Way to balance out med-kits to make them more unique and less powerful.
Med-kits give more time value to survivors than any other items in the game, being able to heal yourself and get back to work without being at risk of going down in the next hit is very powerful and give survivors so much health state that it can and is a problem.
Med-kits need some balance changes and I have some ideas on how to balance them out.
Each medkit will have their own effect with upsides and downsides affecting playstyles you want to have with them.
Camping aid kit: (brown) has 16 charges, you self-heal at regular speed, you heal other survivors 50% faster, you cannot have add-ons on this item.
This med-kit will be cheap and used once and that's it, you get 1 health state out of it and nothing more.
First aid kit: (yellow) has 24 charges, you heal other survivors 50% faster, healing yourself consume 50% more charges, self-heal speed is regular.
This medkit will be used to heal others and focus on it, you can still get 1 healing out of it but at high cost, even with charges add-ons you'll be able to get at most 2 heals.
Emergency med-kit: (green) has 8 charges, you heal other survivors 100% faster, you heal yourself 100% faster, healing yourself consume 50% more charges.
This med-kit will be used to do VERY quick heals when the situation requires it, you can still heal yourself very quickly but charges will go down so fast it's better to use it on others, you cannot heal yourself twice with this med-kit so it cannot be a problem for self healing.
Ranger med-kit: (purple) has 32 charges, heal other survivors 75% faster, heal yourself 25% slower, consume 25% more charges when healing yourself, good and great skill checks zones are increased by 16%, great skill check while healing other survivors give 5% more progress.
This is the rarest med-kit and so will have the widest playstyle available to it, you can go for self-healing builds but you'll heal yourself slower and the charges will run out faster, even if you run streetwise you will heal yourself slower and if the killer use sloppy it will be worse, it's best to use it on others but you can use it on yourself if you are willing to lose the time and charges.
These changes will make each med-kit unique and have it's own playstyle, the brown and yellow med-kit can be used on everyday matches but green and purple will require a build for it to have the best out of them making survivor sacrifice some perks slots to have more effectiveness.
This is my med-kits balance changes, let me know what you think about it.
Comments
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I'm fine with this tbh
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glad you agree :)
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Although If we're going to look at these I think we should work on mechanic's toolbox. It's just so underwhelming
I mostly liked this idea because each medkit here plays a different role and effect, I'd like this with toolboxes and even rework the Broken key to do.. something without needing an addon
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every items but flashlight need a rework like this I agree, they all do the same thing pretty much, make them all do something different or better than the other by a good amount.
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2 heals instead of 4-5 is way way less oppressive, i'd rather they heal twice than they heal 4-5 times with the same med-kit and recharge with build to last for another 4-5 heals.
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tbh, my idea to fix medkits would be to simply double the time they take to heal you, while buffing healing speed addons.
The logic being that either you can get pretty fast heals (and even at default speed, being able to heal anywhere without teammates isn't bad) at the cost of stacking charges.
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This is a solo q players’ nightmare.
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how so?
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This is a idea but I don't really like it personally, but it is a idea.
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The reason medkits doesn’t change is because SoloQ
Many people brings meds because they don’t want to depend of another teammate because you know why and many people want CoH to be nerfed, so you can’t leave survivors without options to heal.
And if everything to heal get nerfed you gonna see a lot of doctors and Wesker with coulropjobia and sloppy, also Legions
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Some interesting ideas. Essentially medkits need to be generally speaking for healing teammates, not yourself. The fast self heals from them are what make them broken. So keep them good for healing teammates but very limited on yourself.
Self healing in dbd to be balanced always needs to be very slow, limited or require multiple perk synergies. It can’t be as easy, fast, and near infinite as it currently is with medkits and CoH. It basically can’t ever be “good” without heavy limitations and requirements.
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I do not think so. i think you can have fast healing and unlimited healing but the killer has to have fast hit confirmation and fast hit catch-up. The killers need to be like blight where you get an m1 hit and killer can nearly instant catch-up the survivor to continue engaging with the chase. Blight's alchemist ring is a great example of that gameplay. He bounces 3 times, get a hit, power refreshes, uses ability instantly catch-up, gets a hit. that is what every killer should strife to be. Fast-paced high-action chase interaction.
Because hit confirms for blight are coming at an average of 15 seconds per hit, fast healing makes a lot of sense. Nurse is like that as well disregarding the recharge add-on nerfs, its similar time to down with blink-blink hit, blink-blink-hit. in the context of a strong chase killer, fast healing makes sense. The problem is that this is not your average killer. your average m1 killer is walk someone approaching a generator, survivor is pre-running forward due to terror radius stalling the chase for 20-30 seconds. The killer gets into a chase and starts building bloodlust, the killer finally gets a hit, now the killer has to walk forward for 20 seconds because of speed boost+cooldown and amist all this, you have to deal with safe pallets that force killer to break pallets(because it is time inefficient to bloodlust+some loops are physically impossible to get survivor at), so in between all this gameplay. you have pre-run 30 seconds, break,break, break,hit-break, break, break pallet, hit. this whole formula for m1 killers is way too slow. This problem has multiple issues but in regard health-states, hold-w with health-state should never be rewarding. Healing time should always be slower then running forward for health-states. health-states in my opinion should be second-chances towards looping itself, not some build-in time-waste mechanic for the killer. This is why if they expanded their lower-hit speed burst to 1.5 seconds instead of 1.8 seconds and more hit cooldown reduction similar to their 10 second base-kit BT with 10% haste, hold-w through health-states would be less effective time-wasters and body-blocking(which is one of problems with swf) would be much more difficult to abuse because the killer would be more machine-gun oriented. M1 chase-type killer would more fast-paced at least towards health-states because they would get hits as fast as survivor can heal.
