http://dbd.game/killswitch
Bring back the Incapacitation to Eruption
Yeah, I know this is going to get me called 'trash' or what not by survivor mains based on the title alone before anyone bothers reading this, but the Incapacitation was what made Eruption strong. The regression was just 10% which is roughly 9 seconds at most shaved off the repair progress. The aura reading that replaced the Incapacitation? Useless to most killers.
So bring back the Incapacitation but set the duration to something like 15 seconds at max rank instead of the joke that is the aura reading or the original oppressive 25 second Incapacitation. In fact, time and time again before it got nerfed one of the most suggested ideas I saw for nerfing it was reducing the Incapacitation duration to 10-15 seconds at max rank.
If you've just downed someone, the aura reading from an Erupted generator now is useless because you are going to be carrying the survivor you just downed to a hook and not going to the generator that just blew up.
Failing that, cause an Erupted generator to explode, start regressing and block it off by the Entity for like 20 seconds and if the Killer injures or downs a survivor again before that 20 seconds is up, the blocking ends early.
Comments
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I don't know which thread it was but Mandy commented relaying the dev's position on the incapacitated status effect and it seems the devs have decided that the whole status effect should be exclusive to certain killer powers. The reason she gave was, iirc, that a status effect that effectively gives you a time out from playing the game altogether and without a condition to end it (you have to wait it out) has been categorically deemed unhealthy for the game. (Other incapacitated status effects are part of a killers power and usually until you do X - like doctors madness where you need to snap out - or extremely short/limited - like doctor's regular shock )
I agree with that.
That being said, I could live with Eruption being an exception from that rule if it was sth like 5/7/9 seconds (though; i don't think that's enough to make it valuable - and any more and we're back to what's above) or required you to do that thing you need to do to get rid of skully's drones before you can do sth else again.
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the Devs considered it and no, they changed the Perk around instead. bHVR is pretty democratic so the pleads of the community has convinced the developers it was a bad idea. here have a repost:
@Halloulle I got you fam.
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I've never understood why people are so averse to passive information that you don't immediately act on. Knowing where survivors are is still useful to you even if you don't immediately go and chase them, it doesn't have to always be as straightforward as killer-see-killer-chase. There's wider macro knowledge to consider too.
Not that the aura read on Eruption is what makes it viable. 10% regression on multiple generators at once is still pretty solid, especially on mobile killers who can apply the mark quicker than others.
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Especially as most people running Eruption are often running it with CoB and Overcharge too. It's never used alone. It's not powerful enough.
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I know they didn't think about the status effect way back then, but Old Freddy's power of pulling survivors into the dream world would have been better if the incapacitated effect applied during that 7 second transition time so that survivors couldnt immediately continue working on the gen, or failing a skill check to get out of the dream world (among other buffs he could have received over a full rework).
I agree that incapacitated should only apply from killer powers.
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Because most killers can't act on aura reading the gutted Eruption provides and by the time you can act on it, the lost progression has already been made up for and by the time you get there the generator is about to pop if it hasn't already.
Aura reading when you've downed someone is useless because if you just downed someone you're going to be carrying them to the nearest hook, not stomping over to an Erupted generator.
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That's my point. You don't need to immediately act on the information for that information to be useful to you, it is still useful and valuable knowledge even if you don't act on it at all because it tells you where survivors are.
Knowing where everyone is, even in situations where you're not going over to them, is valuable information. It lets you make more informed decisions and better enhances your macro gameplay. This is why Thrilling Tremors is a pretty decent perk even though you aren't going to act on the information when you get it, because it lets you make more informed decisions - the point of it isn't that you go walk to the unblocked generator while carrying the survivor, the point is that you know which generators are being worked on and which aren't.
Plus, again, the aura isn't why you'd run Eruption. 10% regression on multiple generators simultaneously is perfectly usable, that's still a pretty solid regression perk- the aura is just a nice bonus for helping control the trial with better macro information.
