http://dbd.game/killswitch
A change to fix Tunneling and Camping ("Killer Main" Perspective)
i feel that tunneling and camping wont go anywhere unless you remove the mechanic and impact of killing survivors and replace the impact with another mechanic. the game would have to change from getting kills to hooks. but i thought of a way taking aspects from competitive dbd to do this. you can make it a hook based point system, here's what i came up with that in mind:
-2 points for 1st hooks
-1 point for every other hook on the same survivor
-.5 point if hooks are back to back on the same survivor
-10 total hook points to end the game (as a placeholder value, would need to be tested)
-gens slowed down if survivor is on hook to make up for survivors not being able to be killed (% decided after testing, [third or more hooks on the same survivor will increase the slow down to 100% but only if the survivor isnt hooked back to back. idea thanks to Piruluk] )
2 points on fresh hooks to reward the killer for chasing everyone. to disincentivise tunneling you reward half a point (.5) instead of 1 point so a killer CAN tunnel but they're less rewarded for doing it so it'd take longer to reach their goal and since there's no death then the survivors can still play and help their team by distracting the killer while getting better at looping with practice since they're getting tunneled. since survivors cant die new survivors wouldn't feel as bad starting out.
but there's a problem, not being able to kill survivors makes it very difficult for killer since you cant massively reduce their productivity. so there would need to be a debuff, maybe if a survivor is currently hooked the gens get slowed down till the survivor is unhooked (at least 30 - 50% or more, something that's impactful enough to make survivors need to unhook their teammate but not broken. idk yet).
possibly if a survivor is hooked back to back times the gen slow down would be lessened each time to again disincentivise tunneling, at least 15% or more each time. maybe if a killer is camping it would also lessen over time (idea thanks to TheWheelOfCheese)
with these factors the bleedout and hook timer would be removed since survivors cant die, thus making camping worthless. unhooking yourself would still be on first hook and maybe if the unhook attempt fails maybe a debuff happens so there's a risk still ( 3 attempts only, slightly additional slower gens maybe until unhooked?). also maybe making it so that killers powers cant be used or deactived within 8 meters of a hook so hook trading isnt as easy (bubba obviously). but once the hook total is reached, all remaining survivors in the trial die. so if any survivor escapes they wont die if the total is reached. of course some perks/add ons would need a rework, maps would needed to be smaller and loop design needs an overhaul since, i feel, it caters to newer survivor players (ex: god pallets/windows).
you could even retcon some of the lore so that these changes make sense like the entity likes an interesting match and going after the "weak" is boring. i would love to hear any suggestions to this idea and will edit my post
Comments
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The idea has some merit but I don't think it would feel very good to play as killer. The only thing you'd see consistently are 0k's, 1k's, and 4k's. I like that the current state of the game has a middle of the road 2k that feels like a tie.
I feel like it would also strongly disincentivize altruism plays in the endgame, as a misplay could result in everyone dying, even those who didn't misplay. Simply being in the trial when someone else goofs shouldn't result in you suddenly dying.
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The devs just need to make some innate reward to spreading out hooks. Some kind of buff for the killer or debuff on the survivors that is awarded based on the amount of hooks put on different survivors. As it stands, the best way to control the speed of the game is to remove a survivor which means you don't want to spread out hooks.
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I feel that system would just make the gameplay feel more stale as it doesn't really lead anywhere.
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true about the end game but if, for example, the killer is at 9 points then unhooking would be foolish. at the same time players sometimes already all go in for the save and lose. those situations when the killer cant stop the last 3 survivors from getting the last unhook would be solved with my supposed change. And if you see your teammate going for it then you can just leave. it defiantly wouldnt feel as good for the killer since they cant get a kill till the game is over but i feel for the betterment of the game it's a sacrifice.
for 2k's being gone i personally dont really like draws in games and for 3k's i mean it's still a "win" so i dont think it'd make a difference. but for 2k's maybe have a time limit and if the time is up it's a draw? idk
Post edited by Cannolinator on0 -
for rewarding of spreading hooks is why i would reward additional points for 1st hooks and full points for hooking different survivors rather then tunneling. for debuff i mentioned slowing gens down by either 30-50%. of course other ideas can be added
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I think killers should be incentivised to not tunnel, instead of being punished for tunnelling
Imagine if there was a basekit feature that meant survivors got punished for doing gens too quickly, the survivor community would be up in arms
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maybe for killer but it defiantly would improve the survivor side and maybe with some extra tweaks on top of what i added it can give killers map pressure since gens would be much slower. now getting 1 down/hook can effect the whole team just like how 1 bad chase can severally crush the killer since 3 other survivors are doing gens. my idea is just to try and help remove camping and tunneling and reward killer for hooks rather than kills
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agree on the both parts part which is why i want to do a point based hook system. rewarding killers half of the points instead of full points and double points for 1st hooks making killer want to chase everyone and removing kills so tunneling is drastically less effective (literally just responded to the other comments, what timing lol).
