"one perk should never be the undisputed best choice."
BHVR says "one perk should never be the undisputed best choice." So this means Dead Hard should be getting a major nerf, right?
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RIP Pain Resonance as well then
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Can't take away Survivor's favorite toy; they might stop buying Feng skins.
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The sad part?
Pain Resonance was used more than Eruption, which was at a...what? 17-20% usage rate?
(Looks at survivor perk usage rates, sighs angrily and goes back to leveling Ace).
What really grinds my grapes about this entire thing is that BHVR said that they wanted to make the killer meta more varied, as back then it was either PR+DMS, Ruin, Pop or some combination of these.
So they buffed Thana and Eruption, nerfed Ruin and Pop, nerfed Overcharge of all things (outside of the bug, I still maintain that vanilla OC was actually better than the new one), then nerfed Thana and now Eruption. All while buffing faster gen perks and adding more of the sodding things.
Meaning that the only game in town is going to be Pain Resonance. We've gone down from a stale meta of three to a meta of one.
And...what do you think happens to Pain Resonance now?
Are BHVR going to buff killer regression perks to compete, or are they going to nerf PR?
Before you answer - Twins and Nemesis addon nerfs.
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We are just plaything in 1vs4, cant have nice thing. Also, bad business decision for dev to nerf cash cow.
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So instead of making it a good choice sometimes, it's just nerfed to never be the right choice lol.
The effect itself could be okay, except they don't understand how costly it is for killers to kick gens. The only reason it was worthwhile was because of Eruption. So the new effect is very bad because now you have no reason to be kicking gens in the first place.
The irony of that statement and DH is palpable though for sure. You could also apply that to CoH, there's no reason you would ever take a different healing perk over CoH.
Also what about Exhaustion perks applying to this statement in general? If your goal is to win there is never any reason you would not run an Exhaustion perk, period. They're way better than all other perks. So does that mean Exhaustion perks need a nerf overall? By their statement they do.
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The tricky part about that is that Dead Hard isn't the undisputed best choice if you're looking at it from strength alone.
Sprint Burst, Lithe, and Overcome are all much better picks for getting distance and breaking chases- people are just more comfortable with DH and prefer playing aggressively without actually breaking chase, which is what DH does. It's difficult to think of a way to make the perk less appealing without entirely reworking it to do something entirely different, and if that's the road we're going down, it makes sense it'd take significantly more time than a normal balance change.
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That's such a bad joke. Dead Hard is the undisputed best choice, which is why it's still the #1 survivor exhaustion perk.
Dead Hard needs a giant nerf, like what BHVR just did to Eruption. None of this "let's make it different, but still highly valued" garbage. I want it nerfed to the ground just like what they did with eruption. We've had such a long string of good things for survivors, that BHVR could at least nerf dead hard into the ground as a fair trade.
Something like Dead Hard only works on basic attacks, can only be used once per game, and no longer gives the survivor a speed boost when triggered successfully. Nerf and bury the perk. Make it clear the intent is to stop most people from using it, like what they just did with eruption.
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I'm still waiting for the call of brine and pain res nerf because I also see those in my games a lot
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I don't see any evidence that BHVR will buff other regression perks to help killers. They only promised to "fix the kill rate", which could mean giving killers generic number buffs, that doesn't help their player experiences, but does raise the kill rate back to where BHVR wants it to be. Like maybe they'll make the lunge distance 2% longer, which technically is a buff, but doesn't make the killer experience feel any better.
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Pretty sure I just went over why it might be the most picked even if it isn't the strongest, so I don't need to repeat that.
As for everything else; bit harsh, no? The time to do that would have been 6.1, but the devs decided it was better to actually try and fix DH instead of burying it, which I think is probably fair. It was the only perk that got changed in that update which was actually hugely broken and needed changes, so I can understand why they'd make it an exception in their approach even in the one variety meta-shakeup patch they've done
Whatever the reason was, we're past 6.1.0 now, so perk changes shouldn't be aimed at burying perks into irrelevance unless it's strictly necessary. DH is mostly fair with the exception of its use at pallets, so I wouldn't say it's super necessary here.
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after survivors will receive all the perks in the world, but they will say that the killers got their buff
so it's fair
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You should start complaining about it on the forums! Everyone can watch in fascinated horror, of just how much BHVR is willing to buff survivors, without giving killers any information of what their plans for killers is going to be.
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you said this in a discussion where the eruption was killed and at the same time dh was not touched (dh wins many times more time than the eruption)
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Yup.
I think the Eruption changes might be a bit much, I think it should remain total progress instead of current- or maybe get a higher percentage of current so it better competes with Pop, one of the two. That opinion is, however, completely irrelevant to the topic of Dead Hard.
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Comparing dh and eruption wont help you at all. Eruption was without a doubt the best gen regression perk as there is no counterplay to it for solo q players.
Dh in certain situations and against certain killers(one hit killers) is useless and doesnt shine over other exhaustion perks at all. It has a counterplay to it. Doesnt matter how boring it is for killers of "waiting it out." Survivors wait out pain res and thats a solid counterplay so im confident it wont be touched at all.
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According to many survivors, eruption was “useless” against SWFs, so in their eyes it didn’t shine over other regression perks against all survivors.
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They're both "obvious choice" perks with too much value. They're both problems for the game and should be addressed. Eruption was stronger than Dead Hard in terms of effects on a match. But that just changed. Dead Hard is now the best perk in the game.
