Opinion on boon perks

All boon perks, that are not COH, are basically just a killer perk, they are a waste of time.

Why do i think that? Simple, their effects are niche and second the boon range.

None of the other boons have universally good effects like COH, they could be helpful or they could do nothing but waste time setting a boon.

Secod the range issue, COH is the only boon that benefits for being faraway from a killer while whole the other boons require you to be in the zone of a killer, thats why the range is not an issue for COH, COH could have a range of 2m and would still be as good as it is.

While all the other boons are just a waste of time, their range is short, require you to take the killer to the boon, so making them easier to remove, which just makes you waste more time.

Boons, if not COH are a waste of time.

I am not saying this for them not to nerf COH, but saying that boon perks in general are just badly designed because COH is so strong compared to the others.

Comments

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,695

    Exponential has its uses (but unhookable sabo builds are the worst thing to play against). And Shadow Step has niche applications.

    Dark Theory is the pointless one... but if a non-durational speed boost was any stronger, then there'd be big problems.

  • Entitled_survivor
    Entitled_survivor Member Posts: 828

    i'll tell you one thing,,,Midwich offering , sabo toolboxes ,3 petrified oaks ,exponential ,soul guard, breakout ,,one person working on gens while the rest laugh at your attempts to hook ,works on badham, dead dawg saloon as well and probably other maps i haven't tried out ,,not as good as circle for sure but can make you just as miserable with a dedicated squad

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,695

    The only one that needs some sort of buff is Dark Theory; the problem is the others have to share space with CoH, which wants to be placed in a completely different spot.

    The boons having to be near the Killer is good! Otherwise the entire concept of the Killer taking time to snuff it as a counter makes no sense. And it also means that you don't get "person brings perk, three other people also benefit at no risk or cost".

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,543

    CoH loses part of its benefit if it's too out of the way though. What use is shaving 4 seconds off healing time if you have to spend 6 seconds getting into its range? At that point, healing on the spot would be faster.

    I don't think CoH is as big of a deal as people are making it out to be, and it's frustrating that the most common take on it is to just nuke all boons from the game forever when only one boon actually sees regular use.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,513

    can you really blame killer for wanting survivor perks to get nuked? that is what survivor do to most killer perks... see latest one being eruption. with current tradjectory, if survivor kept getting their way on every perk, the killer will have no perks that help them win. it is same with survivor perks following the killer perk treatment.

  • FengShuiExe
    FengShuiExe Member Posts: 91

    I think the problem with COH is the bonus healing speed it gives that can stack with med kits. I don't mind a survivor being able to self care, but honestly its just a better self care in most cases. if the healing speed bonus and self care speed was adjusted it would be more in line with the other boons.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,543

    Eruption didn't get that many complaints, and the only complaint it got was that 25 seconds of incapacitation just puts the game on pause for them. BHVR's the one that went scorched earth on it.

    BHVR is absolutely not listening to survivors.

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081

    Yep, most complaints from the survivor side i saw and created even were trying to buff the perk in the regression or removing the cooldown to compensate.

    It's not survivors fault thaat bhvr decided to be extreme, most survivors want killer perks to still be good, but they want to have fun

  • egg_
    egg_ Member Posts: 1,933
    edited February 2023

    This is probably one of your few takes that I totally disagree with

    COH is "not a problem" many times because it's just the random mikaela that boons 8 times the same totem in an area the killer already wants to pressure, wasting a whole gen in progress. COH shows it's true strength when survivors apply a minimum of reason when placing it. A well placed COH, in an area where gens are done, and where generally the killer would have to waste a lot of time to reach just to snuff it, is insanely strong, because any possible pressure they can get is nullified by the survivor running over there. The killer ends up in a lose/lose situation: commit to the survivor in an area where it makes it difficult to reach back the generators being worked on in time, or drop the chase, giving the survivor the chance to reset their pressure.

    It's just like (old?) DH, bad players making bad use of it don't affect the potential strength of the perk

    And this without even taking into consideration some totem placements (main building top floors) that are extremely excruciating to reach for killers, but for 1 survivor out of 4 is just a mild deviation from the main route

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,543

    A well placed COH, in an area where gens are done, and where generally the killer would have to waste a lot of time to reach just to snuff it, is insanely strong, because any possible pressure they can get is nullified by the survivor running over there.

