Dead Hard - What are your problems with it?
Heyo, I wanted to make a thread on this topic because after the Eruption fiasco the Dead Hard discourse has already begun to flare up again.
As somebody who's not really cared too much for new DH since it's rework, I wanted to try to come to an understanding about what issues people have with the new version and what bothers them the most about it.
For me personally - The only issues I've encountered with new DH while playing Killer are:
- Sometimes playing pallets is a lose/lose if the survivor has good timing
- The 'wait game' has only gotten worse compared to how it was pre-rework. I still think New DH is weaker than old DH but the fact that the perk is still pretty rewarding when it goes off leads to a lot of waiting.
- This also means that even if a survivor doesn't have it, they can pretend like they do to waste a bit more of the Killers time in chase. If you play survivor but don't use DH, try it - do the thing where you turn toward the killer when they are within lunge range and see how many times they actually wait.
That's it for me, what are your problems?
Comments
-
The only problem we have is the sheer amount of times we see it. Every game there's almost always 2+.
6 -
I can't disagree, in basically all of my games there is always at least 1 person running it.
But is that because DH is insanely powerful or is it because the perk is just fun to use and rewarding? I genuinely don't know.
This is how the whole "Maybe Windows needs a nerf" discussion started as well - the sheer frequency of the perk.
0 -
The only real problem with Dead Hard is the partial lose/lose at pallets, everything else is a personal preference thing exacerbated by it being a popular perk.
I'd like to see the whole pallet game addressed, though, it is pretty obnoxious and hard to deal with as killer.
9 -
It's annoying that's my problem with it, it isn't dreadfully overpowered or anything but it's still extremely annoying. I see it basically every game now, usually 3 survivors are running it. My problem with dead hard lies with it just being bad game design, I'm just gonna steal a comment I saw on YouTube to describe it "imagine playing call of duty and you have to wait 9 seconds before shooting your opponent" like I know dead by daylight isn't an fps game but I think the complaint is still pretty valid.
Survivors can make a lot of mistakes in a chase and still win because they used dead hard at the right time, that's annoying man, imagine having a chase extended by 30 more seconds because they pressed a button. You can do everything perfect in a chase, but if you don't stare at the survivors butt for 9 seconds and wait out deadhard you'll either lose it or the chase will be extended for a much longer amount of time. Just gonna throw in an example here, imagine facing a very annoying survivor, y'know teabagging and clicking stuff like that, you chase them and you get them down one health state, you're excited because you want to stick it to this jerk, and when you swing, they deadhard, all of your progress is done and you didn't get to stick it to that jerk and now you just look like an idiot. So now you gotta carry your shameful butt to another survivor and hope to God they don't have deadhard either.
It's just annoying, there isn't really much to add to my statement. Annoying perk that perpetuates bad game design. I don't think a perk like deadhard can be balanced without being flat out removed from the game all together. Btw I know some survivors are really bad at using dead hard, I've seen survivors do some really brain dead plays with it but that doesn't change the fact that a good survivor, even an average survivor can get a lot of use out of it.
Post edited by Wexton on7 -
It's a valid complaint for sure, you said it yourself that it's not OP or anything in your opinion but it's still annoying. I can respect that POV
Although I feel like the annoyance factor of DH is amplified by the fact that it's a perk that turns a killer's correct play into a mistake. To use your Call of Duty example, it's sort of like martyrdom from original COD4. Yeah you successfully killed that dude but because he had a perk you're punished for it unless you anticipate it like people do with DH.
Sprint Burst has an identical issue, where you basically need to catch survivors 3 times for a down (Initial sprint burst, hit 1 and hit 2) but SB doesn't turn a correct play into a misplay.
6 -
its not like im gonna use poised or something, ofc im gonna use perks that dont suck.
0 -
To be fair, it is both strong and fun to pull off. Yes it can inflate egos, but it does feel satisfying pulling off something borderline stupid and saving a match because you could parry a hit (which begs the question of why so many auto dh exist).
