Eruption Nerf: BHVR - This Is A Bad Idea.
From the patch notes:
First, Eruption will now cause the generator to lose 10% of its current progress, not total. This means the effect will be less severe on generators with less progress, but more impactful on generators that are nearly completed.
Second, Eruption will no longer apply the Incapacitated effect to Survivors who were repairing the generator when it exploded. Instead, Survivors who are actively working on the generator will scream and reveal their aura to the Killer for 10 seconds. Not only will this make the perk less frustrating for solo players, but it will also give the Killer crucial information on the other Survivors’ whereabouts so they can attempt to interrupt them.
We hope you’ll find this new version of Eruption to be much more comparable to other generator related perks!
Before you type something along the lines of 'lol QQ moar killer mains' - think about this for a second, because this is going to basically destroy the remnants of the somewhat varied meta we had for a while.
Was hoping that they'd change it to be powerful, but less annoying. Eruption was only a problem against solos - the power of the perk wasn't the issue, it was that it felt nasty to play against.
This is a massive nerf. It's still going to be pure garbage versus SWFs, and now also mediocre versus solos. It's...not quite a Thana level 'yeah, we don't want anyone using this perk again ever stay mad' sort of nerf - but it's still ridiculously heavy handed and unnecessary.
The aura reading is cute, I guess, but you'd be better off with NTH.
The regression nerf is massively unneeded. This is now just a really, really mediocre perk.
Keep in mind that PR was still at a higher pick rate - meaning that now, despite the stated goals of the 6.1.0 changes to make the meta more varied, we'll now be entering a point where the killer meta is less varied than before - with PR builds really being the only way to keep up with the crazy Stakeout + Hyperfocus + Toolboxes + PTS genrush squads.
And now, I will bet dollars to donuts, once Pain Resonance hits 50%+ usage rates, we'll be seeing that nerfed too.
Yeah, I'm a little annoyed about this - because it should have come with a nerf to the silly 'faster gen' perks I'm seeing more and more of.
We'll see how it plays out I guess but ouch.
I think what bothers me here is that it's yet another example of how differently BHVR treats killer and survivor perks that they feel need adjusting.
Dead Hard - reworked, still really good, if not better in some areas.
Thana, Ruin, Pop, Overcharge, now Eruption -
Comments
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I'm genuinely surprised they didn't replace incapacitation with entity blockers.
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Yeah, Eruption's dead. It's much worse now than it was in its original state, where it was subpar compared to other options but still usable. Currently, Eruption takes much more time to use than Jolt or Pain Resonance while providing less in return. Zero reason to use it over Call of Brine or Overcharge if you want a gen kicking perk.
Like, I'm happy they nerfed it, because Eruption was absolutely horrible to verse, but they missed the point. They needed to ditch Incapacitation as a status effect that could be applied on passive, non-chased survivors, and strengthen the perk in some other, less obnoxious way, not weaken it further. The aura reading is not very useful because you generally knew where the affected survivors were anyway on account of the screaming. You know, "I kicked that gen, I head Jane and Yui scream when I downed Dwight, there's two over there."
I dunno, it just always seems like they go in with a jackhammer where they only needed a chisel and leave rubble behind. Though I will say they've made a ton of recent changes to the game that I'm utterly thrilled about, so credit where it's due, things are definitely on the upswing despite this misstep.
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Yeah dead perk now.
We're gonna see PR and Joly skyrocket in use rate as everything else left is trash and they essentially just get defaulted. Then those will be nerfed because they're high in usage rofl.
Eruption is what made kicking gens worth it, Overcharge and CoB alone don't make kicking worth it.
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See - that would have been the smart way to do this. Or, if you want to go down this route - amp up the regression!
But no, they completely removed the incap, nerfed the regression into the ground (10% of current progress is hilariously bad) and added a janky aura reading that...you'd be better off running PR+FoR+DMS.
Which is what we're going to see. Pain Resonance...basically every game.
Meaning that PR will be the next perk nerfed, because that's now going to basically be the only decent option.
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Surge/Jolt is only really decent on instadown killers and even then...it's mediocre.
