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toxicity in the dbd community
why is this such a rampant problem in this community? im mainly talking about survivors, but survivors mention that killers are also toxic at times. do most of you just like being that way or are you just competing to see how much fun you can suck out of playing dbd for others?
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Because they are 4 at once and affirm each other, against the one . This is the natural way humans function as predators. In vs out group. Its like the first pages of the sociology text book(or it was way back when).
Watch smaller twitch streamers, you can do it while you play against them, just let them win if it bothers you that they might think you are cheating for watching.
One person says a thing either in chat or in voice and on it goes, it takes a mountain of evidence to stop it at that point from being perceived as fact. As an example, I was watching a stream against the player sitting next to me. The twitch player was mostly not focused on the game and would flee the gens much too late, even after he was well aware he was facing Wesker. His assistant who was monitoring the game flow called CoB/Eruption. It took until the end screen for them to acknowledge that there was no CoB or Eruption. Only scourge hook.
I did not want to make mention of the toxic interactions that form along the same lines, because although I think we should point them out as a thing that is part of the community, I do no think we should showcase them.
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It's a problem in every online multiplayer game. DBD just manages it poorly. I know of a few games that will penalize toxicity with chat restrictions and even bans. DBD on the other hand? Ehh, it's not like it's allowed but no one really cares.
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I imagine a very large part of it is just how frustrating this game can be and too many players take that frustration out on their opponents rather than do the healthy thing like remember it's just a game or take a break for a bit or start a underground Fight Club.
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DbD has just as much toxicity as any other game. The reason why Survivors seem much more toxic than killers is because you encounter more Survivors than you do Killers.
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Many players are having fun explicitly by ruining others fun. That's what drives them to toxic behaviour. Also survivors typically want chases and therefore provoke you into commiting to them. Your performance in this game is also driven by how calm and focused you are. If you are being massively BMed by a survivor in a chase that might get to you which leads to you getting nervous, mad and losing concentration. If you panic you will nake more mistakes and that's sometimes the reason they do it. The players in this games often have a massive ego as well so if they lose they have to ruin your feeling thaat you accomplished something by t-bagging at hatch and insulting you in the post game chat. They don't want you to be happy since they lost so now they need to ruin your fun. Yes some players are this petty.
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Eh, I’ve always found the toxicity of this community overstated, I’ve only ever experienced truly horrible stuff maybe twice( things like misogyny, racism, homophobia). This kind of behaviour sounds rampant in other gaming communities, my friend plays Valorant and it often sounds like a nightmare. I will say DBD might have the whiniest community though.
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I've been apart of a lot of gaming communities since 2014.
DBD is by far the most toxic, perhaps only being challenged by old CoD.
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Apparently FIFA is worse. Guy at work reckons the abuse is constant and pretty disgusting.
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Have you played league of legends, there were times where it was quite entertaining in chat. Thank God for individual instant mute.
Btw OPs Name checks out 😑
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This is one of the big problems of the game: usually i won't care if i win or lose, especially in a game like dbd, but when i found brats that think to leave the match without any problem after being pricks (both in game and in the endchat) i'll do everything in my power to make the match more unfun as possible (if you don't care about my game experience why should i be worried of yours?). In those cases they should pray that i'm not using bubba in that moment...
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Anyone who says dbd is "just like any other gaming community" I think really need a wake up call. I have played every "toxic" game under the sun (League, overwatch, CoD, CSGO, Etc.) and i have never seen a community or at least a portion of the community willing to celebrate changes that are inherently bad for the game as long as it affects the other side. People were openly celebrating not even a month ago at the POSSIBILITY that Bubba wasn't going to be purchasable. DBD really attracts the worst types of people.
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What do you expect when the Developers encourage BM?
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"im mainly talking about survivors'" tell me youre a killer main without telling me you are a killer main. Of course """"survivors"""" are more toxic because there are 4!!!!! that means the chance you get a toxic person is A LOT more likely. the thing is that toxic survivors dont ruin games only sandbagging survivors do, meanwhile the killers actually has the biggest impact with toxicity, facecamping and tunneling and slugging. it is much worse than simply teabagging, getting mad about teabagging just shows your fragile ego.
