http://dbd.game/killswitch
Killer wastes player's time, good. Matchmaking wastes player's time, bad.
How is it, that...
The devs are fine with players stuck twiddling their thumbs while bleeding out over 4 minutes as the killer hunts down the last survivor.
But the devs are not fine with players stuck twiddling their thumbs for 4 minutes while a lobby gets backfilled with an equally skilled opponent? Instead they throw in the next available player, regardless of skill rating, to save them from waiting (only for it to be a 1-sided match)?
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People complained that wait times were too big so the requirements were adjusted to favor speed over quality. Can't have a quick and fair match at the same time anymore.
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When they tested this stuff out last year, the day with the most accurate MMR bracket had way more wait times than 4 minutes. IIRC most people reported around 15 min, while those in high MMR were apparently waiting 1-2 hours (some were popular streamers).
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I've seen so many people complain that slug times were too long, and I agree with them.
What happened to the basekit unbreakable?
Better question: which side abused it to prevent it from being implemented in the base game? (Usually what happens)
Post edited by Nos37 on4 -
So are you suggesting we fix the slug for the 4k by removing hatch?
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Basekit Unbreakable would cause more problems rather than provide the solution to slugging. It's good this thing was not introduced in the end.
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Basekit Unbreakable was to accompany the Finishing Mori. The FM would enable killers to end a game with 0 hooks if they desired, purely by slugging. The devs obviously anticipated this, and to keep hooking necessary they would have introduced basekit UB. I don't think they ever intended to release it on its own.
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That is an idea!
That hatch is dumb, degrades game play across the entire match and...
Why is it still here?
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I find myself wondering about the same thing. Also, when the killer closes the hatch and the survivor lost their second chance, why is it they get a third chance at escaping (via exit gates)?
Doesn't make much sense to me.
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No, I'm pointing out that the devs don't mind people's time being wasted (slugging), but claim they don't want people's time being wasted (waiting for a decent match).
If anything, let the slugged survivor concede and move on, and let a survivor bot crawl on the ground.
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The devs tested on a ptb a while back of a system where if all other survivors are slugged or hooked, then downing the last survivor will automatically end the game. So to say the devs don't care about wasting time in game is not fair.
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Well back when i played i got 1 minute wasted EVERY match in lobby for someone to finish their build or rather pull a "sneaky" last second switch (which lost them all interaction with me during the match) and 3 further minutes waiting for them to leave.
The latter of course was partial willingly from my side since i didn't want to give them any satisfaction by giving them an audience when pushing them out and in petty revenge make them waste their own 3 minutes while i used that time productively (also an option for anyone getting bled out btw).
But yeah, fast queue times due to muddy and broad matchmaking requirements is, was and always will be a stupid decision.
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Based
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But so many problems could be solved by just removing the hatch and starting the EGC automatically once there is only 1 survivor left.
- survivors ratting out their teammates
- survivors hiding and doing nothing in the hope the other survivor gets found first
- slugging for 4k
- general toxicity because of the hatch
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Ah yes, what a perfect idea that certainly cant make situations even worst!
Im surprised you havent sent in your application yet!
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How does the hatch accomplish any team game play oriented thing ?
It wastes time in numerous ways.
It encourages players to survive at the expense of their team.
It provides a ######### training experience for new survivors that must be undone later in their lifecycle.
it does make a neat sound when kicked closed. So, that would be sad to see gone.
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The devs are fine with players stuck twiddling their thumbs while bleeding out over 4 minutes
This is the problem the "Mori Update" is set to fix, bHVR is working on it.
You are very very impaitient.
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It’s literally the only reason they slug at the end. No hatch, no slug. It’s pretty logical.
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Wouldn't those killers still slug for 4k if they didn't want to risk the last survivor opening a gate ?
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so, say we were to remove hatch right
what option does that last survivor have other than hiding? its already boring enough having a Survivor hide for 2 minutes after closing the hatch. Now imagine that but without any timer other than the match ending after an hour
This was an issue before End Game Collapse was a thing, and hatch would only spawn if at least 2 gens were repaired. Luckily I never experienced a SUPER long game but 30+ minute games were very common during this time because the last Survivor would simply refuse to do anything, and you cant blame them since attempting to do anything would simply get them killed
@Blueberry this applies to your reply as well
Post edited by Shroompy on0 -
Tbh the finishing mori was a terrible idea. Basekit unbreakble is fine because it'd only really make a difference against killers who abuse slugging.