I had a game on Ghostface on Gideon against an HSFP (Hyperfocus + Stakeout + Fogwise + PTS) 4man and even with Surge going off pretty much constantly, I simply couldn't kill them fast enough. Gens just exploded.
Ugh.
Well, it was fun while it lasted.
What does annoy me though is that this is yet again another example of how differently BHVR treats survivor perks and killer perks when it comes to nerfing.
And yes, it's going to be 50-60% Pain Resonance pick rate, which - as I predicted - will see the QQ train now focus on PR+DMS until they gets gutted too.
Yeah, I'm pretty annoyed about this.
Imagine if BHVR treated killer perks like Dead Hard.
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Yeah, it's too much, imo. Eruption is officially gone from the meta.
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Not quite the point, I'm sure, but what does HSFP mean in this context?
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There really is a double standard when it comes to balancing both sides.
Overtuned survivor stuff stays in the game for literally years and when it is finally addressed it's like baby touches and they still stay in the meta.
Killer stuff that realistically isn't even that overtuned get nerfed because of lots of complaints and within months while being nuked from orbit to never be seen again.
They're so light handed on survivor nerfs and heavy handed on anything killer related.
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Where is the dead hard nerf? Survivors get multiple quality of life improvements, promises of accessibility changes, and now the perk they complained about the most is nerfed?
This is such a bad joke. Zero announcements if killers will ever get quality of life improvements. Zero announcements if killers will ever get accessibility changes. Zero announcements if the most complained about survivor perk will get a real nerf.
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How save front page. Duh.
Eruption is a dead perk. Huntress or nurse might use it but honestly I think they have better things to do than kick gens to maybe hopefully get value out of aura reading at some point. While I don't have it and I didn't enjoy playing against it, it's a shame to see killer meta options shrink.
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Hyperfocus + Stakeout + Fogwise + PTS in a 4man SWF.
Not all those perks on every survivor (you'll generally see 3 plus DH or CoH) but it allows all the gens to be done in about 4 minutes (often faster than the killer can kill you) if you go to a small map, and also gives 100% uptime on killer aura reading.
It's...basically the old genrush + OoO style and I'm starting to see it more.
It's going to be useful if you want to heavy slug on Nurse or Blight. So...yay, more of that I guess?
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Eruption is dead, good.
Also i doubt they will nerf Pain Res, its one of the most fair regression perks i doubt they would touch it, it would be really unnecessary.
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Gotcha. Yeah, they really need to change Hyperfocus- hit that with a nerf so toolboxes don't activate it and the build falls apart, since they have to rely on normal skillcheck chance and they can't benefit from inherent toolbox speed boosts either.
None of those other three perks are a problem individually (or even combined with one another), so you really just need to get Hyperfocus dealt with. I'd like to see that in the upcoming midchapter perk changes, ideally.
@ the wider topic, I think this is extraordinarily premature. I will say I think the current-not-total change is probably too much, but this hasn't even hit the PTB yet, so there'll be a chance to actually play with it and fine-tune your response instead of immediately going "dead perk ugh".
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This is the same team that nerfed Self-Care because its usage numbers were too high. Same with BBQ.
It's definitely a possibility. They will nerf things for no other reason than to try and create diversity.
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Why is anything being dead good?
Because...it makes killer mains suffer? Because basically removing a perk from the game (rather than reworking it Dead Hard style to still be good) is the exact opposite.
The problem is that now we're looking at a meta of a single perk and supporting perks - meaning that we're now officially in a less varied meta than we were pre 6.1.0, which was the thing they wanted to change.
And...'fair' has nothing to do with it.
Pop was fair, and they nuked it.
Overcharge was fair, and that didn't even make it off the PTB.
Ruin was fair, and it's not worth using anymore.
Mark my words - in a month, we'll be seeing the same volume of 'PR is boring and unfair to solos, nerf plz' threads that we did about Eruption and Thana.
The really sad part?
Things were decent for a while after 6.1.0. A few things needed tweaks, but BHVR decided to go at them with a blowtorch and pliers, and now we'll actually be worse off - with a single viable regression perk, and that perk requiring basically a full build to support.