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Ive also been part of the gaming community since stick hoop took the world by storm (early 2000's) and i have to agree with Pulsar. I haven't seen toxicity from a gaming community of this magnitude since CoDMW, and even that felt different tbh. With DBD its so common, petty, predictable and uncalled for. Ive never been told to end myself so many times after LOSING a game before, its even worse when i win.
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Tunneling, Camping and Slugging are not toxic. They may not be fun for the receiving end, but that doesn't make it toxic. Face-Camping and being repeatedly hit on hook can be considered toxic. Being bled out to death when the killer can hook everyone is toxic.
You not liking something is not toxic. If that was the case, then killers can call running to strong loops toxic. Sabotaging hooks, repairing a gen in the killers face, body blocking for their teammates, bringing in BNP and strong tool boxes, flashlight blinding, map offering to survivor sided maps, rushing gens, camping or using strong pallets, or looping the shack can all be considered toxic according to your definition of the word since they're not fun for the killer.
You have a fragile ego if you think getting camped or tunneled or slugged is toxic when they're actually legitimate ways for the killer to apply pressure and kill survivors.
In my 5k+ hours in the game, never have I faced a killer that legitimately made me want to stop playing while I have met plenty of Survivors that put me off the game and just not play it for a few days. Never have I had a killer wish me and my family death and suffering while it was common to see it from survivors.
Even though Survivors are more, it's obvious they're the more immature, entitled whiny side.
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Face camping, tunnelling, and slugging are legitimate strategies - a way of playing a game you paid for in order to win said game isn't considered toxic in most communities but i guess that's what makes the dbd consumer base so unique. Admittedly slugging can be situationally toxic af if the killer is just doing it to waste everyone's time/ruin the game. Also nobody mentioned teabagging, not sure where you pulled that trigger from, but i agree, people shouldn't be mad over animations like tbagging or hook slapping. The post game chat and community pages where people from both sides mald over some tired af "us v them" bs is usually home to the most toxicity and it really could be done away with, the community would be better for it
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I think the Bubba thing might have been because of the way most players used to play him; by face-camping. And it isn't really always on the players, but on the game itself, and how the devs never did anything about Bubba being so strong as a face-camper. The funny thing is that Billy can do that just as well, but somehow Billy mains refrained from becoming blatant face-campers throughout the years.
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Yes, and current COD MW 2 is just as awful. Since most players have microphones, every single match ends with all players simultaneously shouting every slur, threat, and racist language known to humankind. I think the DBD community is more intelligent in their toxicity, lol - the "Illuminati Toxicity"
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Basically? Because BHVR wills it so.
They seem to be stuck in the early 2010's with the mindset of there being something worth retaining about the nastier sides of gaming/the internet. It's very odd, as - on the other hand - they spend a lot of energy trying to maintain an image as a hard-progressive company.
Nobody wants DbD to be Club Penguin. But I also personally don't want it to be CS:GO.
Eh...
I've been playing online since Quake 2.
About the only games more/as consistently toxic as DbD is would be pre-Tribunal League of Legends, CS:GO, some of the early MMOs, Smite, EVE Online, early XBL, the original DOTA map and a few others.
This is not company you want to be in.
Yes, there's always a bigger horse - but that's neither here nor there. It's mildly annoying how people always insist on turning this into a toxicity Olympics.
The old XBL is probably one of the most uniquely horrible communities of all time, but...yeah, see above.
I'll take 'Things That Aren't Toxicity' for 400, Alex.
These are cheese. Much like a 6pool or spawn camper.
Starcraft 2.
But again, there's always a bigger horse.
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I find it kinda ironic that a discussion on toxicity and why it's bad was started by someone with the username "survivorsareaplague"
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yes because all killers in dbd are saints. the game is toxic because there are things in the game that shouldnt be in the game
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I mean when you have streamers glorifying it for content what can you do. Now everyone wants to be like these streamers for easy views.
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Do you think bullies takes on the alone role or surround themselves with others? Perhaps the absolute psychos play killer more but they are fewer than the bullies. Survivors have many more toxic players just keep an eye on them end game chats on PC and see how many of them react bad to losing compared to killer players.
