If dead hard is such a problem why arent players using more one shot killers or legion?
it is easier to chew through the hIt states correct? I use legion exclusively right now because his/her frenzy hits apply deep wounds so dead hard isnt available.
killers such as bubba, ghostface, and myers should in theory be the correct counter.
Why use other killers if you cant successfully mind game and wait out the dead hard?
it is like if you have a problem with multiple med kits being used and the obvious counter is to use plague more.
Thoughts and opinions?
Comments
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Because one-shot killers and Legion are generally low-tier, and can just be looped for ages.
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Because people like to play the killers they find fun, not be forced to play specific killers that have certain strengths.
If 3-genning is such a problem, why doesn't everyone just run Potential Energy?
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Because you can only use your one-shot once with those Killers; after that, the Survivor can just stay injured and get the DH anyway.
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dont legion and bubba have among the higher kill rates though? i only know of trapper being the lowest and trapper doesnt have to deal with dead hard with big brain plays either.
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i agree potential energy should be used to solve that problem as well as off the record to discourage tunneling and reassurance to discourage camping. the tools are there they just have to be used correctly.
it isn't hard to designate one of each of those perks as a utility to survivors playing in a swf.
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Ok. So why are all survivors running Potential Energy every single game then?
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with bubba you can catch up and with legion you just make sure to get a frenzy hit first...there is counter play available. ghostface and myers yeah i guess they are screwed but myers is supposed to get an addon update.
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Oneshot killers don't really work. You can deny dead hard exactly once with your power and then they'll just stay injured and will be able to e you're usual very telegraphed power
Legion kinda works but you don't really want to start every chase by frenzying survivors so you can still be hit by it.
Hitting a injured survivor with frenzy just so they can't dead hard isn't really preventing it but letting them have it earlier (they still get hit and have a speedboost)
While it is better since it's on your terms but it isn't always ideal
Also most people also don't want to get better at the m1 game so they don't like Legion
Deadslinger is the one killer that really doesn't give a single damn about dead hard
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We already see enough complain threads about bubba, legion and Myers?
About them always camping, being boring and only bringing their good add-ons?
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are you saying why aren't they running it every single game? i guess they feel confident that 3 genning isn't a problem in there games and found the counter play using deja vu or splitting up the gens that are done across the map?
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if the killer camps with any of these killers then the killer lose the games with the other survivors doing gens...that is the counter play especially against bubba.
same with legion, don't group up and frenzy isn't as big a problem
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legion, myers, ghostface, slinger, skull merchant, bubba, and billy are all low tier killers who get ######### on by any competent team on a decent map.
also we shouldnt be forced to play an entirely different character than what we enjoy to deal with ONE perk
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and its always people with dh and bnps and other good survivor things too, lol
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so how should dead hard be nerfed to make it fair for these killers?
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I think Dead Hard needs a full rework like Ruin did. In my opinion, nothing will make the perk less frustrating without making it completely useless.
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Those killers aren't viable at high MMR.
"But my favorite content creator 4ks all the time with no perk/addon Legion!"
Yeppp.
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My lord, you're right! You know what else counters DH? Tunneling and camping! That's the solution.
Maybe I'll just become a basement Bubba main.
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I play a wide variety of killers, I shouldn’t have to be forced to just play a select few cause of one ######### perk.
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But "we" want our 3rd health state perk instead of being limited to only two. /s
Just play Pinhead, Legion & Deathslinger 3 out of 31 Killers that can avoid dead hard even when survivors intentionally stay injured.
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If it work based off your hookstates it might not be as harsh. Gives you a third Health state If Your on Deathhook.
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because I play Killers for their gameplay and design, not their ability to counter one perk. Literally everything else about my experience is dictated by who I'm choosing to play, I shouldn't have to throw out all of that as an answer to a single perk (which, as noted, can still counter onehit killers easily enough).
Also, I definitely shouldn't need to spend who knows how long grinding every perk I don't have instantly at level 3 on a given Killer, to deal with a single Survivor perk. This is a game, not a job.
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nerfed to the ground. make it useless, im so sick of this perk and its reign of terror on the game
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And? Kill rates have nothing to do with how good a killer is. Freddy is an example, he's one of the worst killers in the game yet he has one of the highest kill rates.
Also, I don't know where you got the idea that trapper doesn't have to deal with deadhard because he certainly does.
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1 shot killers till have to deal with dead hard. If you are injured, you can still dead hard the 1 shot.
Legion is played a lot actually, but the reality is they are mostly pretty terrible in general and have other problems that aren't dead hard.
The one i have been seeing the most of (and using a lot) is people playing pinhead with the original pain addon
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Source on that add-on update? Because if that's true, I'm gonna be pissed that they're listening to 1v1 babies and nerfing tombstone.
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it does counter it and the tools are all there...you dont have to basement bubba though normal bubba works.
i wouldnt fault you after all only kills and escaping the trial affects mmr
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it was mentioned a while back after the addon update for ghostface i believe...sorry dont remember the official source just that myers was the next killer to be looked at for an add on pass
if someone wants to put the source please help out
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does that counter deadhard pretty well?
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Yeah, but why risk it? They could stay injured and DH next time you find them, if you decide against camping. And camping with Bubba... Well, it pretty much always leads to a basement one way or another.
Basement Bubba is a failsafe way in that regard.
Maybe I could also play Billy and tunnel every survivor relentlessly off hook. That should work as well.
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Because legion is boring as hell
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Basically if you hit them with a chain while injured, they can't dead hard, and then if they break the chain, they get deep wound, and can't dead hard. So yeah, pretty much hard counters it.
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kill rate stats are what the usually base nerfs on it just isnt specified if it is at a high mmr or low mmr. for example, the twins brown add on was nerfed because it was overused at high mmr while old ruin was nerfed because it was supposedly to oppresive for newer survivors.
and trapper doesnt have to deal with dead hard if you chase them into his traps
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thanks for the tip
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Running Save the Best for Last makes DH actively benefit you by giving you more stacks faster. Also largely makes DH irrelevant since you catch up so quick after a hit.
Don't need to play a specific killer, just need to run Save.
For M2 killers that can't get good value from save, maybe try a perk or add-on that makes survivors exhausted? Fearmonger is the most consistent, but Blood Echo has a niche if you are playing a killer that people stay injured against (e.g. one-shot killers).
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yeah when i am not running legion, stbfl is on whatever killer that is played
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Because players don't want to be forced into playing certain characters just to counter a perk.
It's the same thing with Plague and CoH. It's nice that she hard counters it because she pretty much invalidates all regular forms of healing, but none of that means anything for anyone who wants to play a different killer.
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You know what, you're right, let me just throw on MYC and...oh WAIT. -_-
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While the first part is true, kill rates still have nothing to do with how good a killer is. Also, if a survivor sees your trap they can just take a hit from you and deadhard through it. Or they could just, y'know, walk around it like most survivors do. You're still gonna have to do with deadhard when playing trapper, like you do when playing most other killers.
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i know kill rates have nothing to do with how good a killer is otherwise nurse would not be so low and the game wouldn't be balanced around that information.
deadhard grants endurance not invincibility; i havent had a single person deadhard through my traps when i play him.
the hitboxes being crap when survivors just walk around traps while the trapper walks into them i will give you that one
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myc would still work if the unhooker is uninjured...i mean before the scream update on perks not sure how it is now
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