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I think that's the point, it's a good perk on some killers but not overly oppressive on EVERY single killer. A billy can't just lock down gens using a mindless gen kick build, but if he's decent he can use his mobility to act upon the information given by eruption
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By that same logic, they should also reduce, change or remove all the stuns and slow downs "without conditions to end it" that survivors inflict and the own killer has as basekit like blast mine, DS or the slowdown on hit for DH.
They don't need to bring back the incapacitation effect, but it should have being changed for something equally useful in slowing down generator progress, not giving it an effect that funny enough would be useful only in a slugging build, something they also want to "nerf".
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....that is not at all by the same logic tho.
"equally useful" is also problematic as something "equally useful" also entails equally oppressive --- and the whole point of the change and the categorical no to incapacitated by use of perks is that such a degree of oppression should be reserved for killer powers.
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Yes, it is the exact same logic. In fact, it is worst, as with incapacitation you can still move. And if you say it is not because of the time of the effect, they could effectively reduced the duration of Incapacitation to 5 seconds and that would be more useful than what they did.
And sorry but no, they didn't said nothing about the "degree of oppression", they say specifically "effects that limit survivors to not doing anything at all", that was the excuse given. "Problematic" to deal with and oppressive is precisely what killers perks should be for the survivors, and Eruption effect should have been changed to something like blocking the gen for 20 seconds, even more so with their reasoning to remove the Incapacitation effect.
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What if Eruption only works on 1 gen, but regresses 10% of total progress for each survivor working on the gen at the time of putting a survivor into the dying state?
If it's the start of the match and the survivors are spread out, likely only 10% progress is lost.
If it's the end of the match and three survivors are trying to hammer the last gen, it could lose 30% if they're not careful/aware/strategic about it.
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It still isn't the same logic. It's the old apples and oranges thing. Sure - both are fruit but that still doesn't mean they're the same / should be treated / evaluated the same. That aside, I won't argue with you about something I already pointed out in the post you first quoted.
Using the word "excuse" implies you think it's an arbitrary decision not founded in reason. I disagree. - Though you are right they didn't explicitly state the oppressiveness as a reason. It is however how I interpret their evaluating the perk as unhealthy ( esp. for soloQ) due to the complete inability to progress the game in anyway. Because causing the other side to be unable to progress the game in any way is the very definition of maximum pressure / total oppression. -- You also seem to apply the word problematic to a different context. I meant problematic from a game health perspective, in case that wasn't clear. - And on a last note: oppressive is not a binary thing. Hence me saying "this degree of oppression". You even quoted it.
Is how the perk works now any good? I don't know. The aura reading does seem a bit arbitrary. - Though, I do appreciate their effort to not add another flavour of "this gen is blocked because reasons". - Maybe eruption will see another change that is less arbitrary than aura reading and more original than a gen being blocked.
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I hate what they did. Useless information is bad information.
For the survivors who seem to not understand how redundant the information is let me put it in a scenario you can understand.
This is the equivalent of finishing a gen, and getting the auras of crows. It’s not helping you. You have more pressing issues at that moment. Like finding a gen, finding someone to heal, even getting to the gates.
That’s how it feels to be given auras when you cant act on them without abandoning your objective. Which you just spent time to do. This isn’t like FOR or BBQ, where you are free to act on the information. This is forced information at a inopportune time. Like seeing the killers aura as the Mori you.
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Way to say a lot of words, without saying nothing. It is the same logic and you failed to explain why it is not. But the funny thing is all of those things can be changed to something that doesn't left the killer in the same place without even be a nerf to survivors, so even if it wasn't there is no reason to not do it:
- Blast Mine can just blind the killer so he could still finish to kick the gen and start walking while the effects hits, not just simply "wait it out".
- DS could add a boost in speed to the survivor instead of stunning for those 5 seconds. Yes, that survivor got away, but at least I can start go after another right away.