1 -
-Very obnoxious at pallets. It's not as bad at windows because if the survivor DHs into the window and you don't swing then they're dead 100%.
-Gets value just by existing even if the survivor doesn't have it/leads to a lot of waiting even in a deadzone. Old DH usually couldn't save you in a deadzone, new DH can. I don't even use DH anymore and I can still waste a ton of time as survivor baiting killers into thinking I have it and/or possibly even making it to a pallet in the process.
-When used against certain special attacks, can be uncounterable (eg. Knight's guards, or any other attack that takes long enough/is restricted enough that it can be reacted to making it unavoidable).
6 -
Having to constantly wait as the killer to swing at the survivor is the most unfun mechanic in the entire game
On a personal level, I used to have fun playing Huntress, Trickster, and Demogorgon, even on console, but now they're basically unplayable because of how prolific dead hard is
8 -
Well yeah, people gravitate towards their preferred playstyle and/or the meta perks because they net the best results
This thread isn't criticising people for using DH, it's a discussion to figure out what people's core issues with the perk are because as someone who's played mostly killer lately I'm not as annoyed by it as a lot of others are.
Like people comparing it to Eruption, I get the comparison but I also don't fully agree with it
0 -
Dead Hard is unnecessarily oppressive against certain killers, where the survivors can use dead hard on reaction to these killers powers. There are also survivors that can reliably dead hard on reaction on killer lunges.
The worst part is many people refuse to acknowledge that it’s valid to complain about the NEW parts of new dead hard. We have so many people say “killers shouldn’t complain about new dead hard because you can’t dead hard for distance anymore, and that is what killers said was the biggest problem”. How does that even make sense? Do these people really think killers should have predicted the future, and before new dead hard was announced, they should have complained about endurance and speed boosts?
9 -
Worth mentioning though DH does basically nothing against a Deathslinger who's good with their power, not only can the killer always force a deep wound but you can't DH when you're speared. There's at least some ranged killers who can deal with it
There are valid complaints about it, for sure.
I made this very thread to hear those kinda complaints since my personal perspective is that I'm not really bothered by the perk all that much.
I see it a lot, on pretty decent survivors too but I typically don't feel robbed like I did before with old DH.
0 -
It’s not worth mentioning that new dead hard does nothing against deathslinger. And people should only mention that, if they are also willing to mention the specific killers where new dead hard is more oppressive than old dead hard.
Why aren’t you mentioning Trickster, where his knives harmlessly passed through old dead hard and old dead hard barely did anything to him, but new dead hard resets the knife count back down to 0, and gives survivors a speed boost?
New Dead hard tells specific killers that they should stop using their powers, and that is terrible.
5 -
Main issue is it has no down side like other exhaustion perks.
Sprint Burst you have to walk to save it. Balanced needs a drop and Lithe needs a vault point.
Only downside to DH is when you use it but you get "exhausted on ground" which is more a server/ping issue than the perk itself.
4 -
Having to run up a survivors ass and wait out a dead hard that they might not even have is the dumbest mechanic in the game. Perk needs a complete rework at this point.
5 -
???
The person I was replying to mentioned Trickster already
2 -
What was the point of mentioning deathslinger? Do you think it helps trickster players, when you mention that deathslinger is cool with dead hard? Do you think at helps trickster players when you say you personally don't feel like dead hard robs you?
0 -
What's your problem I wasn't even talking to you
The person was talking about ranged killers getting hard countered by DH and I said hey at least deathslinger can deal with it
0 -
And that was completely unrelated information that was completely unhelpful. If someone is having issues with characters like Trickster, telling them "well, deathslinger is cool with dead hard" doesn't help them at all.
Dead hard is unnecessarily oppressive against certain killers, and reminding people that some killers are ok with new dead hard, doesn't help anyone at all, and doesn't solve the issue that dead hard is unnecessarily oppressive against certain killers.