    I don't see it that way, because if the killer drops a chase on an injured survivor, they lose that pressure anyway. CoH doesn't really change this, it's not like survivors are permanently injured. Nothing is stopping the injured survivor from finding a teammate and getting healed by them, possibly faster than they could get healed off CoH.

    The only thing CoH does is improve consistency a little bit, as the survivor doesn't need to find another survivor in order to heal up, but that comes at the expense of being slower than just getting healed by a teammate, even without CoH.

    If the killer is patrolling a 3-gen, you do need the boon to be close, otherwise the extra time lost ferrying back and forth is going to cut into the ability to break the 3-gen hold.

    I don't know, I'm just not seeing that much value come out of it. I've done much better with other healing perks.

  • wydyadoit
    wydyadoit Member Posts: 1,140

    as a relatively skilled killer main - scratch marks make me come towards an area. if you're running around inside of CoH and i see a scratch mark then i'm going to find the blood stain and find you. or at the very least i'm going to find the totem that is booned.

    the visual indication of scratch marks is over 150m. that's the benefit of having them removed.

    2% haste is... honestly opinion or situation based.

    i can't speak for the last one.

  • TeabaggingGhostface
    TeabaggingGhostface Member Posts: 3,108

    Dark theory is the strongest perk in the game

  • Eelanos
    Eelanos Member Posts: 467

    CoH + Shadowstep single handedly carried me once against a Nurse's Calling.

    Dark Theory may not be that good, but I have a tiiiiny bit more of respect for it since it literally made the building on Dead Dawg Saloon an infinite of sorts. Don't ask me how, but I could not loop around it until I set it up, then the killer literally couldn't catch up to me. I don't know what happened there, but it was really funny.

    What I can't seem to make work is Exponential. Even when I'm getting slugged, it has netted me no value whatsoever. Either I'm on the other side of the map and I can't reach it before everyone dies, or I get slugged near it but the killer instantly breaks it.

    Soul Guard, out of all things, has netted me more value than Exponential.

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 17,955

    Unpopular opinion - all Boons, INCLUDING Circle of Healing, are a waste of time.

    All Boons except for CoH are really bad. I mean, I got use of Exponential once when another Survivor had it and one time a Survivor got up against me with Exponential. And thats it.

    Dark Theory is a Joke. It should have never existed in the first place, since it affects Movement Speed it had to be weak by default and is unable to be buffed (unless they give it a second effect).

    And Shadowstep is somewhat okish, but not worth the time.

    And honestly, while CoH is the strongest, I feel that people who boon their Totem over and over again are a liability to the team. They can rather spend the time on a Gen. I just hate it when I see a Survivor reblessing their totem just for points. Or blessing a Boon next to a Killer.

    Last but not least, if the info from the German Dev-Update were true, Circle of Healing is also potentially being nerfed. And if that happens, we can call Boons a failed concept if almost all of them are not good and the one which was good got nerfed so often that it is bad.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 14,472
    edited February 2023

    Boons are hard to balance as they're unhealthy for the game in design.

    CoH is way over tuned and gets its value being away from the action. While the other ones are at least healthier in needing to be close to everything but with some being under tuned.

    Main one needing buffs is Dark Theory, but what do you do with it? This is one of those perks that with the slightest tweak could go from bad to way too strong very quickly.

    Honestly Exponential and Shadowstep are fine. People make the comparison of why run these when you could run Unbreakable/Distortion ect, but that's missing a huge point, it's group wide, not just yourself. If you account for the fact that it's for your entire team and just taking one perk slot instead of one on each person I think that more than accounts for the limitations of being a boon.

    Boons are not supposed to be individually better than their personal counter parts, it's supposed to be a weaker version for you, but with the trade off that it effects the entire team with less perk slots wasted.

    They are team perks, not self perks.

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081

    The problem is that they take time to setup, their range is limited, and can be removed insanely fast. While the self versions are way more consistent and effective.

    So no, they are not good and not worth it. And if COH ever gets nerfed to being a bad perk, there just no point in bringing boons at all.

    I guess when that happens, survivors can just bring med kits, We will make it or other healing perks and stop wasting time with totens.

    Seeing a Mikaela booning the same totem for the 3rd time flashbacks, pls let it end.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 14,472

    "The problem is that they take time to setup, their range is limited, and can be removed insanely fast. While the self versions are way more consistent and effective. So no, they are not good and not worth it."

