Stop lobby dodging

Kagrenac said:

Why is it whenever 2 or more survivors run med-kits, keys, maps, or tool-boxes killers leave?

Do you guys expect me not to use an item that helps me? It's like lobby dodging killers because they're using a good addon.

I get flash-lights to a degree...but Lightborn exists for a reason.

How about no. Lobby dodging keys especially is completely understandable and I'm sure you agree it's better than disconnecting mid-match.

Lobby dodging over a survivor's item is so childish. Why should I have to follow your imaginary Dead by Daylight rules just so I can play survivors? Why shouldn't I, the survivor, use items? It's almost like survivors are trying to survive and not gonna make themselves an easy target.

This also applies to survivors, survivors who DC over the killer's add-ons and offerings is also childish. Seriously, y'all need to grow up and understand that not every game is gonna be an easy one.

My personal experience, the question is not about dodging but, to Bubba or not to Bubba?

@Kagrenac said:
Why is it whenever 2 or more survivors run med-kits, keys, maps, or tool-boxes killers leave?

i m fine with 2 toolbox and med-kit however key are kind of f up
and if all of you are using item i will guess your guys are tryhard swf

when sed servers hit, y'all gonna be crying so hard and I am gonna laugh my ASS off

MhhBurgers said:

@SIlentCetra said:
when sed servers hit, y'all gonna be crying so hard and I am gonna laugh my ASS off

Until you realize that killers can still just dodge and DC just the way they used to, the only difference is SWF teams won't have to reinvite again.

It's hilarious that in your minds, it's a cardinal sin for a surv to DC but perfectly okay for a killer to do it.

That's okay, with ded servs usually comes disconnect penalties in games like these. We'll see how much you dodge when you can get banned for it

@SIlentCetra said:
Did you not read my quoted post?

I tired to understand your point since you mentioned "banned for lobby dodging" in the end, while talking about disconnects at first. This made it look like you think Lobby Dodging should actually be bannable, just like disconnecting during the trial.

I should've realized that it was sarcasm as no one would come up with such a ridiculous thing and be honest about it.

TheBean said:

@MhhBurgers said:
They can't even crack down on current DCers and you think they'll crack down on lobbydodgers, that's cute. The game has a relatively small playerbase, a BIG part of this playerbase is either dodging or DCing, the devs know full well that they'd kill their game in the same way as removing SWF would kill it.

I think with dedicated servers they can "crack" down more on certain things. One being the dodging, for the simple fact the devs will have control on the pings for the lobby. This throws out one of the biggest reasons for allowing killers to dodge the lobbies currently.

Allowing them to see the type of survivor character... items and so on... that might stay until the Devs need to draw a line in the sand.

The big test will be once the new MM comes into play and killers will have an even harder time seeing who SWFs are.

He is what I predict will happen... When the dedicated servers come into play...

Killers will join a lobby just like survivors... They can come and go from the lobby as they please, like a survivor does now.
Killers will only see the character and the items they are carrying. No more profiles. No more being able to see who is friends with who. This will happen to prevent dodging based on SWFs.

Then the devs will see how the lobby dodging goes for killers... If they keep bailing out of a lobby because of the items they see.. or the characters they see.. then killers will stop seeing those.

The only thing killers need to see so they can choose their load out is the items.. and maybe who the characters are... but nothing more. I don't think dodging will be an issue at this point. Once you remove the ability for killers to tell who is SWF or not, that will stop a big part of the dodging.

Those that don't like it, either will adapt, or stop playing. They can stop playing.. since once dedicated servers come out.. There is going to be an explosion in the playerbase, and all those whiners can get lost or grow up and get better.

This is all just my opinion though.

FINALLY someone who sees sense. This is EXACTLY what will happen. And I can't wait

The idea of getting away with forcing killers to play against groups they don't want to is foolish at best.

Too many people would rather stomp killers instead of seeing the game balanced.

Kagrenac said:

@Orion said:
You're not going to convince dodgers not to dodge. That's simply not possible. The best you can hope for is that the devs fix the reasons why they dodge. Personally, I don't bring in items and rarely use offerings, but thanks to my teammates, I still get dodged.

There are so many ways to help make items less usable. Nurse's, Coulrophobia, Overwhelming, Franklin's, Lightborn, Ruin, NOED to help with people who Gen-rush...I don't understand.

