To everyone saying DH is so easy to counter...

Or it could be you're missing the point instead. I watched the second video and he didn't even try to bait out DH; he just ate it and still downed the survivors a few seconds later. DH had barely any effect. If anything, DH looks weak in these videos (which it's not; it's just the Oni was really good at picking when and where to chase but if you're trying to make a point about avoiding DH you kind of need a video where they actually try to avoid DH first).

It's more like a decision made... to just swing for it leave it up to the Survivor to hit the button that causes DW to be applied then have them deal with it

This doesn't prove what you think it does.

I dunno why you guys keep bringing up tournaments as critique. The game isn't balanced enough to host a tournament without cutting parts of the game out.

That alone spells out all you need to know. So there isn't really a point in bringing it up considering just how many things get yeeted and deleted during tournaments to put them into even a modicum of balanced play. If the game was fully ready for a tournament you'd be able to run 4 DH and it wouldn't be a problem. There wouldn't be any perk bans or needs to adjust anything.

I don't find it personally to be an issue when 3 or 4 survivors have it. You do and that's something you should express. If it is very stressful for a lot of people to deal with then that's a separate issue from DH being uncounterable or not easy to bait out which is what the original OP was saying. I don't know if that will have much sway with BHVR as the flipside is it's a lot of fun for survivors and they have to be considered as well but definitely put that argument out there. My response was in the context of the thread which is 'DH is uncounterable and a third state!' which is just hyperbole. I don't get an opinion on how other people than myself feel about things so, if it's too stressful, put it out there. It's just if it's posted in a thread that's based on DH hyperbole it'll get confused with that issue so it might be better to have a separate thread for it.

Then please explain your argument on why dh isn't ok.

For our 2 cents, dh is annoying but in a good spot for now, baring the amount of times it's seen and the occasional script users. Either eat through or bait, it requires both sides doing something for it to work (or fail)

The first paragraph may need dumbed down for us as we're not sure the point is other than "just because we're technically correct doesn't mean dh is fine".

To us that sounds more like smart use of tools being able to put you in that position time and time again. Regardless you could use old dh to block a hit (which has been done at pallets even) but has changed so now instead of having a veriety of used for every situation it now has a more focused use.

We're not sure how your both countering dh while giving it the same use as old dh so we're going to need an explanation on that.

You are comparing DH to calm spirit. I'm saying that an exhaustion perk which all survivors run 1 of is not only the most used but overtuned vs certain killers. This is the same thing for old COH. For some killers it was way more broken of a perk compared to others. This is exactly how I see current DH.

Irrelevant on whether it is smart or not. The point is that good survivors will try to put themselves in these positions and the perk has no counterplay while giving absurd value when in this position.

I bait DH by holding m2 and pair the HISS from Demo with flicking my camera up. If a Survivor is at a corner/pallet they DH which I don't attack into which is me countering them and yet their DH covers my attack window resulting in old DH. I outplay you and yet you get rewarded. That is the complete opposite of a high risk/high reward perk. If you failing it results in still being rewarded there was no risk involved.

The pallet play vs Demo with a failed DH is just eat the pallet. If you are able to bait the DH there typically is too small of a timing window which makes the correct play just getting the pallet instead of risking it. This is basically the same thing that old DH did.

But this is what I fail to understand. You view the DH proc as you outplaying the survivor, with no regard for the survivor timing up the DH proc. And there's nowhere near the same energy dedicated by killer players to a Sprint Burst at 15-20 meters, a Lithe before chase even starts, or a Balanced Landing that puts the survivor halfway across the map. I'm not trying to use whataboutism. Those are just as impactful as DH, if not more, and they carry a fraction of the risk and counterplay potential. But killers absolutely lose their minds if they lose a 50/50 to DH. I don't understand where this perception comes from that DH is somehow more impactful, problematic, and less counterable than other exhaustions when they're used optimally.

Are we saying players shouldn't get value out of exhaustion perks at this point?

Thank you for clarification

Yes we were as the argument was "In general the perk is problematic vs certain killer powers that are telegraphed. Vs these killers the perk becomes low risk/high reward" . Is dh a problem because its so used, is it a problem because of certain killers? Then we come back to this "For some killers it was way more broken of a perk compared to others. This is exactly how I see current DH." . To go back to the calm spirit deal, as doc it negates almost all his tracking ability (he still gets a score event and add ons can still track), it negates any sort of screaming build, and currently can invalidate a whole rift challenge (darkness revealed one where they need to scream due to the perk).

Id argue against it being irrelevant. When a huntress holds her hatchet to simply zone someone out thats effectively putting survivors in a similar deal. Survivors can't do anything but get hit or use dh then either fail dh or get hit a few seconds later due to being herded into wherever she wants.

This is our opinion but that doesn't sound like an outplay or counter. That is to us overly respecting both the pallet and perk, but again thats our opinion as we tend to just aggressively attack.

Forced to use the top 16 perks instead of all 4 survivors getting the best 4 is nerfing the survivors. This means being forced to use the top 16 perks instead of the top 4 is a large nerf to the survivors