- Survivors already gain an speed boost plus killers a cooldown to be able to attack again, why I need to be also slowed down so I can't even go to another survivor after a hit? More so when that hit was to a DH?
- A long etc. with all the other "oppressive" things survivor can have and use in a match at the same time.
That's why I said it is an "excuse", because if that was really it they could just reduce the time so "it's not so oppressive", change it to block the gen instead and do the same to other effects like that. So, the only real reason to that change is "survivors are crying like hell as it has no real counterplay, and god forbids something the killer do don't have a clear and easy counterplay so it's just a slight nuisance to them, so daddy BHVR would simply kill the perk and problem solved". If BHVR would have changed the effect to something equally useful for the killer, like blocking the gen, people would still be crying about Eruption and they know it.
What I want to know is why they even bother to put it in the PTB in the first place. Technically, the reason to put it in there is if the change isn't good they should not put it in live and keep trying to change it. Do they pretend to say that anyone apart from the survivors main saw that change and said "Oh yeah, that new effect is super useful for any killer. Really good perk, to the live servers ASAP."? Because I don't believe it for a second.
And to finish, with most games ending in 4-5 minutes what killers need right now is precisely a ton of flavors of "this gen can not be progressed". I think is time for BHVR to stop designing killer powers and perks for the good of survivors, because if SM being the killer with the most survivor friendly power they can think off is proof of something is of this mentality they have.
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What about just... blocking the gen for the time that old eruption did? People can do other stuff but you still get something out of it. Maybe even give it a unique property where the gen regresses still but at a slightly slower rate. Say... %75.
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SM being the killer with the most survivor friendly power
You just totally discredited yourself. I can no longer take anything from you with straight face.
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..... You are the one who made the argument that it is the same. I wasn't convinced because it is not the same; survivor and killer have fundamentally different mechanics. But I'll humour you: If anything a survivor stun is of the same category as the doctor's shock. A stun lasts 2 seconds - not 25. And since I didn't actually change my opinion or anything: I wouldn't even mind if Eruption was the exception to the rule and applied incapacitated for a few seconds. But I also said I doubt that would make anyone happy because that short duration is likely not useful enough. Again: the degree matters. A degree of incapacitated that is long enough to be useful is also unhealthy for the game because it prevents the survs from doing anything to progress the match in a disproportionate way, aka is way too oppressive.
Since the rest is even more off topic I won't address it. If you feel so strongly about it, I recommend starting a thread. I would actually like to join you in that thread cause it is an interesting argument.
You are making assumptions what the dev's intention/rationale was. Granted, so am I - but personally I think the devs trying to find a way to make slowdown perks more diverse seems more plausible. Another perk that blocks a gen isn't exactly adding to diversity. The incapacitated was something else and new in relation to perks --- and it missed the mark. And like I said I doubt the aura reading is gonna hit it either. Putting Eruption in with the chapter also means it could receive further changes together with other perks in the midchapter. I really hope they do that.
And I agree, there should be different flavours of 'this gen can't be progressed' - but I don't think we need more iterations of 'this gen is blocked'. There are other ways to keep a gen from being progressed right away.
On a side note: I would really love to see what kind of matches you play that are over in 4-5 minutes on average. And can I have some of those? Cause safe for a face camping insta down killer, someone overcommitting way too much to the wrong person or someone being plain afk... this hasn't happened in ages for me. Neither does this happen on killer for me - not on a regular basis anyhow.
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Dude, 10 seconds to be exposed, visual cues for the radius on active and inactive, easy as hell to remove the drones and claw trap with the minigame (if it is inactive, just avoid the red scanner pass and go for it, you would hack it without even activating it). It's the most easy and avoidable power they put in a killer since Freddy at launch, and like I said in another comment with him at least you can argue that they didn't expect people to fail skillchecks on purpose to avoid it.