It's going to be really, really dull to play against too.
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BBQ wasn't nerfed, the extra BPs didn't really affect a match.
Self-care, i guess it was stupid. But the perk was already bad in the first place, never seen a perk get complained by killers and survivors at same time.
I think Pain Res is fine. And i don't see many survivors complain about pain res, unless DMS is involved. But even that combo is fine.
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I say good. Maybe the gen kicking meta will die down a bit. But i can honestly still see slugging killers taking advantage of this more after dkwning someone. At least there is a skill part in that regard.
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That's kind of misleading, don't you think?
Like, yeah, those two perks did get nerfed because of high usage numbers... in the one specific update that was specifically geared towards shaking up a stale meta, something people had been complaining about and asking them to do for literal years beforehand. I don't see much evidence that the devs nerf based on pickrate alone, normally it's a perk that's picked pretty often because it's too strong and actually warrants the nerf.
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They are pretty much the same thing though.
My point is that BHVR have, since the 6.1.0 PTB, deliberately junked almost all the viable regression perks.
Thana? Worse than pre 6.1.0.
Ruin? Lol.
Pop? Meh.
Overcharge? Didn't even make it off the PTB, now worse than an empty slot a lot of the time (12 seconds is absurd).
Eruption? Bye bye.
So now it's going to be Pain Resonance all day, every day. Probably with DMS. Not because PR is fun, but because it's the only real game left in town.
So...what next?
Well.
Within a month, it's going to be wall to wall 'PR+DMS is unfair to solos and boring to face, nerf please'. And, once again, the word of the day is 'precedent'.
Yeah, I'm actually pretty salty about this one, because for a long while it looked like the developers were finally going to be a little more even-handed and considerate when it came to the killer experience.
This is only good if you actively hate killer mains and want them to be miserable.
There was never a 'gen kicking meta'. There was a regression meta, same as always - because a lethality meta will never be a thing and info perk get redundant fast.
Now it's still going to be a regression meta, but revolving around a single perk.
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No they will totally nerf PR. When it becomes the number one used perk alongside DMS the survivors will flood the forums once again and complain about it and the devs then will nerf it to the ground as they do with every strong overused killer perk. They did it with Thana, Overcharge, Ruin, Pop, and now eruption. If you think PR is safe you kidding yourself. No killer perk is safe if it's the most used killer perk,s unlike DH which was num one before its rework and still num on after its rework.
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I don't think it is, exactly, because pick rates are clearly a factor they use when deciding what to change and I doubt their goal of increasing perk diversity has gone anywhere. It'll always be there even if it's not overt.
Of course, equally important to this equation is that while I personally hated Eruption much more than any other slowdown perk, people will always complain en masse about the most commonly used ones, because slowdown is inherently annoying - at least, that's been my experience with the DBD community for as long as I've been here - and StarLost is right that we're likely to return to PR+DMS after this. So while you're right that it's not the only reason they'd do it, I would not at all be surprised to see PR on the chopping block within a year or so. They look at perks that get complained about - it's why Eruption is under fire now.
Shrug. I could have worded it better initially, but nerfs like this one don't give me much hope that BHVR can look at a perk and identify what exactly the problem is with its current function, or why it's more desirable than similar perks.
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My guy, what on earth are you talking about? The only two perks on your list there that weren't part of 6.1 are Thana and Eruption, and respectively, those perks were never actually viable and just super obnoxious on two killers, and objectively strong enough to warrant a nerf. You can't possibly be making the argument that neither of them needed a change, right? Even if you disagree with the change they got/are getting?
Both of those had a clear reason for the change that isn't pickrate - especially proven by Thana which didn't have a high pickrate unless you were playing Legion or Plague - and those reasons don't apply to the other viable regression/slowdown/what have you perks.
This also doesn't change the fact that this is a dev update, it's not even on the PTB yet. I'm not saying they will change the Eruption plans before live, but they could.
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Mm.
People forget that Dead Hard had usage rates exceeding 70% - and was left unchanged for years. And when it was changed, it was given the most gentle of love-tap nerfs, reworked into something still really powerful.
