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High MMR killer mains were right, Tunneling is a must to win games as killer(save for Nurse/Blight)
Started to encounter highly effective survivor teams/players, they are always on gens, and 3 survivors using Dead Hard, which is effectively third health state, and the killer if playing fairly has to do it again and again (3 hooks, at least 9 hit counting Dead Hard). The reality is that thanks to gen rush items and addons perks, as a killer you simply cant afford to play without tunneling, if you are intend to win.
The only option to take out a survivor as soon as possible, now the game almost feels balanced if 1 vs 3. Playing for hooks and non-tunneling, only possible if the survivor team throwing, and only 1 player on gens, and they prefer chasing you with flashlights.
Anyway tunneling is extremely effective, even if you are against SWF, they are very altruistic they refuse to let a teammate to be tunneled out, and throwing the game, if the team is uncoordinated then even more effective. Most survivor prefer to try to save instead of doing gens, it isnt rare to see only 1 player staying on gens, while the other 2 trying to save teammate.
Now I understand why streamer games looks so easy as killer, they are soft tunneling, and again its very effective and most survivor will look like a baby team trying to prevent it.
However when you play fairly, the team tunneling the gens very fast, outside of chased one, the other 3 are constantly on gens, and letting go the unhooked, means you have to deal with 3 health state once again.
Now I see clearly, this game is extremely survivor sided at high level, and most killer need to tunnel or see the endgame, where survivors taunting with EZ.
Survivors need another objective, or massive slowdown on gens because otherwise with 4 competent survivor players, the killer has to tunnel or face certain losing. Again the funny thing, if survivors would ignore the tunneled or soft camped one, could easily rush through gens and escape, yet they dont do it. So ultimately as a killer, you are depending on survivor team mistakes.
To chase down a survivor with 3 health state, takes much longer than repairing gens.
Its unbalanced.
Again the only viable killers are Blight, Nurse, if you are extremely skilled you can take down teams without tunneling, since the chase time is lesser than with others. Other killers need tunneling, the weaker the chase ability the more the killer needed to tunnel.
So this is the reality of the game balance.
Edit:
One must pick carefully, the weakest link must be tunneled out, picking the wrong survivor will lose the game, if can loop well.
Comments
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I agree with you on pretty much everything. But even as a blight main with a TON of hours, some teams will still give me a run for my money if I don’t get somebody out quick.
Also… DH isn’t really too much of an issue IN MY experience. I just wait / bait it out.
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So....you are saying that in order to beat people playing optimally, you yourself must also play optimally?
Seems kinda like a no-brainer.
High MMR, by all accounts, isn't a real thing. The matchmaker just isn't set up to deliver consistent matches like that.
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I see a lot of that mindset around here and the DbD community in general. It's kind of a weird one for me. I don't think many people would expect to go into a Masters or GM game of OW, miss over half their shots, and win with an off-meta pick. It's a bizarre expectation in a PVP game. I think it kind of ties back into matchmaking like you said. Players can get away with playing poorly and winning over half the time, so they think the other 30% of the time must be a balance issue.
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Killer are not expecting to miss half their shots and win. the problem is hitting 80 to near 100% perfect shots and getting a result that is 0-2 kills. The equivalency for survivor is looping every tile perfectly and 3 survivors dying from killer successfully hitting a survivor 3 times the entire match.
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If I find two survivors and I know that one is on death hook? That’s the one I want out, because if I go after the other one I’m not guaranteed a kill in the end. Know if I’m coming up on the unhooked survivor I’ll hit them then chase the rescuer. I rather have that one forced to mend and heal than just heal.
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Facts.
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As noted above, with Blight you still have to move.
Normally a chase for me is 30-40 seconds. + 10 seconds to carry, hook and reorient on to the next survivor for 40-50 total. This is too long if the survivors are generator focused.
The problem I see is most survivors do not want to win via completing the gens and leaving, they want to loop the killer and feel good about wining in that context, and they want someone else to achieve the gen complete status. That's too bad, because it leads to a lot of pointless arguments.
In short, you still need to focus someone out, to slow down the generators.
As far as playing optimally by using tunneling and camping as needed. Yah of course its true, only maybe Nurse can use a different approach, and the approach I've seen from the survivor side, is equally unfun.
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No, I am saying that if the killer plays by the survivor rulebook aka no tunnel, its physically impossible to win unless the survivor team throwing. Even if one plays pixel perfect game, the map design and the looping takes too much time from killer to take down a survivor if he isnt tunneling, its auto lose vs any decent survivor team.