I'm survivor main myself but you must be blind if you don't see what role toxic players prefer.
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you seem to be leaving out the fact that killers have the roll where they play toxic looking for the negative response intentionally, and act surprised when they get it. Of course the side that generally gets tunneled out and camped is more likely to be more pissy at the end of a match. i watch certain killer streams where the goal is to catch "SALT", then go and make youtube videos where they are shocked at the other person's behaviour. Tit for tat if you ask me. But thats apparently what stream viewers and youtube channels are looking for.
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I think you've been playing online since before I was born.
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Likely, yeah. I'm middle aged XD. My first gaming console was a bootleg NES.
That's absolutely not true.
Survivors can basically take the game hostage and never be banned for it.
I'd rather be bled out or camped any day of the week than have 3 people hiding in lockers, never getting AFK crows and stalling the match out for an extra 45 minutes because they feel like being butts.
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Sounds like my dad. Except he was a fan of Wolfenstein, Elder Scrolls and Halo when it came out way later
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I think there are quite a few reasons that build to the toxicity that sometimes comes out.
1: As an asymmetric game, any change feels like an attack on one side of the community. You'll see lots of talk about changes that will either destroy the game or save it. Now, arguments about balance are common for all games, the difference for DbD is that it only applies to one side. In a 5v5 game if a character/tactic is overpowered both sides have access to it. In DbD if something is broken it can only be accessed by one side.
2: Lack of clear objectives. If you are playing a capture the flag style game the goal is clear - how you accomplish it can be debated, but there is agreement about what is trying to be accomplished. In DbD? The devs are cool with playing for BP, or trying to tunnel out survivors, or bullying the killer, or playing for hooks, or playing for hatch, etc. The 'play as you want' style inherently leads to a sense that others are playing the game wrong.
3: Add-ons and offerings. These feel like built in cheats. Survivors can run a gen rush build against a base kit killer. Killers can push to a map that advantages them against a group of survivors bringing zero items. If survivors/killers match up on what they bring, great, but otherwise it feels like one side got access to a difficulty slider.
4: Different communities. This adds to the above points. The strategies that are common/playstyles seem to differ based on various regions leading to more arguments about how the game should be balanced/adjusted because we're all having really different experiences.
5: Self policing. If you feel like your opponents violated any of the above, the game has mechanics to ruin the other side. Survivors can hide in dead zones and really draw the game out, the killer can leave survivors to bleed out, etc. In other games if one side refuses to play/concedes, the game ends pretty quickly, DbD you can make the other side suffer for their playstyle.
6: On a positive note, DbD is meant to elicit strong emotions. I care far more about escaping as a survivor than I do winning a game of Paladins. Killer mains talk about the intense feeling of being outnumbered and pressured by time. It shouldn't be surprising that because DbD is so good at making people feel invested in the game their reactions are even stronger. The higher the highs, the lower the lows.
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Being other people are mentioning their experience level, first game I really played online was Starcraft in 1996. Toxicity is an element of every online game, though I think it is particularly bad in DbD. The thing that shocks me the most is that when reading other people's thoughts is frequently it feels like they are playing a totally different video game than I am.
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They really dont tho, again it may seem like it simply because you on average come across (as a solo player) 3 or 4 Survivors per 1 killer. If you play 10 games theres obviously a much bigger chance that Survivors will say something in endgame chat
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The only toxicity in DbD you face is some one bming in game and maybe throwing in an "ez ur bad"
From my roughly 10 hours of experience in LoL and over 500 in CSGO, Ive been told to off myself and so many more vile things than my over 5k hours in DbD.
DbD really aint that bad. But I dont really count generic ingame BM as toxic.
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LMAO. Next time mix some actual you know facts in with your gas lighting chief.
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I think I've run into that here. I feel like the main limiting factor is just how many people are playing on things that don't allow cross-communication, and the scale of games.