The only type of killer where fast healing does not work is stealth killers. that is because stealth killer are based off the idea of capitalizing off injured survivors, detaching chases and being unpredictable. In order for stealth killers to optimize their hit&run tactics, they need perks that make healing difficult. there are no current perks in the game that reduce healing speed enough for their hit & run unpredictability to be effective so this all whole genre of killers is completely dead and has been completely dead for most of dbd lifespan. in old days, it was dead because of self-care perk healing survivors 24 seconds and in the new dbd, its dead because of Circle of healing/med kit spamming(from increase bloodpoint changes). stealth killer lack perks to off-set these advantages that are normally balanced around top-tier chasing-type killers.
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I mean that’s kind of an irrelevant point as of course yeah if hits are fast enough then the fast self healing wouldn’t matter but that’s not going to happen. Survivors already take issue with those few killers that do get hits fast enough. That’s like saying fast self heals wouldn’t matter if survivors only took 1 hit to down now instead of 2…well yeah, but that’s not going to happen. You’d have a significantly more likelyhood of the devs slowing the game down for longer hits to be okay than vice versa which is what you’re referencing. Which slowing things down would be a much healthier route anyway as then the survivors get their long chases which are fun for them but it’s okay because then the games are slowed down enough to where the killers can have those long chases but it doesn’t cost them the game like it does now.
Essentially I think you’re talking about taking the longest and most work intensive as well as least fun route to fixing the problem.
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I'd say that weakening healing makes stronger killers more powerful but does little to improve weaker killers because they will still hurt by health-states especially if facing bodyblocking swf. I think it also encourages the survivors to rush generators/play safe by dropping pallet sooner more because healing is less appealing as a result of being slower, so a lot of games end up being like plague and legion games where people do not cleanse/heal and rush generators more as healing is somewhat removed/highly discouraged from the game. Of course I am taking an extreme example when using those two killers but I am saying that is general direction it is pushing the game towards.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
When I read this thread it looks like killers struggle very much. It's like killrate was 39% and needed some real boosts, because killing any survivor is such an impossible task.
Sure. Slow down healing speed. But if that's the case, make chasing for survivors better. Let's get to equal 50% for both sides. So remove 5% speed from every killer's movement speed (abilities included, consider their current speeds 100% right now and remove 5% from that) so that chasing while injured is viable. Otherwise this is just a recipe for 80%+ killrate
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I personally don't have issues, it is simply a fact med-kit are too powerful and it simply downgrade self-healing while not affecting altruistic actions with them
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I would personally get rid of all the different item tiers, and just have base items.
Brown Medkit, Brown Toolbox, Brown Flashlight, etc. Then you put all of the modifiers onto the add ons.
This would reflect the killers position a lot better, after all the killer gets two add ons, and cannot change their base power.
The add ons could still be buffed to compensate for this, but crucially the ability to triple-stack certain attributes would be removed, such as using a faster-healing Med kit with two add ons that increase healing speed. Instead, you get a base medkit, and can only increase the speed via equipping two add ons, which leaves you short of multiple charges.
This would make for a system that's much easier to balance, as you have fewer variable combinations to account for.
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If you think about it, this is not the case.
You can think of it like you have exactly 1 survivor+skins and 1 killer+"mandatory skin set" depending which "base item" you pick. The only difference is, that killer has 31 "items" while survivors ~5 (depending how you count it) and killer's base items just don't have rarities (but then we have to realize that killer abilities are generally way stronger then any item in the game).
The game is designed around doing gens while being healthy for most of the time (because otherwise your chases are usually way too short - plague is powerless without cleansing = something good survivors don't do, but she still has very high win rate regardless - her power is just that you can't heal & are injured most of the game and that's enough for her to be very strong killer). There's already a huge nerf to self care, there are lot of threads to nerf it's substitute (CoH) and now you want to nuke medkits too.
Like sure. You can. But I expect massive buffs to survivor as compensation.
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changes to medkits that are for healing others instead of yourself go the wrong way. The one and only reason to take a medkit is to not have to search the whole map for a teamie or a chest with a medkit. There is a certain kind of vet that seems to belittle players who rather play uninjured than injured by saying sth along the lines of "survs have just forgotten how to play with one health state" - but somehow seem to conveniently forget that quite a number of changes over that past year have made it so that starting a chase injured is a recipe for desaster - safe for very confident dh/sb+resilience players maybe.
The one issue yellow and ranger medkits have is the sheer amount of heals you can get out of them. Then again; Ranger medkits are also incredibly rare. I'd say keep the ranger medkits - but change esp. the yellow medkits. When taking rarity into account ranger medkits aren't super broken and slight changes like taking away some charges or taking away some speed should suffice (not sure about others but on average I get 1 ranger medkit per prestige level... which really isn't a lot). The same can't be said for yellows; there is one in nearly every other bloodweb and the add-ons are very abundant as well, giving you two to three rather speedy heals whenever you need them. That is a bit much. For the yellows either the charges have to be reduced so that you would have to really stack addons in addition to taking streetwise/BTL to get three heals out of it - or reduce the speed.
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