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If hatch were to be gone the end game would have to get a complete redesign.
Because if the hatch is just removed and nothing else is changed how is the match supposed to go once only two survivors are left? Only if the last gen is about to pop or if the gates are on literal opposite sides of the map and the killer does not have high mobility is there any point in continuing the match. In all other cases it will automatically result into a 4k or a situation bordering on holding the game hostage.
Also what HugTheHag said above.
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I guess we’re assuming if hatch was removed they’d change it to auto powering gates?
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That's fair.
But I still think, especially if the gates were auto opened, that there would still be slugging because otherwise it'd be a "free escape". Especially since it would be easier to track the gate than find hatch, so I don't think it would be better, honestly.
That would just be removing hatch to put an equally controversial endgame that would not disincentive slugging.
However, that's just my opinion =)
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I mean if we were assuming gates auto powered or open without hatch then yeah I agree we’d have the same issue. I guess I was assuming them not making that.
It’s a tough issue to fix. I don’t like the hatch mechanic and a lot of people also don’t like being slugged for the 4K but all the alternatives have their own issues.
Gates powered/opened instead would cause the same issue. However not powered would basically mean the last survivor has no chance of getting the gen done so they’d just hide indefinitely. To be clear I don’t think there’s any “good” solution, maybe just trying to find the least bad.
what would you propose?
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IIRC Dowsey straight up couldn't get matches with Twins at one point because MMR kept searching for people on his skill level
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If it means no more future hatch challenges, absolutely.
Also off topic, and I'm absolutely sure this was discussed in the past, but why isn't it that after each survivor death, the required number of gens to complete isn't equivalent to the number of survivors still alive -1? Would that be something too easily abusable, or would it help incentivize those still in the trial to keep working towards their goal in the event of early death or DCing?
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Hatch got nerfed to oblivion thanks to whiny killer mains constantly crying about it (DH and COH anyone?).
Its a shadow of what it used to be. Just remove it and keys, they're practically worthless now anyway.
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Yah...
solve one fundamental problem here and create 3 more.
Maybe remove the hatch and reduce generator completion time by 25% for each survivor that is dead.
So last gen takes about 25 seconds(unaltered).
Maybe that would motivate the last survivor to play stealth and try to get it done and out.
I don't want to cripple either group, but I'd like to see a day where relic/annoying mechanics are removed.
The downside to survivors thinking the hatch is a way out in a game that shines when teamwork is at the forefront are too many.
In my opinion.
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That would just make Survivors want to actively let the first Survivor die to get the 25%, thats a HUGE bonus right there. Also 25 seconds is still too long for just 1 gen.
The hatch is fine enough as is, doesn't need any changes.
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The hatch race, and the exit gate gamble afterwards, are BOTH in the killer's favor anyway.
The killer doesn't have to stay out of sight, hide their scratch marks and pools of blood. Many killers have incredible mobility, and some can even teleport across the map and backtrack if they hear it while traveling.
Remove the hatch? Sure. But then disable all killer powers and boost the 110% movespeed killers to 115%.
If the randomness of the hatch is to be removed, then so should the difference in killer powers (some can EASILY guard exit gates with their powers). It can't be one-sided.
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Well, its okay to disagree.
I think the hatch is bad for match to match play and for survivor conditioning. I agree its fine for individual play, its the unintended consequences of its presence that I'm not enjoying, from either side.
As an aside I said 25 seconds unaltered. Perks+items are still available to adjust that number.
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I mean when it comes to higher level play, hatch is only seen as a last resort and is only taken in consideration when there really are no other options. Removing the hatch wont remove Blendettes hiding in corners all game.
The Hatch and EGC have one goal: To end a game, thats it. Also if youve brought down Survivors to where the only option the last one has is the hatch, how is that not a win? A 3k is more than enough and its not like youre missing out on much.
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I wasn't thinking in a win sense.
I find that when playing solo queue a lot of players will not understand, or maybe accept is a better word that we must do the generators and attempt to all escape.
It is acceptable to sacrifice yourself to allow others out, and such a decision does have good game play results(you could sac 1 to 3 out).
But refusing to engage with the game while your team attempts to do the above with the vague notion that hatch is a thing you might find, is extremely frustrating from a survivor POV. I honestly believe, or maybe hope that remove the possibility would encourage people to try to work together.