So one would expect if played very well, could win, but this isnt the case
The core game mechanic is tunneling that makes the game work, and even that is on survivors, because they rather save than do gens, if they were ignore killer would lose anyway
This game is so extremely survivor biased, however with tunneling you can have good results, playing for hooks is autolose though
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True enough, you can do so but you need to be extremely good most likely your livelihood based on playing dbd. Even like OTZ is always attempt to play nice but when he is about to lose, apologizes and saying he has to play dirty to win, so switching to tunneling to turn the game tide.
But anyway I also did these challenges, sometimes if the team is weak, you can do the 3 hook fair challenge, what I have noticed is very difficult and makes playing killer unfun, because stressful, and even be deceiving you think the team is weak but can outperform you surprisingly just because going for more even hooks such a feat from killer, and gives way too much time to survivors
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The equivalency is a survivor can die with 2 mistakes (or 1 with instant down) then die on first hook due to all kinds of reason.
I believe die on first hook happens more than "100% shots and lose the game"
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This has been my experience pretty much the whole night. Tunnel or lose.
Why?
Because when all the survivors took BT, DS, and Unbreakable out of their builds, they replaced them with things like Prove Thyself, Circle of Healing, Built to Last, and other assorted perks that make them much more efficient than they normally would be.
Playing "clean" used to be very strong specifically because you could be nullifying 75% of the survivor perks in the lobby (everything they brought except their exhaustion perk). That's actually huge. Now though, nobody brings anti tunnel, anti slug, or anti camp perks so it has never ever been easier to tunnel, but it is way harder to not... because the survivors are doing everything faster. It also doesn't help that Thanatophobia got butchered.
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Truth behind "tunneling is not as efficient as people think it to be and you shouldn't do it" is "just tunnel better", lol
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If dead hard is a guaranteed third health state against you, it's unlikely you're high mmr. It's a good perk but it's nowhere near that effective.
If you find tunneling helps you win more and you enjoy it, then do whatever. You don't have to announce it on the forum. Don't really be surprised when survivors don't enjoy playing against you though and don't be surprised when you start playing against survivors much better than you to the point where you can't get a hit. It's because instead of gradually getting better at chases, you won matches through macro play. So you'll keep getting matched against harder and harder survivors and the only way to win is to never give you a hook.
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I agree that tunneling is usually the most effective strategy but disagree that you need to be a streamer to not have to tunnel and camp. A Killer at 1800 MMR will be encountering survivors they can regularly win against as more people will be at the 1600 level than the 1800 level. Streamers are, from a different thread, more likely at the 2000 to 2200 MMR level on the average.
It can be done but, once survivors get past the I'm a potato part of the learning curve, I do agree that it's hard to impossible to keep up without tunneling and camping or slugging (or all three) when facing survivors at a similar skill level to the Killer. Personally, I prefer slugging when facing stiff competition.
To get back on track, I'm just saying that it is possible for non-streamers to get far enough ahead of the average skill curve that they don't need to tunnel and camp to win but, by definition, the number of Killers who can get away without tunneling and camping is lower than the number that need to in order to have a decent shot at winning.
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i think it is pretty common for the killer to have fast chases and still lose to generator efficiency. Otz shows a sample game in his tunnel video with demo which could honestly be any killer as it happens to nearly every killer. otz's game with demo is about as common as survivor dying on 1 hook. killer will experience those games on daily basis if they do not engage in tunneling.
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Yeah, hardcore tunneling is a all or nothing strat
I'm pretty sure the mayority of genrush complaints are from people who tried to tunnel the wrong person at the wrong place and gave the other 3 free reign of the gens
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DbD can be very subtle in it's mistakes
You telling me you hit 80%-100% perfect shots and getting zero kills is telling me you don't recognise failed shots
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better killer=more mmr=more swf=voicechat.exe=unfair=99% loose= not time to think tunnel or not because 30 sec gens = tunnel/camp/afk/dc
you cant play bad on purpose to be in low mmr to have fair games
you cant be better as killer cause game will be suffering for you
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Well, as devs said.
Game is balance on kills, not on hooks.
Then, the faster a survivor dies better, there is no reward or incentive for spread hooks.
Also 3v1 is less efficient than 4v1, blame bhvr for setting the rules. In addition survs can bodyblock or help the tunneled one with flashlights or sabo, but yeah then no medkits or other perks.
Unless bhvr change winning condition for killer, tunnel and camping is going to happen.
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