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It wouldn't settle any of the debate, but I'd be willing to bet the numbers were concerning when BHVR looked at kill rates and sorted for Eruption vs no Eruption.
BHVR has a tendency to use obtuse wording in their communications for whatever reason when they could be much more clear. I don't think they're referring to pick rate when they say "undisputed best choice". I have a feeling they mean "players generally have a tremendously higher win rate with Eruption than they do without Eruption, and this perk affects win rates more than others."
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Swfs dont make up majority of the survivor playerbase. And tbh, i still do see some swf players fall for eruption
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Dh is the most used. But its still debatable for it being the best perk when there is counterplay to it being one hit killers, lag latency, waiting it out. Even sprint burst has consistent results than dh. I just believe killers have an issue when they get outplayed when a survivor times it well.
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Do people actually believe the “sprint burst is actually better” argument? Do people really think survivors, out of the goodness of their hearts, are purposely avoiding sprint burst because they want to provide a more fun experience for the killer? Sprint Burst doesn’t even provide constant value across killers either. LoL if you try sprint burst against blight, and even wraith would just cloak and quickly close the distance. Sprint burst is not the survivors “best kept secret”, it’s trash compared to the current dead hard.
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And trapper doesn’t make up the majority of the killers, but some people absolute love to keep bringing up trapper’s traps as an excuse that dead hard is “balanced” now.
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But its not just him. You have one down killers. Bubba, ghostface, myers, clown-iri, huntress-iri, billy, wesker, and many more.
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If thats the case, then both perks have its flaws and one is better than the other in certain situations. There is no clear perk that outshines the other overall because every killer is different. Every map is different. Its the reason eruption nerf was a higher priority. It clearly outshined the other regression perks. And thats why the OP of this thread is completely wrong about dh getting a major nerf.
Besides, even if it did, ppl will still find a way to use it and killers will complain again
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Eruption clearly didn't outshine all the other regression perks, because pain res still had a higher pick rate. The big lesson is that eruption had the PERCEPTION of outshining all the other regression perks, which is why it was the most complained about regression perk.
Similarly, dead hard has the perception of outshining all the other regression perks, which is why it's still the most complained about exhaustion perk.
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I feel like DH could be more in line with David's other perks, maybe requiring a Survivor to get a safe unhook or protection hit for another Survivor to be able to use it?
Personally I dont use DH anymore, I use to use it post-Patch 6.1.0 but realized that I relied on it a bit too much so I started using other perks.
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The lesson to be learned is so long as you get the dbd twitter mob behind your idea you can convince BHVR to nerf anything you want them to as harsh as you want them to.
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Fitst of all if dbd said eruption outshined the rest then im taking their word for it. I could careless about pick rate. Im more concerned over the effects of perks in a match.
And its the reason i believe once again dh doesnt outshine at all because its not just certain killers that counter it. Lag/ping is also an issue on both sides.
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I’m just going to say this
JUST BECAUSE TWO THINGS ARE PROBLEMATIC DOESN’T AUTOMATICALLY MEAN WE NERF THE OTHER SIDE!!!!!
DH is problematic yes but that can be fixed you don’t have to nerf both sides every update.
Stop with this bullshit mentality that we need to nerf that to cause it’s just as bad.
everyone has turned them into a Us Vs Them riot
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If it didn't have the incapacitation effect maybe it would've been complained about less. But having a perk that removes a player from normal gameplay without needing direct interaction with the killer is awful perk design.
But as far as 'outshines every other perk' it absolutely does right now. You get 9s from the 10% chunk on down, 25s where the survivor can't play the game, and 6.25s of additional regression while the survivor is incapacitated. That's 40+ seconds of slowdown from hitting a single survivor from just one perk.
Even *if* Jolt hit 3 gens every down, you'd only get 21.6 seconds of gen progress removed and survivors could counteract the regression immediately.
The numbers and potential with Eruption isn't even close to other slowdown perks currently.
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Of course you don't care about the pick rate, because it doesn't fit your narrative. Dead hard should get buried into the ground, so killers can finally enjoy the meta shakeup they were supposed to get.
I just want BHVR to stop doing this double standard. If a killer perk can get nerfed into the ground because it's perceived as the best regression perk, then dead hard should get nerfed into the ground because it's perceived as the best exhaustion perk.
And Us vs Them is mostly meaningless on these forums, because 99% of the time people only say it when people are complaining about survivors. If you gathered all the times people said "us vs them" on these forums, you'd discover it's very rarely ever said in response to people complaining about killers.
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I will look forward to full removal of all the regression/slowdown perks while increasing gen times to 120sec lul
I suppose that's the way we go.
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I’ll never understand this company.
How do you create things and then regret creating them so you destroy the things you created.
Get your shite together.
Do they have any foresight whatsoever?
Like goddam.
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I mean, you kind of do need to nerf both sides at the same time. Maybe not in equal proportion, depending on how far the outliers at any particular time are, but nerfing things that are too strong on only one side (and similarly for buffing things that are too weak, especially if these aren't the same side) is kind of unhealthy.
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Nah. I have come to the conclusion that SP is way better vs blight than dh. It's just too easy to bait dh if there is any collision nearby. Sure if they force you to flick for the hit, you eat the dh but that flick was already dodge able. A 99'd sprint burst can get a few rushs in-between you and the blight, which is massive if used when he's 2 rushes in already. Plus if blight players really get hit by dh often, just run alch ring.
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