When you go through four people in ten minutes and 2/3 of them can't communicate with you rather than a lobby of like 20 people that won't shut up, the amount of terrible behaviour is going to be lower, but the incidence of it still seems absurdly disproportionate. Especially the ones that are just there to be pricks.
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I don't remember when Riot changed it but they definitely got a lot more strict about it. It definitely was the right choice for them as it cleared their community considerably from one of the most hateful communities to one that I would describe as "All in all pretty nice." (Not sure how it is today though, as I stopped playing LoL several years ago.)
DBD has a problem with players getting rather emotional. Wether it is tunneling, camping, gen rushing, flashlight saves, pallet stuns or anything else that is in the interest of progressing the game often comes across as spiteful or personal when it was only an act to try and win the game. Put that together with certain movements that some survivors perform in the exit gates and the killer hitting them on hook and you see why people often get salty.
The first problem is that BHVR don't actively show us how they handle these things. If they were more open and more strict about it, players would think twice before telling a random person on the internet they wish them and their families the most unspeakable things. The second problem is that there really is no reason to play nice. You don't tunnel and use nice perks and as a "thank you" the survivors will perform their finest dances and explain how bad you as a player and a person are, vice versa.
Both these problems have potential solutions that are already implemented in other games but until we see some drastic measures DBD's toxicity will remain as it is.
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Teabagging just shows your lack of maturity and lack of respect for other people. There, I fixed your statement for you.
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this doesnt happen often. thats the exception. not the rule. what i said earlier plays a huge reason as to why survivors typically are more toxic at the end of the match. and like i said and ill repeat it again, there is a large part of the community that has a goal of making the other side mad. its just the reality of the game in a nutshell
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I mean even before crossplay it still wasn't that bad
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My thoughts exactly.
I play both sides, playstyles arent toxic imho, can they annoy the other side sometimes? Absolutely, but real toxicity is when people cant leave it in the game and goes beyond ingame trash talk.
I guess its easier to let out your frustration from real life on an unknown person over the internet....nothing new there...people that feel the need to threaten and harress others irl over a stupid videogame have problems irl that arent really related to the game at all imho.
The game is just an easy trigger and excuse...
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I wouldn't say that, not at all.
I was pointing out how humans use group associations to bully people. They do, do this. Its why they were successful pack predators.
I didn't point out the psychological stress of the lone male(which I'm going to stereotype most killers as), because I didn't really pay attention during those parts of psychology. And also near everyone understands how dangerous one of those can be, AND because social media polices those on its own(to an extent).
I'm not trying to troll you back, I'm being very serious. The way the rolls are set up is unhealthy on both sides. I would never want someone I cared about to play the killer roll alone and estranged for extended periods of time.
Yah, streamers are like professional or aspiring professional media figures, they must play to their audience. I don't begrudge them the tools of their jobs. I just don't personally like it in my recreation space and I think game companies are behind the trend on their stance toward negative streamers.
I will admit that some few are calm and morally grounded, showing acceptable sportsman ship under stress. And a few can make bad taste jokes without demonizing the "other". But, they are rare, and there would be more if they were properly coached/culled.
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I'll give you my personal example
1) take time off the game because its got me in a bad mental state.
2.) come back and play a couple killer games. I win probably 60% on average. Sadly even winning is miserable. Theyve over buffed survivors to where even if I want to let someone escape because they played well I don't anymore. I have to work TEN times harder to win as killer than I do as survivor.
3.) every match survivors teabag, send toxic messages, dc, die on hook. every. single. game. So after several games I myself start to be angry. I will then starting hitting them on hook and camping. I stop caring about their fun because *they make me not have fun*. And like I said, even winning isn't fun when the other side makes you miserable the whole time.
4.) Eventually just stop playing again. Tell myself I'm being immature and feeding the toxicity I hate so much.
5.) eventually come back to playing killer, and once again whether I win or lose the other side wants to be toxic and bully. I once again play until I become toxic. And I am fully aware yeah, I'm then feeding that energy into the non toxic survivors so they start.
