't always take the time to do so, that is exactly how it should be.
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In my opinion, they should nerf boons so that the totem is destroyed when the killer snuffs it. Make it just as useful or useless as killer hexes.
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Boons are analogous to scourge hooks in that regard. No matter what you can only boon one totem and no matter what you only get four scourge hooks(ignoring monstrous shrine and basement). All equipped boons will be on the one booned totem and all equipped scourge perks will be on those hooks only.
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The only boons that scare me are CoH and occasionally Shadowstep.
That said - a full boon build has glaring weaknesses, especially in that if you find the boon and stuff it, they have basically no perks.
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I play both sides too and I don't think it's unbalanced. That player has to use up evwey single perk slot to boon like that. So they don't get any other perks at all.
Sounds like a bit of a meme build to me
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Killers hexes go up without a killer having to touch a totem (excluding pentimento) while survivors have to find a totem and waste 1/4 to 2/4 of a generators time to boon a totem giving the killer more time.
Killers can snuff a totem in 1-2 seconds and put up pentimento in the same amount of time killers also have a perk to break a snuffed totem which still only takes 1-2 seconds of time for them to do so
Survivors boon totems are also loud enough to hear so you can find them easier
Killer hex totems barely make any noise making it more challenging to find
You can also remove the boon by tunneling out the survivor early like most killers who get annoyed by said perks do
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yeah, but you gotta admit that boons are more powerful than hex totems. for starters - killers can't really waste time on cleansing like survivors can. and hex totems can be completely destroyed without the need for a perk. like - if i spawn as a survivor next to a hex totem then that killer perk is wiped from the game completely with zero counterplay. but a survivor can constantly boon until dead. and there are 4 survivors meaning a possibility that 4/5 totems are going to be booned - until a survivor dies. meaning even if i chase and kill 1 survivor it will still take the whole match to rid the arena of boons. but if 4 survivors spawn near 4 different hexes then all my hexes except maybe the closest one will be gone in 30 seconds.
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Coh is honestly the only strong one that people complain about
Shadow step is good but not strong just makes scratch marks and aura reading disappear but blood still visible and heavy breathing can still be heard
Unbreakable boon (forgot name) only works once (killer will pick up to prevent another) and only if the killer is slugging
Speed boost boon is good but 2% haste is all it does and for very limited range
But I do agreed I think hex totems need better hiding spots and to be a little bit stronger
Edited: changed my mistake on the boon for haste
Post edited by Jeromy137 on0 -
That's what the perk Shattered Hope does.
Of course, it's a weak perk that's a total waste of a slot if the survivors don't bring any boons.
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dark theory is only a 2% speed boost, its kind of worthless
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Would be crazy if more than 1 of them was any good...
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There are only 4 boon perks in the game. What probably happened is they had multiple boons, and also someone else had an area-of-effect perk like Prove Thyself, Leader, Vigil, Streetwise, or something else similar.
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Ah yeah 2% that is worthless sorry I was thinking of hopes haste boost I stopped using most boons a long time ago once in a blue moon will I equip coh so I didn't have them memorized yet
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That would completely invalidate all boons, and half are already considered garbage tier, one is considered underwhelming, with only one being above bad.
You're not accounting for their effects. Ruin puts out extra pressure on survivors by undoing their progress. Devour Hope allows you to instadown and skip hookstates.
There's a 30% repair speed slowdown, there's persistent obliviousness, there's persistent exposed, there's pallet and window-blocking...
Survivors have four boons, one of which is extremely unlikely to ever grant value because it's hard-countered by killer pressing spacebar. One is a 2% haste in a limited area, which is negligible. One is scratch mark removal, which can be valuable, but also immediately loses most of its value if the survivor is injured. And one is Botany + Self-care.
None of these boons even come close to something like Devour Hope, Pentimento, Plaything or NOED.
And then there's the fact that hexes are set-up automatically, straight from the start, while boons require a pretty hefty time investment to set up, which the boons then have to earn back in order to get value out. And if they get snuffed before they earn themselves back, the killer gains some time.
Hexes are also global, while Boons are range restricted. This localisation can also adversely impact boons. Dark Theory set up in a dead zone where all the pallets are gone is going to be of no use whatsoever. No Hex has this kind of problem.