But yeah, watch this space. The first 'PR+DMS is boring and unfair to solos, BHVR is so killer sided if this isn't nerfed by tomorrow' thread is already germinating.
BBQ was absolutely nerfed - the extra BPs were extremely healthy to the game as it encouraged killers to spread hooks.
Barely anyone ran this for the info.
Self care was a fine perk - it served a purpose. Now it's basically a killer perk.
Yes, that combo is fine.
Guess what?
Pop was fine. So was Ruin. So was PTB Overcharge.
What happened to those perks?
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If anyone told me pain reso + dms is unhealthy / bad / unfair i would literally tell them to git gud and use their eyes
Eruption was absurdly strong and had to get the nerf hammer ( a bit softer though)
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Ruin and POP were changed in the 6.1 update, they nerfed multiple killer and survivor perks in that update and didn't buff any back until now, so that doesn't count.
Overcharge was buffed, the PTB version was never live, and the perk is still good, just gets overshadowed by COB, but even then has an insane synergy with it.
And thana was so bad that overtuned because of gen time increased, also if a perk is memed by both survivors and killers, its kinda of a giveway that it's gonna get touched.
Besides, Pain Res doesn't offer the big problem of passive slowdown or stalling gameplay, it's a reward for the killer for progressing the game. Unless they want to make more shake ups to regular mechanics and perks like they did in 6.1, i think PR is fine.
If a perk is strong but healthy, then let it be.
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While I am happy that the perk wil finaly not be so annoying and OP to go againts, this is from one extreme (OP) to another one (bad / trash).
So when you down someone, gens that you kicked before will lose on avarage ~6% of their total progress and then reveal the Survivor for few seconds that is probably far away while you will probably want to pick up the downed Survivor, etc. Great. No one will use it anymore.
What should be done instead was buff the regression and remove / reduce a lot the effect. Aura reading isn't much helpfull when they can still just fine doing the gen that just lost few seconds of progress while you are across half the whole map.
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I don't think it's that bad. It definitely should have kept the flat 10% (I'm hoping they reconsider that), but the aura reading is nice. Considering it happens at downs, it's like having both regression and BBQ in one perk. You know where to go next. You can probably also have some sweet snowballs or snipes (Huntresses will have a field day!) if you don't mind slugging a little bit.
Maybe in the next balance change they could rebalance regression perks like Thana. I never really used it, but still a bit salty that it went from +0.5% to "now the max you'll get is 6% slowdown unless you're a Plague or a Legion".
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You don't have to play with it to see that it's awful; We already have an equivalent in Pop. Pop does double the regression and is terrible. The aura reading doesn't compensate for the fact that the regression is so miniscule that it just means the gen will pop in your face by the time you get there to do anything about it. It's a niche perk now on like two killers and even they have better options.
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I agree it needed a nerf but this was way too hard of a nerf. Pop was fair and it was nerfed, Ruin was fair and it was nerfed. Thana was only useable on two out of 30 killers and it was nerfed. Overcharging by itself in the PTB was fair and it was nerfed. A perk of being fair doesn't mean ######### to the devs. If it is complained about by a lot of survivors it will be nerfed to the ground like they did with all those other perks. My point is the devs take nerfs way too far with killer nerfs. They dont actually try to fix the problem with a overpower perk they take the easy route and just nerf it to the ground so no one will every run it again. PR and DMS will get this treatment in a few months mark my words.
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If they didn't touch the regression part the perk would be fine and no longer OP.
But hey, not very surprised here, when BHVR nerf a perk 90% of the times they are becoming a perk useless instead simply less powerful.
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LOL, PTB overcharge was fine xD. No it wasn't, the perk is already used now, 400% regression for free and no cooldown, sorry but that perk was gonna be insane and its good that it never got live in that state. Honestly they probably would have destroyed the perk if it ever made it like that with backlash it would have received.
Ruin and POP were part of 6.1 update, yes they were overnerfed but i still would agree with their decision at the time to nerf them, it was their intention after all. I do hope that those perks get some tweaks to make them better, but they also didn't buff any of those perks from the 6.1 update, so i hope they will do at some point.