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A lot of killers don't care for points unfortunately, mainly the ones that tunnel in the first place
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that is true. you physically cant remove tunneling unless ds is basekit and stuns for like 10 seconds. but i want to make it so the killer will throw the game as a punishment. but it does depend since some killers either; want a quick kill, need a kill since the game is about to end or want to ruin other people's fun
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On the flipside, gen speeds will need to be looked at again, since generators go far too quickly, which is another thing that makes killers tunnel
Unfortunately i don't think there's gonna be a perfect solution
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they do but i personally wouldnt want to do gens for longer than 90 seconds. which is why in my system being on a hook would slow gens down by a lot. that way gens still get done in 90 sec but only if no one is on a hook
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I'm personally all for a tweaked deadlock and grim embrace basekit
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So playing killer but I can’t kill survivors? Nah that would turn me away from the game personally. Earning that 4k is satisfying and getting kills is the only sense of winning.
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true you wouldn't get kills during the match but you would at the end and removing death mid-match is the only way i feel it would fix tunneling and camping
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The trick is that in order to make tunneling less attractive, whatever reward you give for not doing so has to be more impactful than tunneling on the game's outcome. Removing one player from the game is a big deal, so the incentive to not tunnel needs to be at least as advantageous to the killer as removing a player from the game. Otherwise it won't make any difference. And if BHVR did something that had that much of an impact on the game, there would be a lot of outcry about how they buffed killer massively.
If it's not as impactful as tunneling, killers who tunnel right now will just ignore it and tunnel anyway after the incentive. It would be like saying "to stop you from doing a thing that gives you $10, we will give you $5 if you do a different thing." It doesn't take much thought to see why that's not going to work.
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well said. you can always increase some of the numbers i suggested like slowing gens down more than what i mentioned to increase the impact of having a survivor on a hook (# > 30-50%) and maybe if the same survivor is hooked back to back the slow down on gens is lessened. im going to edit my post with that in mind
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i feel that giving more time to killer (deadlock) would incentivize tunneling and camping since it gives them more time. if they are going to do it they will but with my idea they'll at least throw the game and hopefully making them realize it's not an effective strat if they are trying to win. and grim would be good but what stops the killer from tunneling and camping the 4th hook? (sorry if i responded multiple times. my posts look like they are getting deleted if i try to edit them)
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I wouldn’t play the game if i had to take a math exam every match just to figure out when the game was going to end.
kills are fine.
if tunneling IS such a terrible mechanic then buff blood lust, make thanatophobia base kit for killers, and make it so that continuously chasing the same survivor without getting a hit in and hook camping inside of kindred radius degrade all emblems and blood points. Not just chaser and devout. Then increase the reward for devout when you hook a new survivor.
give nurse a different perk to make up the thanatophobia base kit change.
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i wanted to do only 3 possible point gains for simplicity (2, 1 & .5) and the .5 is only there for hard tunneling to punish the killer for doing so. sure you can still tunnel and unless there's a mechanic that stops you and death is still a mechanic then it'll continue. but by adding something like a point system and rewarding half the points killers who hard tunnel will lose more often thus deincentivizing that playstyle by teaching them that it wont work. especially if survivors cant die it'll allow new players to keep giving the game a try since they wont feel bad for dying. they'd also being helping since by being chased throughout the game all the gens will get done and since the tunneled survivor is being chased so much they'll slowly get better at looping with that practice
buffing bloodlust would incentivize tunneling since it make chasing any survivor easier.
i believe camping does reduce the emblems for pips (not sure after the recent change involving getting kills for adept challenges). plus some people dont care for points they just want to "win" at any cost, tunneling and camping since kills are the win condition.
with my changes having a hooked survivor would slow the gens being a stronger thana. even though i love kills as a mechanic it's unhealthy since that's the best way to make the game easier and usually if done early slowballs into easier wins for killer since there's less players
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Both are required.