Also, the two share resources, but killer takes priority. If the killer brings a bunch of hex perks, that's going to hinder boons, not the other way around.
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Theoretically...
I'm kind of thinking of Shadow Step, Circle of Healing, Bite the Bullet.
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all of the boons except for circle of healing are mediocre and map / boon placement dependent, though
-one gives no scratch marks in an AOE, which only really works if there are a bunch of LOS blockers such as an indoor map. it's basically just Lightweight but more situational, and Lightweight is hardly considered strong
-one gives a bonus 2% speed boost, which means the boon needs to be in a loop (so if you're using it for that, other people can't heal with it). It's basically a strictly worse Hope.
-one gives a bonus to self-pickup, which means it's basically useless if the killer doesn't slug. It's a reusable, but more situational Unbreakable.
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no. i'm clearly accounting for effects. boon totems are stronger. just the simple fact that a killer has to run a specific perk to disable a boon permanently makes boon totems stronger since it's a blind guess.
devour hope does nothing except waste a perk slot if it gets cleansed in the first 10 seconds of a round. and likewise does nothing after getting cleansed at any point in the round. it takes 30 seconds to land a single melee strike minimum in any situation other than having an afk. it takes 2 strikes to down. and you still have to hook a player, walk a distance and wait for another player to unhook the survivor for a SINGLE token. survivor hook state 1 is 60 seconds. that's 3 minutes on average to get any benefit from devour. it's roughly 10 seconds to set a boon totem. and if all 4 players are running circle of healing as they typically do then that's 10 seconds for full map coverage at any point in the game.
killers can't destroy dull totems. and without a perk killers can't destroy boon totems. the agency is given to survivors when it comes to totems. so you're completely wrong about that part. hex totems initiate the match, but boons override hexes. if a killer brings 5 hex perks - then that killer cannot bring shattered hope to destroy boons. and is giving up any other perk options for totem control. in this situation there's zero guarantee that a survivor even brings a boon totem perk to begin with. which means a killer has to blind guess a strategy completely on the fact that it's such a threatening perk. that's a clear indication of something not being balanced.
on top of that if one were to bring the entity blocker perk for hexes im pretty sure then that the killer has to sacrifice haunted grounds as a double hex. meaning the killer only gets 2 hex perks guaranteed. i haven't tested this yet, but if this is the case then that's the best case scenario and it essentially makes 2 totems useless.
with 5 dull totems spawning every match - covering the entire arena in boons that grant flat stat buffs is entirely possible. 7% haste is .28 i'm pretty sure - which you get from the egc perk hope. that's enough to outrun a bloodlust nurse. 2% on top of that is enough to outrun hag.
finding the totem is easy, but with 4 survivors running boons it's an exercise in futility without the perk to destroy boons.
even with my best educated guessing about some specific interactions it should be obviois that boon totems are stronger. how you could even attempt to argue otherwise is silly. it's not even an opinion at that point. it's just plain falsification. but you're welcome to your false opinion. 🤷🏻♂️
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embrace the boons brudda
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blood only matters if you're injured. combining circle of healing and shadow step is how you create safe zones and this essentially negates the blood or heavy breathing. you're more likely to catch a survivor repairing a gen or grunting from a fall/totem blessing than to track the blood to their healing corner. not to mention the loud aura noise that is emitted from a boon totem blocking sound. don't even get me started if they bring bite the bullet.
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no. i'm clearly accounting for effects. boon totems are stronger. just the simple fact that a killer has to run a specific perk to disable a boon permanently makes boon totems stronger since it's a blind guess.
No, it doesn't make them stronger, and here's why:
devour hope does nothing except waste a perk slot if it gets cleansed in the first 10 seconds of a round.
Under worst case scenario, Devour Hope is going to occupy one survivor for 14 seconds and then becomes a blank perk slot. Which means it gave some slowdown as a benefit to the killer.
Under worst case scenario, any boon in the game will occupy a survivor for 14 seconds and then provides no benefit. Which means it gave some slowdown as a benefit to the killer.
The absolute worst performance you can get out of a boon is NOT zero. It's negative. The fact that these perks don't go out permanently does not make them stronger. It -can- allow them to recuperate some value later, but it can also allow them to double up on the time they've already wasted for the survivors.
it takes 30 seconds to land a single melee strike minimum in any situation other than having an afk. it takes 2 strikes to down. and you still have to hook a player, walk a distance and wait for another player to unhook the survivor for a SINGLE token. survivor hook state 1 is 60 seconds.