Besides, Pain Res is a healthy slowdown. If a perk is strong but healthy i would prefer for it to stay.
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agreed about pop / ruin and overcharge.i'm happy with thana gettin gutted though it was too much on those 2 killers that were running it basekit
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No it isn't.
It WILL be a niche perk now on like two killers IF the changes that we've only just heard about go through the PTB and onto the live servers, which is not a guarantee. The time to bemoan Eruption being a dead perk and start doomsaying about how it's a slippery slope to more nerfs is- well, never, that's never appropriate. But the time to criticise this change for being too much is when it actually happens.
That, or criticise it on the PTB feedback forum if you're on PC and can test.
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Sick huntress snipes unless: it's an indoor map, the survivor has distortion, there's a line of sight blocker in the way. That's a lot of caveats for a perk that needs setup from a momentum based killer that doesn't really want to be stopping to kick gens anyway.
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Couldn't agree more, honestly they can keep the regression at 10%, they really don't need to nerf the regression part of the perk
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- Wrongo. Thana was buffed, and promptly nerfed to worse than it was before 6.1.0, purely due to forum QQ. Ruin and Pop...why don't those count? If the goal is to make the meta more varied, and BHVR take steps to make the meta specifically less varied by removing viable options (and now literally paring them down to 1 viable option) that's absolutely relevant.
- Overcharge is a trap. It's like self care now. It takes 12 seconds for the regression to reach the same rate as regular regression, meaning that in most situations you'd be better off with an empty slot. The only reason you saw it much was the synergy with Eruption (also CoB).
- CoB is mediocre. A single gen tap completely negates it. Again, you only saw this a lot because of Eruption.
- Thana was a little overtuned, but - and this is my exact point here - rather than tweaking it as they did with Dead Hard and the like, they basically removed it from the game. It's objectively worse than it was *before the buff*. Why would the devs deliberately make a perk not worth using on anyone if there wasn't some sort of animus in play?
- PR is a fair perk. So was Ruin. So was Pop. So was BBQ. So was old Billy and Slinger. So was those nerfed Twins addons and that Nemesis addon. These were all things that were fair, but were nerfed either because of forum QQ or simply because they were used too much - even in cases where they were used too much literally because they were the only decent option (see Twins and Nemesis addons). Being fair doesn't mean it won't get destroyed. It's all about how much people complain and how much it's used.
- Yes, I wish that 'strong but healthy' meant that a perk wouldn't get gutted. But see above.
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I never said half that stuff bud. I don't know nuthin about no slippy slope. Are you arguing with another person or aggressively strawmanning me? I'll bet you a steam game of your choice that it goes live with either the nerfs announced or a slight variant (+5% regression). How about that?
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It wasn't the regression part for me anyway,it was the freaking 25 secs of being USELESS 😂
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You were responding to me, and so it was logical to assume you're countering my post, which was about this thread being premature. That involves the slippery slope stuff, fair enough if you don't personally think that.
Whether it goes live with the changes as-is or not isn't the point. The point is that people are acting as though it's set in stone without testing it OR giving feedback in the appropriate space, even knowing that those two things do make a difference in this game. My only criticism here is of people being premature and overreacting, because things do get changed from PTB to live all the time.
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I mean, that's what we're doing right now, isn't it? We're complaining about the changes to Eruption in hopes that BHVR will see them and change their mind. At least, that's what I thought we were doing.
As for the doomsaying, I don't think it really counts as such when this is a plainly observable trend we have seen. Killer gen regression perks exist in an endless game of whack-a-mole where the best contenders get the mallet and others pop from the earth until they're the tallest one standing, rinse-repeat. Expecting this not to happen is the unrealistic stance, imo.
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Not only is eruption dead, but I'm genuinely surprised that they didn't reveal a change to DH as well, at least that way they can say "we're not just changing killer perks".
The change to eruption after the meta shake up was definitely needed. The hindered status effect was too OP, but we're still seeing just as many complaints about DH as we always have. Make no mistake it's better than it was, but with so many perks allowing second chances now, there's just no need (imo) for DH to be allowed to be used over and over.