1 -
New DH has pretty much all the same major problems that old DH did, minus Dead Hard for distance.
It's disproportionately stronger against killers that are already weak and struggle to get downs, while stronger killers don't care about needing to get a third hit since it takes them very little time.
I would suggest giving DH's post-hit speed burst a short Hindered effect, like when Nemesis hits you with his tentacle. This would help make the perk less difficult to deal with, since it wouldn't give the survivor as much distance.
6 -
Cool. Didn't ask for your input because I wasn't talking to you to begin with
Stop getting mad on others behalf, @Veinslay can speak for themselves
8 -
I think the game should show the killer who has dh while injured so you know to bait it out and then when survivors don't have it you can just lunge normally.
0 -
That's an interesting suggestion honestly, but I wonder how you would do that
Would it be some kind of visual on the survivor or would it be something on the HUD?
0 -
Yeah many players can reliably dh the slow attacks (lunge), but the quick attack is just not reactable even if you have godlike ping and the dh mini game that most people complain about start when they are close to the survivor. It is a gamble situation for both sides, whether people want to admit it or not and it is annoying because a survivor wastes a few seconds from the killer, but there is no way for a player to react on a point-blank attack. More than ever the new dh is relient on ping, now that you cant use it for distance . Also lot of killer players have adjusted to the pallet and vaults and most of the times can bait dead hard.
New dh can be used for distance against Deathslingers.The small dash can be enough to avoid the hook in some situations. The new dh is objectively worse than the old dh and i hope no one disagrees with this. What the new one lacks is consistency. At least old one had i-frames and if u did it for distance it was 100% consistent.
4 -
I don't mind Dead Hard in its current state. Maybe that there's nothing the killer can do if the survivor uses it at a pallet, but hey, that's the play. And the waiting game is stupid, but I don't see a way to change that.
It's funny, because Dead Hard used to make me pull my hair out and now, for the most part, I just find myself going "nice, good play" when I get Dead Harded. Mostly I find that once I've identified the perk on a survivor, I can no-sell it for the rest of the match, which was assuredly not the case with old Dead Hard.
2 -
That still doesn’t address the fact that new dead hard is more oppressive than old dead hard against certain killers. By telling people the counterplay is a quick m1 attack, you just told trickster players they should stop using their power, and use their slow walking speed to walk into point blank range of a survivor. How is that fair? Do you think “stop using your power” is a fair counterplay?
1 -
I have 3 main problems with dead hard.
Every other exhaustion perk in the game has a downside to its usage. Dead hard does not, or at least, the downside of it is extremely extremely situational. Let's look at all of them and their down sides.
- Adrenaline - The main downside of adrenaline is that it only activates at most once per game. Additionally, it is mostly used for the heal rather than the actual sprint burst. But regardless, once a game, pretty balanced overall.
- Balanced Landing - The drawback here is that this one is highly map situational. There are only a handful of maps where it is heavily reliable, and outside of those, each map has maybe 1 or 2 places you can actually use it. This is actually one of the "better" perks when it comes to not accidentally using it, or getting good value from it, but it is not able to be used everywhere.
- Head On - You have to sit in a locker to charge this one up in order to stun the killer, meaning it can't really be used in chase outside of a some really niche builds that probably only work once in a match before the killer catches on to your game.
- Lithe - People like to think this one is super easy and has no downside, but you can't NOT activate it during a fast vault. If you are getting chased, and you need to vault something, you are probably going to be forced to use it, because you don't have time to slow vault. This means you can't loop around a structure multiple times, and then just before you get hit, lithe away to a new structure. You are forced to use it early. It is probably the least efficient exhaustion perk because of this.
- Overcome - This one only works when you are healthy and not when you are injured. Additionally it is countered by insta-downs. Meaning you won't always get value out of this one unless you come with lots of healing.