30 seconds minimum, except against AFKs. Or against obliviousness. Or if you have no TR. Or if you use powers. And then you're assuming survivors wait exactly 59 seconds before the unhook. Also not taking into account variable chase times because not every chase from first hit to second is going to take another 90 seconds.
it's roughly 10 seconds to set a boon totem.
That's VERY roughly, because you're off by 40%, buddy. Have you not used a boon perk before?
and if all 4 players are running circle of healing as they typically do then that's 10 seconds for full map coverage at any point in the game.
A: If all 4 are running CoH then joke's on them because they don't stack, so three folks brought useless perks and are wasting time.
B: How are four people all going to be at a totem at the same time without any of them getting caught and interrupted by the killer? Also, at -any- point? What killer struggles so badly with finding survivors that, after getting a couple of hooks and a few gens are gone, they still can't get into a chase?
so you're completely wrong about that part. hex totems initiate the match, but boons override hexes.
That's a misrepresentation too. Yes, a survivor can boon a hex totem, but to do so costs them almost half a minute, all of which is lost if they are interrupted at any point during the process, at which point they lose both the time spent on the totem and the opportunity to clear the hex. It's very high risk to try and boon a hex.
if a killer brings 5 hex perks - then that killer cannot bring shattered hope to destroy boons.
There's a hex in the game that can hex four separate totems, so you'd really only need two slots to cover all totems in hexes.
and is giving up any other perk options for totem control.
One of the hexes IS totem control.
in this situation there's zero guarantee that a survivor even brings a boon totem perk to begin with. which means a killer has to blind guess a strategy completely on the fact that it's such a threatening perk. that's a clear indication of something not being balanced.
This is the standard for DBD balancing. Before 6.1., 3/4 of the survivor meta was comprised of perks that do nothing unless the killer plays a specific way. This game has always worked like this.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for giving Shattered hope a little bit of extra oomph in its kit for when it's being used against the boonless, but having a perk that's useless unless the opposing side plays a certain way is nothing new.
on top of that if one were to bring the entity blocker perk for hexes
Is there one? I think it's only Pentimento that does that.
7% haste is .28 i'm pretty sure - which you get from the egc perk hope.
Hope is not a boon.
that's enough to outrun a bloodlust nurse.
NOT THE BLOODLUST NURSE! ANYTHING BUT THAT!
2% on top of that is enough to outrun hag.
IIRC, Hastes don't stack.
Also, again, Hope is not a boon.
Also also, 7%+2% = 9%. Hag is 110%.
finding the totem is easy, but with 4 survivors running boons it's an exercise in futility without the perk to destroy boons.
No it isn't. People need to remember that the worst a boon can perform is NOT 0. It is a negative value. Survivors are not doing gens if they're busy booning. If they prop up a CoH and you snuff it before they can heal at it, that perk has slowed the survivors down.
even with my best educated guessing about some specific interactions it should be obviois that boon totems are stronger.
Except it's not educated guessing, it's just wild assumptions. You didn't even know how long it takes to bless a totem. That is the opposite of an educated guess, since the actual bless time is on the wiki and not that hard to find, so you did not educate yourself at all!
but you're welcome to your false opinion.
Strangely, this 'False opinion' is shared by the majority of the community it seems, since Pentimento, Undying, Ruin, Devour Hope, Plaything and NOED are all more popular than the second most popular boon.
If only circle of healing is so widely used, is it really a boon thing, or is it perhaps a circle of healing thing?
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nothing a survivor does in a trial is a net loss unless actively trying to die or afk. most of your rebuttals were semantics based.
cleansing or booning a totem is an effort to survive.
boons don't stack, but survivors can only boon a singular totem at a time. meaning their aoe is fixed. 4 survivors with circle of healing can't all boon the same totem, but 4 survivors with circle of healing can boon 4 totems and enhance the aoe's distance.
the choice to use or not use boon perks is more of a financial decision than it is a power budget issue. all of the boon perks require purchases. or would you honestly argue that sabotage and bond are high tier perks?
i earned adept mikayla literally minutes after purchasing her.
boon totems themselves are a fun mechanic, but there has to be more counterplay.
it's a logical fallacy to say that something should be because it has always been. i think it's called appeal to tradition.