But yeah, BHVR has officially killed eruption. All they needed to do was block the gens for 20 seconds instead of the hindered status effect. Being able to see auras halfway across the map on a generator is only viable if you're nurse or a long-range killer like Huntress.
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Feels good not having to worry about that anymore after the update xD
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the nerf is needed otherwise the people that do nothing but kick gens all game will keep doing that, thank you devs, sometimes u listen to the feedback
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Sure.
And, as I and others suggested, it should have been a gen block.
But - and you're welcome to check my post history, because yet again I frigging called this - that wasn't going to happen. Because when BHVR nerf a killer perk, the goal is to effectively remove it from the game. See Ruin, Pop, Thana, OC.
There are some very rare exceptions, but those are exactly that.
When is the last time BHVR walked back a nerf to a killer perk? I'm...actually struggling to remember more than one.
Again, the word of the day is 'precedent'.
We know what BHVR are going to do because that's what they have always done in the past.
We are giving feedback. AFAIK, the PTB isn't open.
Also - why are you playing forum cop? If you don't agree with feedback, then you don't have to. But saying 'well, you shouldn't be allowed to give this feedback yet because I say so'...not sure what that's about.
Once again - it's going to go live as is. Because that's what happened to Thana, Ruin, Pop etc. despite people telling BHVR that they were junking the perks.
BHVR know their game. They know what changes will do. Take a look at Thana and tell me there was no malice or deliberate overnerfing there.
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Yeah. I'd developed a habit of just teabagging angrily whenever I got kicked off a gen and there was another survivor to dance with because I literally could not do anything better with my time. Couldn't even open a damn chest. Incapacitation should never be applied to survivors by another means than the killer's direct attention. As a passive effect, it's not only too strong, it's patently obnoxious.
The Incapacitation also led me to a few situations where another survivor got pissed with me because they didn't understand why I wouldn't heal them or work on a gen with them. 25s is a long time.
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Why are you surprised? We got over a year of BHVR telling survivors they care about the survivor experience, months of BHVR telling survivors they care about survivor accessibility issues, and now we get buff after buff for survivors, and zero anything for killers. Why on earth was anyone expecting BHVR to help with killer frustrations, when they refuse to talk about it at all, and instead just give survivors patch after patch of good things for survivors?
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You can look at how behavior has balanced things in the past and work from there. It's silly to try and be an enlightened centrist and say golly gee guys they could just do anything! We'll never know until it happens!
Employ deductive reasoning. PTB overcharge went from full regression to 75%. PTB dead hard went from 1s of endurance to .5s. They never change the entire concept of a perk after changes have been announced for it, just simple number tweaks. With the new version of eruption revealed, there are simply no numbers that they're willing to do that'll make it a viable perk.
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The really frustrating part is that, running Empathy, I was actually getting pretty sharp at dodging Eruption. Like...occasionally I'd waste a bit too much time not working on that gen, but the only time it would catch me was an instadown killer.
There were much, much better ways of doing this - and people were suggesting them left right and center.
I hate to be a tinfoilhatter, but it's times like this where it's hard not to think BHVR have some sort of animus against killer players.
That Thana nerf hurt my soul, because that was just meanspirited. Not 'oh, this perk is annoying so we're changing it a bit' - full on 'we don't want you to ever use this perk again, stay mad'.
And yes, that's frustrating.
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The thing with Thana that still baffles me is that everyone was complaining that it was way too strong on Legion and Plague. The nerfs we got proceeded to make the perk completely useless for anyone who wasn't Legion and Plague. Just... ?????
It's because of that that I disagree that BHVR knows what they're doing when they lay out these perk changes. The impression I get is that oftentimes, they really don't. Like, the Calm Spirit 'buff'? The Pharmacy changes because Meg might steal your medkit if you for some reason didn't pick it up? I don't think they're trying to make perks useless so much as they just don't understand what makes them good - unless they're trying to make the perk useless because they want people to stop using it, which admittedly may well be the case here (and definitely was with Ruin, Pop, DS, etc.)
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Mandy made a very indignant post implying that dead hard might maybe be looked at sometime around the heat death of the universe after the eruption nerf.
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