We can talk about her 3gen and how it is hard for some SoloQ squad survivors to avoid it all you want, but her power being ridiculously weak and counterable is a fact. People also complained of Freddy while being ridiculous weak just because they didn't know how to counter his power and BHVR nerfed him anyways:
And taking in count I saw post of people that somehow had difficulties figuring out how the minigame to hack the drones work... well, I have to say anything more?
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It's not survivor friendly no matter how you look at it. Survivor friendly power is something that engages. Something that brings challenge, but is possible to play around. Wesker is arguably good example. This? Sorry no. You discredited yourself. And "strength" of ability means nothing in face of being "survivor friendly"
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I have easy this time to awnser you: If you were right in anything you said, they would just reduce the Incapacitation effect of Eruption to 2-5 seconds instead of 25, not changing the effect to something not even related to the original or that is not useful in any way unless you have a slugging build. Simple as that.
And I'm going to guess you don't play killer enough. The moment you start getting the good survivors that know what they are doing you would have 2 gens pop up by the time you do your first hook. And as someone that have started playing survivor as much as killer, I could say to you the times this didn't happen is because the survivors itself. I don't know how many times I would finish a whole generator by myself while my partners have their status icon empty. Those are the people that then complains about not be able to coordinate being SoloQ players.
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I think you and me have a different definition of "survivor friendly". When I said "survivor friendly" I mean it is extremely easy to counter or avoid. But by your own definition, SM power don't bring any challenge to survivors as it is not a challenge at all to avoid or counter it. And I'm assuming that you meant "challenge" in "fun" for the survivor, but it should be a challenge for them because it gives an advantage to the killer. If you can completely nullify his power with ease, it's not an advantage.
To put it as an example, it's like putting a rocket launcher in a shooting game that everytime you use it everyone would get a shield they can use by just holding a button to not being damage by it. Why the hell would I want to use the rocket launcher in the first place? What advantage would I get from something that doesn't matter how much damage it does, it would be countered easily by anyone? Well, that's SM power.
So, I agree with you, but not in the way you meant.
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idk if you want me to repeat it every single post but again: "I wouldn't even mind if Eruption was the exception to the rule and applied incapacitated for a few seconds. But I also said I doubt that would make anyone happy because that short duration is likely not useful enough." - You seem very hellbent on only accepting your own line of thought and absolutely refuse to entertain any other train of thought. As such I doubt it makes sense to discuss further. Let's leave it at a diplomatical: agree to disagree on Eruption.
As for killer: I don't play a whole lot of killer, true, compared to survivor anyhow. - But I got about 800 killer hours over the past year - half of which - or even more - is on one killer. I dare say: if you have 400 hours on one killer you're out of the newb pool. Prestiges and hours don't mean too much but I do think it's still safe to assume that P50+ and 2k+ hours survs aren't exactly new to the game either. But yes, I often do have my first hook right around the time the first one or two gens pop - and I don't sweat it. And neither do I camp or tunnel - I still average out at around 65-70% killrate - and that is while leaving the last surv to go and find hatch nine out of ten times. I play extremely chill and sometimes I can tell survivors can tell and they play rather chill too. - I'm tempted to say that's the secret; to just be chill and not sweat it.... but i am very well aware that many - if not most - people playing dbd beg to differ. So it's just what I do and it works for me and that's all i care about <3
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It's you who is stuck in taking this personally. I'm talking about the community as a whole, and you didn't have anything to do with the reason behind the change. It's you who still keep arguing that you personally won't mind... great for you! Doesn't change my point in any way and doesn't makes you be more right about everything else.
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Again. I don't care how strong her ability is (to the point - if it's way too little or way too much, it hinders fun by this alone). The problem is, that the power is pure boring and promotes games that take way too long with nothing happening. Not survivor (or IMO also killer) friendly at all
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I honestly just thought it could've been well balanced by making the incapacitated require failing a difficult Skill Check
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