- Smash Hit - This requires a pallet stun, which is often easier said than done. Additionally, stunning the killer with a pallet is often a chase ender anyway, unless they are nurse or something. So what this does is just end the chase harder.
- Sprint Burst - Similar to lithe, you are basically "forced" to use this if you want to run somewhere, unless you do the work to "99" it. Which means you had to already have used it once, and then hold it. And also while you are holding it, you can't stop running, because if you do, you will no longer be "99" it. Basically, like lithe, it is one of the better exhaustion perks, but is hard to use efficiently without other perks. Meaning you can sometimes be caught in situations where you don't have it, and you want it, or where you don't want it, but you have it.
Then we come to dead hard. What is the downside? In theory it is that you have to be injured. But, that is a natural thing that will happen during the course of the chase. The downside is just that, non-existent. You are going to be injured during a chase, and could get full value from the dead hard. Or, if you aren't injured, you didn't need the dead hard, so it doesn't matter if you got value.
Now, like overcome instadowns can counter it, but instadowns are not reliable. Exposed perks are so heavily undertuned outside of maybe devour (which is unreliable) that you can't really use them, meaning only some killers can get value. Additionally though, if the killer is an insta down killer, and you are injured, you can still use it to get value, unlike overcome which just won't work in those situations.
The other counter to dead hard is that the survivor is in deep wounds state. This is actually one of the reasons i have taken to playing legion lately, because i'm just tired of dealing with dead hard. It is also the reason i think so many survivors hate legion and deathslinger because they hard counter dead hard.
However, more importantly, dead hard is the reason are hard tunnel. If i seem someone unhooking someone, i wil immediately hit the unhooked person right off the hook, then tunnel them. why? Because after i hit them, they are in deep wounds. Meaning they can't dead hard, off the record is not a factor and the only thing i need to worry about is decisive strike, which most survivors don't run anymore. I bet if dead hard weren't in the game, you'd see a lot less tunneling happen in many cases. Because the best counter to dead hard, is just to tunnel the person off the hook.
Additionally, dead hard often hurts the killers who need the most help, and doesn't really affect the ones who don't. How often do you think a God nurse cares about dead hard? Or a blight that hug techs in their sleep? Now how about a trickster? Or Demogorgon? It is night and day how much this hurts the low tier killer vs the top tier killers who really don't care. Yeah, maybe it "counters" nurse, so what, she blinks after her fatigue and hits you a 3rd time 6 seconds later anyway and it didn't really do much.
Lastly, the thing i hate about dead hard is it creates a stupid gameplay loop, where the killer gets within range to hit someone, but then doesn't. It creates this stupid little dance where the killer trys to "wait out" the dead hard, but then the survivor knows they are waiting, but then the killer knows they are waiting so maybe they wait longer, etc. etc. If the killer gets in range of a survivor, they should just be able to hit them. They shouldn't do this stupid little dance. The worst part is, like old decisive strike, you have to assume that every single survivor has it, until they show you that they don't, otherwise you risk wasting a huge amount of time, because the upside of current dead hard is actually stronger than old dead hard, it is just harder to use.
TLDR:
- Dead hard has the least downsides of any exhaustion perk, as in almost none. Meaning it is always available outside of a few rare scenarios.
- Dead hards "counter" is to hard tunnel someone, hit them, get them in deep wounds, then keep tunneling them, creating unhealthy gameplay.
- It creates this stupid "dance" where killers are in range to hit a survivor but don't because they might have dead hard and the "just wait it out bro" meme takes hold.
- Killers have to assume every survivor has it, until they show that they don't, meaning even if you don't equip dead hard, it still gives you value.
- It counters low tier killers harder than high tier killers.
9 -
I don't play that much Trickster, so perhaps there's something I'm missing, but what exactly is stopping a Trickster player from holding the last knife until after the DH, or from throwing a knife intentionally to the side to force a survivor into reacting even though the knife misses them?