Killer wise, half the time once the rushing around the map is over, I'm done engaging, whoever is left can leave.
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Lol what?
Okay so first of all the hatch is in their favor because if you got to that point you already lost the game in the first place. It's supposed to be in their favor because you technically already lost, the games just being nice and still giving you a freebie second chance. You shouldn't be asking why the hatch is in their favor, you should be asking why you get a hatch mechanic period. You lost. This would be like losing a soccer game and then complaining that you got a participation trophy when in reality you should be lucky you got anything period when you lost and were supposed to get nothing.
Second on the point of the gate, no, that's not correct. It's more of a 50/50 on whether you get the close gate spawns or the far gate spawns. I'd even go as far as to argue it's realistically more of a 60/40 for survivor as it usually even favors them more often if played correctly. Also, same as the hatch point, it should be in the killers favor, you lost. This is ungratefully complaining about a second chance that wasn't earned.
Survivor should be grateful they get either of these mechanics as they are multiple freebie second chances after losing for no reason.
Should we even get into the 4% yolo off hook chance for a third freebie chance for no reason?
The equivalent of this for killer would be like if he got destroyed and the survivors were going to 4 man escape but right as the fourth guys about to run out he gets an RNG chance of the gate blocking him from escaping and he has to try for the other gate. Does that sound stupid? It does to me. That's basically what survivors are getting. A free second chance for the other side after they lost.
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Hatch is not a win. Get out of here with "the game gives survivors a freebie."
Killers get 10,000 freebies a day everytime 4 random solos queue up.
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Hatch is an escape. That's a personal win. So if that gate blocking example I gave didn't give MMR you'd be okay with that being added? That's basically what you're implying.
Go ahead, list the freebies killers get. I'll wait.
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Hatch was introduced purely as a means of ending the game. Because when there was no hatch, there was alot more survivors hiding when the game was deemed unwinnable. And it created a stalemate where the game simply turned into hide and seek. Removing hatch would just create this same issue. And it wouldn't stop slugging, because the exit gates still exist and if killers don't want survivors escaping via hatch then I can't see why they'd want them escaping via exits either.
When I started playing, hatch would appear based on how many gens vs how many survivors were left. I would be on a gen and a team mate would run up and wave for me to follow them. They'd lead me to hatch where the other 2 survivors were and all 4 of us would leave. Hatch is finally in a good place now. It's not a free escape for 4 survivors, it's literally just a means of ending the game. These games where team mates hide for hatch are few and far between. I play solo survivor and hatch plays are the least of my worries. If there was no hatch, these same survivors would bring Wake Up or Sole Survivor and make exit gate plays.
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Keep waiting. The devs don't seem to mind.
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Survivors waste players time, good.
Killers waste players time, bad.
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Basekit Unbreakable and the Finisher Mori were never meant to be implemented yet. The PTB was a test to see if people liked it and from what I could see the majority of feedback was negative. Someone abusing it wasn't the reason it wasn't added, it wasn't added because it never was supposed to be implemented yet.
It's probably still coming, just not for awhile because it's a massive shift in how the game plays that they can't just add it in suddenly. And they probably won't do anything to address slugging for the 4k until then because there is no point in adding a fix that is just going to become obsolete when FInisher Moris are added.
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And how would that be supposed to work?
5 gens, 4 survivor alive -> first death -> instantly 3 gens get automatically done because 3-1=2?
Who determines which gens get automatically finished? The ones with progress? Spread across the map or clumped on one side or the ones closest to the middle?
And you cant see how this wouldn't be abusable or what a horror this would be to balance/implement?
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Thank you for the explanation. That's a very fair point.
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Honestly I'm right there with you on the "there's no better solution" squad !
I actually like how the hatch works currently. It's no guarantee for any side, but also, I think the best thing about the hatch is that it plays a social function by creating a nice gesture that people can bond over, giving hatch, which soothes some of the frustrations and reminds everyone that the people on both sides are actual players and not bots. It's something that other pvp online games lack and part of the reason why, when playing casual, most people you'll encounter are actually quite chill. It's the little things.
If I had to think of a rework on the spot, I honestly don't know. Nothing I can think of has no incentive for killer to slug for the 4K.
(A "drop dead from blood loss" key when slugged as the second to last survivor would be a grand solution, that way you can do the equivalent to giving up on hook for your teammate to get hatch)
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