Oh ######### I didn’t know we could run 7 perks!

Kagrenac said:

@Orion said:

@Kagrenac said:

@Orion said:
You're not going to convince dodgers not to dodge. That's simply not possible. The best you can hope for is that the devs fix the reasons why they dodge. Personally, I don't bring in items and rarely use offerings, but thanks to my teammates, I still get dodged.

There are so many ways to help make items less usable. Nurse's, Coulrophobia, Overwhelming, Franklin's, Lightborn, Ruin, NOED to help with people who Gen-rush...I don't understand.

Six out of the seven perks you mentioned are teachables from six different killers, four of whom are from paid DLCs. The seventh can be disabled before it ever activates. Also, killers, like survivors, only have four perk slots. They can't afford to run every single perk just to counter items. Dodging is easier, so they go with that instead.

It's really simple. Look at the items they have; pick a perk or two to counter them.

You can't complain about someone not having perks when the SOS exists and if the killer doesn't want to level up others; that's their problem. Not the survivors.

And if you get dodged, that’s your problem, not the killers. Sorry killer is hard enough. If there are 2+ toolboxes in my lobby, I’m out. The gen rush is bad enough without them. 

@SIlentCetra said:
That's okay, with ded servs usually comes disconnect penalties in games like these. We'll see how much you dodge when you can get banned for it

Ummmm....have you ever even watched a dev stream? They want both killers and survivors to dodge lobbies for whatever reason they want. It is encouraged! They won’t be banning anyone for dodging lobbies, but they do want to know why people dodge. They do however ban for DCing after the lobby counter has reached 0, and switched to the offerings pages.

@TheBean this goes for your comments as well.

TheBean said:

@Rebel_Raven said:
Pretty sure the Devs said dodging is ok.

True... but... However, I believe there is a limit to what can be considered ok.

Maybe we should be asking BHVR a couple simple questions...

"Does BHVR condone killer players dodging a lobby when that player determines, specifically, that there is a SWF group in the lobby?"

"What information does the Developer actually believe the Killers should use, when determining, if they want to accept the lobby?"

Rather then trying to debate little issues of if something might happen or not... Maybe we need to nail down what the developers actually want Killers to see when determining if they accept the match or not.

Is there a Dev out there that wants to clear this up?

No, I do not agree at all.

If SWF, somehow, could not use mid trial communication, then we might have far less dodging. Sadly that genie is out of the bottle.

We need to nail down why people dodge.
The root of it all is that the game isn't fair to killers. It just isn't.
It doesn't matter how often it gets bad, and that changes from person to person as perk unlocking actually varies from killer to killer.
It's like randomly loading several revolvers, handing them to several people, and telling them to play solo Russian roulette. Maybe being nice enough to let them pick what bullets they get to use.
Some will be luckier than others.
It can happen, and it probably shouldn't. 

Yes, I know certain situations make it hard for survivors, like purple addons, and moris, but those are supposed to be rare. If people have a lot, it's because they do not use them normally. 
Ever play an RPG and say "I'm going to need that health potion later. I won't use it now" and yet you beat the game never using it? 
It's sort of like that, but killers are needing those potions in the form of "op" loadouts thanks to the unpredicted consequences of SWF.
Hell, I don't have a killer I like playing with an ebony, or ivory.

If I see 4 toolboxes, or 4 flashlights, the general advice would be one of 4 things.
Run Franklin's. But I don't have that perk. Like at all.
Run lightborn. I only have that on one killer I don't like using. That is out.
Play them anyhow. A crazy idea. No.
Dodge. Ok.
Some would say it's not their problem, but the ripple effects say otherwise.

Will the devs know that there's people looking to obviously bully me, or gen rush me when I dodge and they start handing out punishment?
Not likely. 
Considering how often this happens, plus SWFs (I don't out pace rank reset since I don't play as much as I used to), I will be dodging a bit more than most. 

The idea, on my end, is to do better with match making.
The rituals sort of have a system going. I don't get asked to do anything with Myers, Freddy, or Bubba because I don't have them bought. 
It knows which of my killers have a mori (cypress. Lolz) when it asks for killing by my own hand.
It adjusts to what I have in terms of challenges. 
If matchmaking could do the same, we would have less dodging because the killer can be confident they won't be completely buttfucked by the system. 
That means less bullying all around, but that's not why people play, is it?