Like I said, I don't play Trickster much, but those would be my instincts when I know a survivor has Dead Hard. As with most killers, the counterplay is to bait it out - or to just circumvent it, but outside of perks that doesn't apply to Trickster.
2 -
For me, the lose/lose situation at/near most pallets with Dead Hard kinda breaks the contest of the activity and ruins the fun, especially while playing M1 killers.
0 -
Trickster's knives have travel time, and survivors can notice if his character starts facing a different direction. And this is only an example involving trickster. Huntress has a similar issue, and she can't rapid fire hatchets, so it's even more noticable if she turns to try to fake a hatchet the wrong way. This also doesn't help killers like Pyramid Head, whose power is so heavily telegraphed, that a survivor can dead hard it on reaction, even if it's at point blank range. And that's not even the full list.
The problem with dead hard has always been scenarios where the survivor doesn't have to predict an attack. With old dead hard, "dead hard for distance" was a scenario where it didn't need to be used predictively, but that didn't mean "dead hard for distance" was the only problem people could ever have with dead hard. People using dead hard on reaction to lunges, or certain killer powers, is the same type of problem as "dead hard for distance" used to be, where there's no prediction or mind games, and instead the survivor is just either using the perk proactively or reactively.
1 -
I'm not saying facing a different direction, I'm talking about aiming very slightly to the left so the knife just barely misses them. Or like I said, just hold the last knife for an extra second, I'm willing to bet most survivors would preemptively hit E at least the first time. Or just keep throwing, I know Trickster can chew through Endurance if he's got enough knives or has his Main Event up. Or bring addons and perks that deal with Exhaustion perks... I dunno, maybe I'm missing something, but it sure sounds like he has a lot of options to deal with Dead Hard and other sources of Endurance.
There are definitely killers who are more likely to hit into Dead Hard, but for the most part, it's killers for whom that isn't damaging. Blight and Nurse don't give half a damn, for instance, and even Huntress can ready up another hit super quickly, as well as being able to partially bait it out with camera flicks and such. They all, too, have addons and perks to handle it, though I will say that shouldn't be the default expectation. All killers should have some basekit way of adapting to DH, and outside of Twins (poor things), I am pretty sure most killers do.
0 -
The knives move extremely slow. Not slow enough to react, and then move out of the way physically with travel time and animation and reaction. But certainly slow enough to determine if it will hit you, then press "e'.
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
The biggest problem is MMR. It doesn't matter if half the playerbase can be tricked by a projectile flick, MMR will still try to match me with the people that are really good at using dead hard, and those games feel miserable regardless if I win or lose.
And the speed boost makes it so that Huntress can't just ready up another hit super quickly. Her hatchet tap creates a really slow projectile, and the speed boost moves the survivor so far away that it's difficult to land a fully charged hatchet if the survivor starts wiggle dancing to try to dodge the hatchet.
And killers like Nurse absolutely do care, especially now that her range and recharge addons got buried. She still needs to go into fatigue, then slowly recharge tokens, then has to start chasing a survivor that is far away because of their speed boost. And her new chase music is so loud and miserable that survivors go instantly silent is they break line of sight, which they can often do because of the speed boost.
All this could have been fixed if survivors didn't get a speed boost. Allowing survivors to tank a hit should have been good enough. BHVR really didn't need to attach a speed boost to it. If there wasn't a speed boost, then yes, maybe huntress and trickster could better handle dead hard, but BHVR decided to combine two perks into one. Remember that the speed boost didn't exist with old dead hard. Survivors would just tank a hit, then be a bit farther forward than they were before. The new speed boost creates problems for killers, that didn't exist with old dead hard, and it should be valid to complain about it, even though it's not the same problem people had with old dead hard.
1 -
Enough with the whining about DH, it got nerfed, get over it.