Last night for the first time I just started bullying killers myself. Because of all the tunneling we had. Every single match had a tunnel. My 3 man swf -im the weakest player at just over 3k hours- even gets good randoms usually lately. Our random- not on comms- was smart enough to notice the tunneling and kept helping me body block the killer. Didn't matter. Still tunneled my friend out. We got a two escape if I'm not mistaken...But yeah it's at a point I just have to assume every player will be toxic and have to do the same.
If I go in trying to be friendly and fair, there is a 99% chance it'll back fire. Doesn't matter which side I'm playing. Also get hate messages even if I play fair and friendly. So there is a punishment but no reward.
But if I camp/tunnel as killer or teabag to tilt the killer/run to the corner as survivor theres a reward and no punishment.
There is a SIGNIFICANT portion of the player base in this game who are at their very core just ######### people. If they weren't being toxic here they would be toxic in another game, or irl. But the problem is we are all humans and it takes significant maturity and will power not to retaliate with the same energy. And this is a GAME. We log on to play, have fun, and relax. And many people log on simply to ruin that for others.
The only way to stop it is for the devs to *actually care* about player experience and to start banning those toxic players. But they won't and can't. Like lets be real here. A bad killer reports a body block? Thats not playing toxic it's just playing well. But when I play killer and the survivors just trade body blocks/sabos over ando ver for 5-10 minutes while not doing gens....yeah I get a 4k. But they loaded in ONLY to bully the killer. Had a match on eerie recently where they saboed a TON of hooks and wiggled free but NEVER touched gens. Just MOM, DH, Sabo, etc to screw with me. End game chat they admitted it. Just wanted to make me dc, had no intention of winning. But they were impressed I stayed and won.
Why load in JUST to be toxic AND admit it? But if I report that the devs just see me outplaying a sabo squad. I honestly don't think the devs fully understand the nuances of behavior in the game (no pun intended) or the subtleties of higher mmr game play.
That isn't a shot at the devs. People forget it's their JOB to MAKE the game. 40-60 hours per week on programming, art, lore, marketing, finances, map design, planning ahead, accounting, generic business things not even related to the game etc. Who the ######### at behavior can spend 3k hours on PLAYING like the players can?
Behavior really needs a handful of employees whose ONLY job is to spend 3-4 hours per day playing the game in live servers, and 3-4 hours of the day interacting with socialmedia/ facebook gorups/ reddit/ the forums here themselves, to understand the game and the community better to make better informed decisions on both balance and how to handle toxic player behaviors. again no pun intended. Literally both sides said eruption was going to get nerfed before it went live. Why did they not listen to us? Because they don't usually fully understand their changes until after they are live. Which is fair .
A handful of devs testing something will never see the same impact and variations on gameplay as the TENS OF THOUSANDS of players playing for TENS OF THOUSANDS OF HOURS.
The problem is the COMMUNITY is the problem. The devs can only do but so much.
The game is based lore wise around the concept of everyone being ruthless to each other to feed an eldritch horror negative emotions. Frankly the state of the community is pretty much the exact thing the game at it's core story wants. I'm not saying the devs WANT us all at each others throats and angry while continuing to go into the trials....but we are....and it's the same thing as watching trapper camp Jake and the entity being happy about it. It's pretty funny to me when I consider that aspect tbh. The game brings out an *us vs them* mentality and a *hunter prey me or you* mentality. at it's core it forces a negative psychology for most people. Combining that with some people being ######### in general, and you get a toxic community.
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You're point on regions is spot on. I found out recently players in japans meta just expect tunneling. It's just "part of the game". I forget where I read it but it made me realize yeah, we are mostly going to be yelling at each other in english and don't know what players on non english servers even have going on unless we interact. Makes me wonder also as you said- are we all playing a different game or something?
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Random comment
Played a wraith game with devour hope and make your choice. Get told I'm camping and tunneling even though I literally have to leave the hook for those perks to proc. Everyone had 1-2 hooks before I killed anyone
A huge part of this games toxicity is also a lack of accountability. Some people don't understand, don't learn or improve, they just want to listen to their echo chamber and complain.
Literally not possible to camp if I'm actually USING the devour hope and make your choice. But TWO players that game wanted to claim that was what happened. Lol ok sure bud.
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I did, you're just blind and ignorant.
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