Killers should be rewared to not tunnel and punished for it simultaneously.
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Just add a better version of Dying Light as basekit to killers.
For each hook you'll get several bonuses, from regression to overall slow down.
Hook 1-2 "when you kick a gen, a 5%/10% regression is added"
Hook 3-4 "other than the regression, when you hook a survivor everyone repairing a generator suffer a 10%/20% speed reduction"
Hook 5-6 "regression is increased to 20%/generator speed reduction is increased to 30%"
and so on. Problem solved, tunnel someone out won't be rewarding enough as hooking them
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i agree with rewarding hooks but having permanent debuffs, rather than temporary, will frustrate newer players and sure tunneling someone out will deactivate dying light but the impact of killing a survivor is more impactful. my idea also keeps in mind other perks that can reduce and slow down gens
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Punishing a player for a certain playstyle that has been demmed valid by the devs should not be punished. What you should rather do is rewarding those that play fair. BP incentives and even Iri shards for consistently playing fair should be the alternative solution. Altering the games pace based on how the killer plays is a horrible idea.
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After some hours, you really don't need anymore BP or Iri shard. I've plenty i could gift to other people
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considering these are the same devs that compared this game to hockey i dont know how much we can trust that opinion.
who's to say tunneling and camping isnt fair? it's primarily a subjective opinion and i dont personally like it. some killers only care for kills so extra xp wouldnt fix it for everyone and your idea for it would change the pace since it would try to incentivize killers not to tunnel so either way both of our ideas would do the same
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You won't get rid of tunneling unless you COMPLETELY change the mechanics of the game (so not gonna happen in any case because devs didn't choose to do so when they were still in time). Even when a killer is rewarded more to do hooks instead of kills, for a killer it's always better having 3 survivors than 4 to deal with cause they are more manageable regarding gen defense... (aka you'll get more time available to do HOOKS by removing a survivor asap from the match...)
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agreed. which is why i mentioned that i want to remove the mechanic of death until the end of the match for whoever is alive. there can be extra debuffs on top of what i mentioned. i want gens to be slowed down massively if someone is on a hook that way just like having even 1 bad chase as killer early on can lose you the game due to the impact i want something similar for the killer as a mechanic (im not including dcing and intentionally dying on hook since those arent intended ways to slow down the game)
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The only way you stop camping/tunneling is
- if you bring Kindred Spirit or Signal while you are on the hook and camped.
- Team mates actually doing gens
- Team mates not hiding in bushes, trying to get unhook.
- Team mates dont unhook you right next to Killer.
- Team mates run to take a hit for you.
- team mates dont run straight for a loop away from unhooked.
- You running an anti-tunnel perk.
- team mates running an anti camp perk
etc.
But the majority of players in this game, would never do this. They rather kill themselves on hook or DC.
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Tunneling and camping is a must against good teams or even mediocre teams, taking out a survivor early out of the game, means I won the game.
If you give me bonus, to not tunnel, I will only take it if the team is very weak, and I dont need to tunnel.
However if team is good, then I will tunnel anyway.
The only thing that could make worthwhile to keep survivors alive if that would be bigger slowdown than killing one.
So I guess if 4 survivor alive +100% gen repair time, so instead of 90 sec, survivors take 180 seconds to repair a gen. Then yeah I wouldnt tunnel lol.
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I've 1500 hours, all killers are at least level 3 ( some level 6 or 10 )
I don't care at all about levelling up survivors, maybe that's the reasons, i've always 1k BP left
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Yeah there isnt much point leveling up survivors, they are just skin
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agreed on all points. i just dont know exactly what the values should be. maybe the value increase if the same survivor is on their 3rd hook by only if it's not back to back. thanks for the feedback
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as of right now there's almost nothing that can perfectly stop a killer from tunneling you out of the match other than a 4 man that know how to loop well. which is why the mechanic of death during the game would need to be removed until the end of the game. thinking that solo survivors would do even half of the counters you mentioned is asking to much from them especially new player.
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Reassurance and Borrowed Time will make the Gens done and chance to escape
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that'd help but primarily in a swf. when i play solo almost no one runs those perks. even if solos do bring things to help it only delays it, not outright prevent it unless the survivor is really good at looping and the everyone works as a team. with solo's i dont think that's reasonable to expect consistently
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