    Which is exactly as I mentioned, the trade off for it being team wide instead of for yourself. They are still better for your team than the individual ones. You're still missing the point.

    "And if COH ever gets nerfed to being a bad perk, there just no point in bringing boons at all."

    I disagree, most the others still have purpose as a TEAM use. No one saying for CoH to be made a bad perk either, just a balanced perk.

    "Seeing a Mikaela booning the same totem for the 3rd time flashbacks, pls let it end."

    In the current meta if she's actually booning it that many times that means the killer is being dumb and wasting time snuffing it over and over. Please let the Mikaela continue because it means the killer is wasting time and throwing the game. I don't think you're seeing that the time the Mikaela is wasting doing that with the time the killer is wasting snuffing it is a net POSITIVE for your team overall.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 7,878

    My opinion is that boons need to have better counterplay from the killer side, but then the boons other than CoH need to be made a bit stronger to compensate.

    I think their current lack of counterplay in some situations (eg. inconvenient totem locations for killer that aren’t worth taking the time to snuff) hold the mechanic back a lot because it limits the strength of the perks. A survivor going out of their way to heal in a boon usually doesn’t matter as much as a killer going over to snuff it while survivors advance their objective. CoH is the only boon that sees regular use and it’s too strong. The others are situational at best.

    Nerfing CoH to be at the power level of the other boons without changing anything about the baseline boon totem mechanics likely means completing nuking the perk and boons as a mechanic would then die because none of them would be that good anymore.

    I agree with this and I sort of wonder if some of this has kept CoH as strong as it is for this long. If used poorly, CoH (or any other boon) can quickly lose you the game and so when used poorly, it looks more balanced than it really is.

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081

    People in solo queue just set boons in the open, in bad areas where the killer has interest coming, next to gens that people are working and other dumb mistakes. Like i have seen survivors repeatedly set up COH, when i am playing Plague.

    They aren't on gens, they let survivors go on hooks and just not helping at all.

    Boons are a time investment for survivors to and sometimes you loose games because those players aren't being productive.

    Maybe that is the reason why COH didn't get nerfed until now, bad players dying using the perk because they are wasting the team's time.

    This stuff happens with COH, survivors complain about teammates setting up COH.

    What do you think is gonna happen if it is any of the other boons? Boons will become a dead mechanic and a killer perk, if they don't make some changes to them.

    COH is crazy and yes i do think it does to much and doesn't suffer from the problems of the other boons.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 14,472

    Well now you're just complaining about bad players being dumb, that has absolutely nothing to do with boons.

    That's like complaining about bad map design where there's a dead zone with no pallets and windows because survivors are dumb and run over there. That wouldn't be a map issue, that would be a player issue.

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081

    I complaining that boons are a time investment that require you do side stuff for what can amount to nothing.

    You can bring unbreakable and never use it, but you didn't hurt the team.

    You can bring distortion and it never activates, but you don't hurt the team, if you are in SWF you can even call out that the killer has no aura reading.

    The boon versions require time, they already start at disadvantage, so if you don't get any value from them it's even worse, since you waste time setting the boon at least, if you didn't already wasted time looking for a totem.

    Also people don't use them. I don't remember the last time i saw a boon that wasn't COH or if had other boons, it had COH.

    People do all types of builds, even if just to have fun and try something different. But not boons, i don't agree that the boon mechanic is fine and i don't think the benefits outway all the cons. And i am almost sure that if bhvr ever makes COH a bad perk, the whole boon mechanic is dead.

  • Witchubtet
    Witchubtet Member Posts: 642

    I think the issue with boons is if they make them too strong they’d have to make that useless boon destroying perk base kit. Because on some maps you can effectively cover like 30% of them with a boons. Especially if it has vertically like DDS or RPD. It’s the same reason they don’t want to buff some Hex’s

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,543

    Hexes aren't location-bound though.

    But yeah, maps with verticality are the biggest spanner in the balancing works. The Game, Midwich and RPD can really push boons to be significantly stronger than having one out in the cornfield on the Coldwinds.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,514

    The issue is that there is no counterplay to boons on the killer side. If put in a even decent spot, it will always more efficient overall for survivors to have that boon down. CoH wouldn't have had to be nerfed to 50% if there was any downside to just booning every time the killer goes out of their way to snuff it.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,514

    CoH - hard meta

    Exponential - this perk is downplayed so hard. It can solo carry games by itself and puts killers in a unwinnable situation when used by competent players in the right spot.