1 -
If your plan of action is to M1 then most pallets are very safe and you have to break them. For the few that aren't safe and you can actually play around you will have to perform a telegraphed lunge which will hit DH. DH pretty much removes the ability to play these few pallets if you are going for the safest outcome. If you try and perform mind games at pallets you have no business successfully getting a hit at (survivor error) you will often still find yourself required to lunge, which again, results in hitting DH. The safest outcome is, once again, just to break the pallet.
You could play around these scenarios knowing DH is in the play, but if you're going to be optimal you're 100% better just removing the resource and removing the interaction instead of hoping the survivor messes up. People often say that the "wait out mind game" is interactive but the same people are ignoring these predictable and noninteractive outcomes at the few pallets that you can actually play.
As someone who loathes DH because of how much it actually limits the killer's interactions with the survivor the only time I like the perk is when a survivor flies in and takes a protection hit with it. I'd personally love to see this aspect of the perk become its focus if possible.
0 -
My only problem with it is that just like the boons, DH can be used over and over. Second chance perks shouldn't work this way, especially with generator defense perks continuing to be nerfed. DH should be redesigned to be a limited or one time use perk. Like many others have mentioned, it all but guarantees safety at a pallet. Either the killer swings and hits the DH, or the survivor can turn around and drop the pallet afterwards.
Either way, this new meta still hasn't differentiated enough from the old meta, and more needs to change.
1 -
Yes there is a huge downside to dead hard. It is called consistency, or rather inconsistency. Most of these perks you describe share this. They are consistent..They will work 100% of the time when you need them.. E.g you are working on a gen on the first floor, or on a hill. You drop when the killer is close and balanced landing works 100%. You are working on a gen in a deadzone and you sprinburst to safety. Works 100%. You vault a window or a pallet with lithe. Works 100%. There are so many times that i was in a dead zone working on a gen and vaulted a TL wall or a stupid U wall and manage to reach a good tile before the killer caught up on me. It doesnt matter if you have to use them preemptively. By using them that way you can go to a safer area or even a great area with chained tiles. There are so many times that i've watched streamers with thousands of hours saying that they pressed E and they were dead on the ground. In addition to that, do not forget that the distance that a survivor can make when hit from the killer was nerfed way back. Im not saying that dh is not strong, but i point the downsides that u couldnt find.
The other thing that you say about tunneling the dead hard players as a strategy. Im not sure about the situation you describe. Maybe you are talking about when immediately another survivor farms them which i guess ok(?)..or you are implying that except from tunneling you are camping them too. There is no way you are in a chase far away from the hook and you have enough time to return back and the hooked survivor didnt have enough time to get at least healed inder the hook. If you play this way though, against goos survivors this is an easy gen rush.
0 -
The biggest problem with Dead Hard is that it gives you a third health state.
DH would be fine for example if it penalized you for healing and encouraged you to play hurt the rest of the game after you had become injured. But then most people who are using it now would turn their nose because that's exactly what they want. A third health state lets you have a 60-90 second chase vs some killers instead of a 40-60 second chase.
What kind of Nerf should DH get? Make all healing actions take twice as long (except for mending which will now take 50% longer). Prevent any kind of funky math with sloppy or any addons so you get some benefit for stacking but not crazy amounts.
The easiest way and most fair way to nerf DH would be to make it give you the "broken" state for the rest of the game as soon as you use it. This would make it make perfect sense to use AND have synergy with the perk no mither.
The best counter to Dead Hard is hard tunneling+ STBFL. If I know someone has DH then I always hit them immediately as they get off the hook to take it away from them. If you time this perfectly because you were proxy camping there is no counter to this action. This sucks as an idea because the best counter to one of the strongest perks requires you to proxy/face camp AND hard tunnel them.
STBFL is one of the best perks in the game right now at high MMR because so many people use DH. You can punch one person three times rapidly; not only will you not care you will benefit from punching them three times. Granted if you are using this perk on a killer who can't maintain stacks then that is a problem.