TheBean said:

@Rebel_Raven said:
We need to nail down why people dodge.

Well this is what we agree on, and that is why we should be asking the right questions to BHVR.

Will the devs know that there's people looking to obviously bully me, or gen rush me when I dodge and they start handing out punishment?
Not likely. 

Correct!... Not likely. There is no way for BHVR to know the true reason why you would dodge a lobby.

So with that said. Do the developers believe, if the killer determines that a SWF group is in their lobby, that this and ONLY this is valid reason to dodge?

If the answer is NO. Then if removing the profile lookup and names from the lobby fixes this, do you think the Devs might do this when dedicated servers come out?

So right now... Lets separate what we are considering reasons.

Dodging for SWF in lobby...
Dodging for certain items in the lobby...
Dodging for bad ping in the lobby...
Dodging for certain characters in the lobby...
Dodging for certain players in the lobby... (i.e. certain streamers)
Then dodging for anything else... (Whatever other reason no listed above)

I'm only talking about 2 major issues that I see when dodging...

Dodging for certain players... i.e... seeing a certain streamer player you don't like playing against.
Dodging for SWF... If the only reason for dodging is SWF.

The other ones I feel are valid.. And what is probably referred to when the Devs say it is ok. (my assumption)

Nailing down what the Devs want the killers to use as valid information for dodging a lobby is important if the discussion is to continue.

The thing is, it seems like you're wanting to prevent dodging by removing the clues killers have, which will force them into matches they are not likely to enjoy, or leave the game.
Again, that won't be a good thing. Killers will leave the game over non stop bully matches, and the game will die.
Survivors will know what they will be walking into as a killer, and wouldn't touch killer, if they ever would.
We see that kinda nowish. Some survivors cross over to the killer side, and experience the bullshit in person. 

No, SWF isn't the only reason people dodge, but I can only really speak for myself.
There's a laundry list of why people dodge, and that list will only get stronger as the game offers less clues.
A variety of items don't bother me. Don't care about immersed Claudette, or much of anything. It's in the game, I consider it fair. Mid trial chat isn't in the game, so I'm gunna avoid that. The main culprit is SWF.
Hell, I wouldn't be too bothered by items if I knew it was 4 solos. I'd take that chance. 
But I know there are people who would dodge that. 

I'm pretty sure we both know the main, and minor reasons people dodge. 

I can see why people would dodge streamers. People may not like being publicly humiliated, or deal with "streamer privilege.

Peasant said:

There's no point in dodging lobbies. Here's why:

By dodging lobbies until you get one you like or feel comfortable in you are making ranking up too easy. Since ranking up is now too easy (as if it wasn't easy enough) you will quickly reach a high rank with a long wait. This long wait will make dodging lobbies less worthwhile as you will start spending more time in the lobbies than in the actual game.

Whereas I, who haven't dodged, will have good games, and bad games and more bloodpoints than you who chose to dodge. Furthermore, I will eventually get to a rank I belong at and you will simply get so high in rank that dodging becomes meaningless as all games will now be against spooky swfs.

Besides, you can make good banter post game.

Ex: Earlier today I started a lobby and waited for my survivor opponents. When they all joined I saw not one, not two, but three flashlights. I glanced at my perks and found that out of the three flashlight counters I only had Lightborn (and it was tier I.) So I just said to hell with it and had a mediocre game. I didn't get a single kill. Later in the post game chat I told them I had no real good counters to what they were running and just said "The game was rigged from the start."

Was it fun for me? No. Was it fun for them? Probably. Did we all get bloodpoints? Yes. 

So regardless of who the survivors are I say play ball and give it your all!

Except it's entirely possible for a sweaty SWF to have killers make less than 10k BP, so there's absolutely nothing in it for me worth putting up with the headaches.
I can have a far easier, more fun time getting slaughtered by a killer, thanks. It's even less time wasted, too.

I don't play enough to rank up like that, so no danger there, either. 

I just want a solid chance for a relatively fair match in the odd instances I get to play.
Win or lose, if all that was involved is what is in the game, I'm ok. 
That means no mid match communication. 

The SWF is counting on you not having good counters.