    Shadow step - pairs with any other boon, can give you free escapes once in a while.

    Dark theory - It's meh, yeah.

  • Carth
    Carth Member Posts: 1,200

    Agreed, it's unfortunate that CoH limits the other boons/I wish they played around with the range for the others.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 14,472

    You're still just describing people being dumb, that isn't a boon issue.

    The reason you see those other boons rarely is because most people are selfish and don't want to run team builds.

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081

    That is not true, people run altruistic builds all the time, even perks that aren't that crazy strong like For the people.

    They just don't want to have to run boons because of the commitment that they are. They are way too restrictive, but COH doesn't care about the restrictions, i have said it before, COH could have the radius of 2M and it still would be the best boon in the game.

    Because the nature of the perk doesn't care about that. The others do and are limited because of it.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,543

    That's not true at all. As others have mentioned, you can lose games from survivors wasting time setting up a boon.

    If the killer snuffs CoH before a survivor can get a heal out of it, that's a major dent in the survivors' efficiency.

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081

    As a final point why.

    Even the individualistic perks are better for the team.

    1 Distortion is way better than Shadow Step, because you can actually say what is happening, the information aspect of the perk is as strong as the aura reveal itself, and shadow step doesn't give you that, so when you actually want to play safe and hide your aura, giving that information for the team is way better than a 24m safe zone. The hiding scratch marks is useful if you are in a in door map.

    And unbreakable, just having that perk already benefits your team, since releases pressure for them. And while exponential gives it to all players, i would argue that the reliability of being able to do it whenever with no requirements whatsoever is superior.

    So no, i don't even think the argument of being team perks gives them credit.

    Add the fact that the killer can't do anything to stop the individual perks, not needing to do side stuff and not being limited to an area.

    Nah, bring distortion or unbreakable, you help the team just as much and way more reliably with those

  • Witchubtet
    Witchubtet Member Posts: 642

    Also the fact that they can be relit at will or whenever a the killer snuffs it. Now if it had a thing like “can’t be relit after being snuffed for 120 seconds” I think that’s a fair exchange

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,514

    I said decent spot. If the killer has to go into a dead zone, walk to the top of ironworks or anything like that it's inefficient. If you are setting up boons next to an unfinished gen, what was the point.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,543

    But setting it up out of the way also reduces CoH's efficiency. What's the use of shaving off 4 seconds of healing time if it takes you 6 seconds to get there?

    CoH still needs to be somewhat close to the action, otherwise it risks losing its benefits.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,514

    But nearly every map has some totem that covers a wide area and is hard to access for the killer. Also are you just assuming every survivor has a med-kit or is next to another survivor to heal them? What makes CoH crazy is that 4 people have an infinite source of healing that everyone can use at once. In solo, you don't need to run around looking for teammates. In a swf it just lets you reset faster as a team. Quite a few maps have hard to reach places in the center of the action such as: Ironworks, Thompson house, rpd, badham, Garden and Eyrie just to name a few

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,543

    But if they're hard to reach, that also means it takes longer to set them up and to take advantage of them.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 7,878
    edited February 2023

    Even if it takes longer to reach for survivors, that’s more than worth it if it also makes it take longer to reach for the killer to the point where they can’t afford to repeatedly snuff it because they give up too much pressure doing so.

    I’d say over half the time, if CoH ends up being a net-negative for survivors in terms of healing efficiency because it got snuffed before they got back their time investment from it, it’s because the survivors misplayed, or the killer is snuffing when it’s not worth it for them to do so, at which point it’s good for survivors anyway because that’s just more time on gens.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,543

    Yes, but that's half of the problem with having CoH be far out of the way. The other half is that it slows down the one thing it is supposed to do: Expedite healing. If a survivor has to run halfway across the map to get to CoH and heal up, and then back again, that's going to take so much additional time that the killer doesn't need to snuff it out. CoH can lose its benefit if it is too far away.

    Especially in a coordinated team, one person can bring Botany to pull off the same value, without the 14 second set-up time, reliance on totems, and risk of getting snuffed.

    Just from my experience of using the perk, seeing it being used, and having it used against me, I really don't see this perk pull that much weight in the vast majority of matches.