2 -
Like it would be fine if I saw it once a match but everyone and their mother runs it.
0 -
Idk half the killer powers in the game include “waiting it out.” Like wait out demos shred, take the window or get hit, or dont, and still get hit. Like huntress, nemesis, deathslinger, ph, blight, and probably other killers. Same premise as dh. It is bad game design. Punishes people for playing well. I dont have a problem going against those killers.. or deadhard. But i do agree that Dh should be reworked.
0 -
There are two things I hate about Dead Hard:
- The lose-lose situations on pallets., not to mention the survivor is rewarded with the same distance as any hit, meaning they get more distance they before and don't need to drop the pallet.
- The fact that DH exists mean you have to wait and waste a few seconds before every downing hit until the perk is used or you can confirm the survivor you're chasing doesnt'have it. Some skilled survivors can wait for a LONG time before using Dead Hard, and that can be enough for the others to finish a gen before you can proc perks like Jolt or Pain Resonance (Eruption too... but let's be honest, nobody is going to use it anymore). On a game where every second counts and playing killer can feel quite rushed sometimes, this is annoying as hell.
0 -
My problem with it is that it's just not fun. Sure it's still probably the strongest survivor perk in the game, but its strength isn't really my issue, nor is it the occasional lose/lose when someone makes a pallet from it. My problem is that it predominantly punishes M1 killers (who are already generally weak) and also forces me to waste my time waiting around to swing when in any other case I could just down the person.
The amount of times lately I've waited almost 5 seconds to swing right behind someone just for them to Dead Hard on the third juke when I finally M1 them also has me questioning how many players I face that really could be cheating that I just never noticed before. It blurs the lines between cheaters and legitimate players when I'm sitting there wondering "Did they just get THAT lucky or is something a little fishy here?"
2 -
It's just a bit annoying to play around constantly. To me they should gut it due to the sheer longevity of it's strength over the duration of this games life span.
0 -
My main complaint about DH, aside from it feeling annoying to play against, is that it creates the same problem as Eruption currently does on the survivor side. I'm not comparing the strength of the perks, only that they both "infect" the game simply by being in the game, regardless of whether they are actually equipped:
You have to assume they're in play until you know they're not.
This means sniffing survivors' butts to bait it out in case they might have it. The same way you have to "play around Eruption" until you know the killer doesn't have it.
The fact that both of these perks force boring and silly counterplay in anticipation of them possibly being in play is really unfun and gets old quickly.
0 -
Perk single-handedly changes the entire way you play the game regardless of if they even have it or not.
3 -
And with certain killers, it's way more than a few seconds. There are a lot of times, where I can hit someone with a fully charged Huntress hatchet at a distance, and it would take me way longer than a few seconds to use my slow killer walking speed to get into point blank range, so I could do a quick m1 attack instead.
2 -
As any killer with a decent power, it's w/e for deadhard. For the M1 killers it's painful to see. M1 killers already have an uphill battle sometimes and having to hit a survivor 3 times can take way too much time. You have to fake deadhard on all survivors at least once per match just to see if they have deadhard which is stacking on more time in chase. Even once you know who has deadhard you have to keep faking until they use it and either take a swing at DH or let them run to a safe loop.
M1 killers are the ones who really struggle with deadhard.
0 -
Mainly the fact that it's a lose/lose scenario at certain pallets and windows.
1 -
I'm pretty much neutral about it. It's not fun for Killers but there are things that Killers can do that are far more fun than DH (eg cross map shots on Artist and Huntress) but probably aren't that much fun to the survivor who gets dropped out of the blue. If everything that was fun for one side but annoying for the other got blocked there wouldn't be a game.
The true test, in my opinion, is if DH users survive significantly more than people using SB and Lithe. If DH users do then DH needs a nerf. If they don't then it's annoying to watch DH be used at a pallet but you wouldn't have gotten to the pallet that quickly anyway if SB or Lithe were used so I keep that in mind.
0