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nothing a survivor does in a trial is a net loss unless actively trying to die or afk.
No, that is definitely not true. Everything a survivor does is either optimal, or subtracting from it. There are LOADS of things survivors can do that they don't need to do that detract from their chance to survive.
14 seconds spent booning a totem aren't guaranteed to increase your chances of survival. 14 seconds on a gen, are.
cleansing or booning a totem is an effort to survive.
Lemme spend 1.5 minutes running around the map trying to cleanse 5 dulls, see what that does to my winrate.
boons don't stack, but survivors can only boon a singular totem at a time. meaning their aoe is fixed. 4 survivors with circle of healing can't all boon the same totem, but 4 survivors with circle of healing can boon 4 totems and enhance the aoe's distance.
And the benefit from that falls off -really- hard. Sure, you can have four boons up all at the same time, but only one will be used to heal. Which means that what could've been accomplished with 14 seconds worth of work and one perk slot now takes 4 perk slots and 56 seconds.
What a deal!
the choice to use or not use boon perks is more of a financial decision than it is a power budget issue. all of the boon perks require purchases. or would you honestly argue that sabotage and bond are high tier perks?
Why on earth are you bringing finances in this? And what do sabotage and bond have to do with boons?
(Also, no joke, Bond is actually a pretty strong perk for solo players)
i earned adept mikayla literally minutes after purchasing her.
And that is obviously and exclusively due to her boons, and the performances of the killer and three other survivors had -nothing- to do with that.
boon totems themselves are a fun mechanic, but there has to be more counterplay.
That'll require gargantuan buffs to Shadow Step, Exponential and Dark Theory, because Shadow Step is underperforming and the other two are at the bottom of the trash bin.
it's a logical fallacy to say that something should be because it has always been. i think it's called appeal to tradition.
Okay, but then you have to break down the entire system and not just hand-pick the one thing that frustrates you.
And you'd still need proportionality, because as mentioned, most boons are actually really really really, REALLY bad. So why install a gargantuan mega-nerf that'll knock the only good boon from 'solid pick' to 'No Mither-tier', while the rest is already on the bottom?
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If im being honest shadowstep most definitely doesn't need a buff, it's already super oppressive on indoors maps against most killers and aura reading killers absolutely despise it. That's for a reason, because it's very strong, just the placement is what really decides whether this perk is used or not. When you get a perfect totem spot, it can really really mess up killers. So no shadowstep definitely doesn't need a buff.
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Oh, I agree. Shadowstep is, in my opinion, in a pretty decent spot, mostly because it can become way more powerful on indoor maps, as you mentioned. It's more situational as a result.
But if killers get basekit shattered hope, Shadowstep is going right down to 0% usage rate, I can promise you that.
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I just don't think shattered hope is ever going to become basekit, they are more likely to nerf the COH than add shattered hope. Though they definitely need to change dark theory because they clearly won't make the movement increase busted leaving it as the weakest boon perk at least boon unbreakable has some niche uses while boon dark theory is just bad all around.
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One thing I suggested when the second CoH nerf rolled around is fiddling with boon parameters. The fact that CoH does what it does, and Dark Theory does what it does is a pretty big imbalance, but it's kinda ridiculous that Dark Theory has the same radius as CoH and takes just as long to set up.
Boons should have individual parameters (Radius, boon time, maybe a cooldown on snuff) and picking up multiple boons will pick the worst parameters from all of them.
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Boons are killer perks, in my opinion
Ive seen multiple times when there is 1 gen left and people are placing boons, and of course we all die at the end
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Indeed, Shadowstep can be pretty strong.
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its fair to say that some boons are better than others. and sure maybe basekit shattered hope isn't the right answer, but then again maybe it is. maybe hex totems and boon totems need a rework so that they can coexist in a more harmonious way - i'm all for that. however, it is definitely not and never has been a great experience using hex totems as a killer due to the chance of instantly losing the perk. Hag adept is one of the most stressful to earn achievements simply because of the conditions that require her to succeed. three hex perks and you can't execute survivors.
what i can and will admit is that it's not as simple as adjusting numbers. nothing with as much player to player interaction as this game has is ever soley about numbers. this game has too many situational domino components. i'm hoping we can both at least agree on that.
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